[Legendary Games] Announcing Legendary Games


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Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

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The Legendary Games website is now live!

Come on in, and Make Your Game Legendary!

Welcome to Legendary Games!

Legendary Games is an all-star team of authors and designers, coordinated by Clark Peterson of Necromancer Games, Inc. Legendary Games uses a cooperative, team-based approach to bring you, the Paizo fan, the best expansion material for your Pathfinder game. We are gamers and storytellers first, and we believe that passion shows in our products.

To deliver on our commitment to bring you—the busy Pathfinder GM or player—the absolute best third party support for your Pathfinder campaign, we’ve assembled an amazing team of current gaming authors and designers so you can feel comfortable that Legendary Games products will be the most creative, rules-legal, and well-designed content you can find.

And let me be the first to announce the Legendary Games Design Team: Neil Spicer, Jason Nelson, Clinton Boomer, Greg Vaughan and Robert Lazzaretti. And me, too. ;) It is an amazing group we have, and we look forward to bringing you the best Third Party material for your Pathfinder game!

Welcome, also, to the Legendary Games website! Use the link above. Take a look around. Visit the Products page and the sub-page for the Adventure Path Plug-Ins product line (make sure to visit both pages). Read about the team members on the About page and have some fun on the Links page. And of course check out the latest News.

What, you say! No mega-dungeons on your immediate release schedule? No 12-volume boxed set campaign settings? Nope. Not out of the chute, anyway. Times have changed since the beginning of 3E and we have to change with them. At the release of 3E back in 2000, Wizards made the books, we made the adventures. But as you may have noticed, in the new era Paizo makes amazing adventures–frankly, written by many of the Legendary Games Design Team members. The “space” for Third Party Support is just different, and so too are our products. But we still have that same commitment to the fun of gaming, a passion for our products, and good old fashioned classic gaming ideals.

Are products ready yet? No, but very soon. Well then, why announce now? Because PaizoCon is coming up and we wanted the fans to know what we had in store so that we could answer your questions. Expect products by the end of the month.

We appreciate you checking us out. Paizo is supported by a good number of excellent third party companies, companies with which we are friends. We believe we bring something unique to the table and hope you all enjoy what we have to offer!

See you all at PaizoCon! And let us help you Make Your Game Legendary!

Clark Peterson, Legendary Games

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Legendary Games products will be available at Paizo.com and also through DTRPG and its affiliates!

So keep an eye out here at Paizo.com for more from Legendary Games!

Dark Archive

And it begins.

This sounds interesting

Tomes of Ancient Knowledge: A supplement including variant rules for addressing mythos-inspired madness as well as several fully-detailed tomes of unspeakable knowledge and also including horrific mythos spells (and mythos versions of common spells) suitable for any gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign.


Awesome. :-)

Hmm...

Product Page wrote:
Upcoming Product Lines: For news on upcoming anticipated product lines involving epic level adventures as well as set piece encounters based on maps by Rob Lazzaretti, visit us at PaizoCon!

Epic level adventures need Epic level rules. Does this imply you taking a shot at them or are you just anticipating Paizo's version?

Yeah, I know, find out at PaizoCon. Well, I will! Still wanted to ask. :-P

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Killer DM #0664 wrote:
Epic level adventures need Epic level rules. Does this imply you taking a shot at them or are you just anticipating Paizo's version?

Keep in mind that "epic" in this sense doesn't necessarily mean it'll depend on an Epic Level Handbook. For instance, most of the APs cap out somewhere around 15th level. That leaves us plenty of room to develop an adventure with an "epic" feel using another 5 levels or so before we'd need to start looking for Epic Level rules.

That said, if and when Paizo (or anyone else) pulls together an actual set of epic rules, I'm sure Legendary Games would take a look at that and the market for epic level adventures. What the Adventure Path Plug-In line is focusing on is the ability to "widen" your AP. If something's a little short on XP, we'll have side treks for you. If an AP left you feeling a little short, maybe we can jazz it up with something new? Or, if there's the possibility of continuing a campaign, we might tack on a seventh "chapter" to an existing AP. Or, maybe we do a 0-level lead-in to a campaign using just the NPC classes?

There's lots of room to maneuver here. And that's just on the adventure side of things. In the meantime, we'll also be taking a look at additional support material like more properly-themed magic items, monsters, spells, etc. And, obviously, there's the pregen product whereby we're filling the niche left by Paizo opting to drop that section from the APs. Only, we're not looking to do up the iconics so much as give you some really nifty character backgrounds and synergized parties of PCs for you to consider...both as your own PCs or as NPCs to, again, help widen your gaming experience for a particular AP. If you liked the Rival Guide, this product just might be up your alley, but it'll have maximum usefulness by appealing to both players and GMs.

This is the stuff we're passionate about. We've got the writers with the ability to do this stuff up right. And we're basically taking Paizo's APs and cranking up the volume another notch. Hopefully, the neighbors won't complain...too much. ;-)

My two cents,
--Neil

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

Very exciting, gentlemen! Huzzah and good luck to ye.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You have some team there!

Though how they find the time to do this work, work for Paizo and other 3pp I will never figure out, and I know Neil has a day job!


I like what I see. The Adventure Path Plug-Ins is a great idea! Can't wait to see more.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

LMPjr007 wrote:
I like what I see. The Adventure Path Plug-Ins is a great idea! Can't wait to see more.

Yeah they look really cool. Writing material for adventure paths is an awesome idea!

;)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Dragnmoon wrote:
...how they find the time to do this work, work for Paizo and other 3pp I will never figure out, and I know Neil has a day job!

Actually, one of the earliest conversations I had with Clark about Legendary Games involved making sure there'd be equal time for our non-LG work and family life. That includes continuing to write for various Paizo projects...plus whatever else has our focus from time to time (i.e., Greg's work with FGG, some stuff I recently did for TGM, Boomer's novel writing, etc.).

Legendary Games has enough authors to spread these various assignments around so we're not hustling between publishers and missing out on the rest of our life activities. That's very important to me as a husband and father of three. It's certainly a balancing act, but rest assured I'm not going to let myself get over-extended. And I'm sure the other guys feel the same way. Plus, Clark is super supportive of those goals. So, we're all good! :-)


I must say, when I first heard about this I was excited for the author line up, but the product prospect is PERFECT for me and my games too. I look forward to the releases!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Awesome news. It's clear from the material on the Legendary Games website that the plug-ins are meant to be setting-agnostic enough to be useful in many circumstances whilst still retaining a clear link to specific Adventure Paths; in that context, are there any plans to go back and write plug-ins specifically suited to earlier APs? That would be really interesting.

In fact, something I'd love to see would be a GM's guide to an individual AP; there are already Player's Guides, why not GM's guides? For Rise of the Runelords, for example, I'd love to see topics like:

spoilers for RotRL:
  • How to run Rise of the Runelords as a horror campaign; or
  • Karzoug as a red dragon and its effect on the AP; or
  • Ideas for incorporating one or more of the other Runelords into the AP; or even
  • Ideas to replace Runeforge with something else.

I'd buy that. Whether it would be commercially viable is another question!

Speaking of which, you can certainly count me in for a copy of Tomes of Ancient Knowledge. Just what I'm looking for! I look forward to it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Have to say, even with my reservations regarding pdf products, the Adventure Path Plug-Ins is an absolutely cracking idea. One of those 'why has no-one else done this??' questions. Drop in side quests, items, npcs. Exactly what my group have been asking for to round things out. And to get the AP authors behind them, well... sold.


SWAG!!!

Just ordered a shirt and a mug. Soon I shall have...

SWAG!!!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Products are in the pipe and coming on a FAST TRAIN!!!

Also, unlike my fully-employed compadres, at the moment I am... "between opportunities," as it were, so you may see a few more things under the Jason Nelson byline in this first batch, but fans of any or all of the team will have things to look forward to soon enough. :)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

cynarion wrote:
...are there any plans to go back and write plug-ins specifically suited to earlier APs?

Ab-SO-lutely.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd make a "fix" for Serpent's Skull a top priority... :)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Sounds like some great stuff is planned. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some of it.

I was wondering about the epic "continuation adventures" and how those will work without being able to include Golarion content. Since most of the APs are pretty strongly tied to Golarion in one way or another, I would think that an adventure designed to continue beyond the end point of the AP would also ideally tie into some of the world content. Since that's not possible for a 3rd party (unless there's a licensing announcement in the future), I'm wondering how easily these will fit.

I can see fitting the add-on line into the existing APs a lot easier, since they can be tied to a theme, but once plot is added, not having Golarion details and content would be a bigger challenge. For example, if an adventure were to continue Serpent's Skull, it would be a lot harder to do and tie it in without using the Azlanti/Serpentfolk war history. I can see one solution as giving generic renames to things, such as "ruined city of a sunken ancient empire" and "headless serpent god", but that would get unweildy.

I guess I'll wait and see, since I'm sure the crack team from Legendary Games has a workable solution.


I just started running Rise of the Runelords, so I'll be expecting some content chop chop! ;)

I'm very excited to see what comes down the pipe, no matter what you are focusing on. I haven't been disappointed by any of the names on this list.

Thanks Clark for spearheading this thing, and thanks to all involved in advance for the fun of imagining what lies ahead!

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

JoelF847 wrote:
I was wondering about the epic "continuation adventures" and how those will work without being able to include Golarion content. Since most of the APs are pretty strongly tied to Golarion in one way or another, I would think that an adventure designed to continue beyond the end point of the AP would also ideally tie into some of the world content. Since that's not possible for a 3rd party (unless there's a licensing announcement in the future), I'm wondering how easily these will fit.

You've definitely identified a challenge. But I am confident that our authors can handle proper references and that you all--the fans--will know what we are doing.

The Exchange

I would like to see more "sandbox" components for Adventure paths.

Liberty's Edge

looking forward to PaizoCon :)

Liberty's Edge

Are these products all PDF only or will they be print/pdf products?

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Robert Little wrote:
Are these products all PDF only or will they be print/pdf products?

I posted this answer in a different thread:

Clark Peterson wrote:

At first, our products will be pdf. We do have print options and are likely to compile products into print versions. Subsequent product lines will be larger and may include print versions.

You have to understand the economies of scale for these products. Print versions have a huge upfront cost and I am not willing to do subscription model or "pay in advance" model. I dont like the idea of taking people's money in advance. I mean, its a good idea. I'm just not comfortable with it.

Believe me, I'm a gamer and I love a printed product. Which is one of the reasons we will provide a stripped down easy to print version of our pdfs so they can be easily and cheaply printed for the game table. But you also have to provide products that make sense at price points that purchasers are ok with. My hope is that we are on the verge of a reasonable print on demand (I havent really seen it yet, but I hope it is soon) that will alleviate this problem and people can have print versions of whatever they want. That is my goal--choice. I can deliver it electronically, and you can use it that way, print the stripped version or if it is something you want bound or have to have at the game table you can POD it. But that day of reasonable POD hasnt come yet, to my knowledge. We are close, though...

You'll understand more when the products are announced and you can see what we are doing. That will be Monday and then more discussion at PaizoCon.

I hope that helps a bit. So short answer, yes they are pdf only for now.

Clark


From the website:

"...specifically to shine in a gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign, written by authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!"

So why can't you just say "The Carrion Crown Adventure Path by Paizo Publishing"? Saying "...authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!" probably doesn't make sense to many potential customers. It doesn't even explain what AP you are talking about.

Dark Archive

cibet44 wrote:

From the website:

"...specifically to shine in a gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign, written by authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!"

So why can't you just say "The Carrion Crown Adventure Path by Paizo Publishing"? Saying "...authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!" probably doesn't make sense to many potential customers. It doesn't even explain what AP you are talking about.

Cause Carrion Crown AP is a IP most likely and they can't say it.


From Legendary Game websit: "All of our pdf products are optimized BOTH for electronic use on a laptop or netbook or ipad with all the electronic bells and whistles AND also contain a stripped, printer friendly version"

Thank you for this! I will definitely be checking your stuff out when it becomes available!

Er, and by "stuff", mean your product. Not your "stuff".

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Hey Vic, thanks for changing my user description!

Look, now it says Legendary Games AND Necromancer Games. Woot!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Well well well, lookit Mr. Fancypants with his new tagline. Woohoo!


Dark_Mistress should get one too! Her's should say "Trust me, I'm a succubus". :D


Dark_Mistress wrote:
cibet44 wrote:

From the website:

"...specifically to shine in a gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign, written by authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!"

So why can't you just say "The Carrion Crown Adventure Path by Paizo Publishing"? Saying "...authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!" probably doesn't make sense to many potential customers. It doesn't even explain what AP you are talking about.

Cause Carrion Crown AP is a IP most likely and they can't say it.

Well then that will probably be a big problem in marketing the "Adventure Path Plugins" if they can't say what Adventure Path they plug into. Seems weird to have to hint around it and will be even weirder to come up with names for some of the other APs if they do end up making pulgins for each.

What will they call Second Darkness? "The AP that was not very well liked and took place underground."? I would hope this could be worked out between the two companies considering their established relationships. Seem silly and overly cautions otherwise, to me.


Legendary Games wrote:
The Murmuring Fountain: A “set piece” adventure...Provides the party with the possibility of acquiring a spectral “pet.”

Anyone remember Hunter the Ghost Dog from the glory days of Monte's Dungeon-a-Day?!?

A spectral pet sounds super!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
cibet44 wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
cibet44 wrote:

From the website:

"...specifically to shine in a gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign, written by authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!"

So why can't you just say "The Carrion Crown Adventure Path by Paizo Publishing"? Saying "...authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!" probably doesn't make sense to many potential customers. It doesn't even explain what AP you are talking about.

Cause Carrion Crown AP is a IP most likely and they can't say it.

Well then that will probably be a big problem in marketing the "Adventure Path Plugins" if they can't say what Adventure Path they plug into. Seems weird to have to hint around it and will be even weirder to come up with names for some of the other APs if they do end up making pulgins for each.

What will they call Second Darkness? "The AP that was not very well liked and took place underground."? I would hope this could be worked out between the two companies considering their established relationships. Seem silly and overly cautions otherwise, to me.

John Brazier named his line of Kingmaker plug-ins "River Nations" and nobody seems to have a problem with it.

Guess that Paizo isn't prefers to keep it's IP close to the chest while at the same time having no problem with people piggy-backing on it.

Silver Crusade

Oooh Shiny. I like the extra funkiness for Carrion Crown (especially a fix for the trust issue).

Will you guys be at Gen Con?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

FallofCamelot wrote:
Will you guys be at Gen Con?

I won't. Clark and Greg might be. Not sure about Booms and Jason.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Neil Spicer wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Will you guys be at Gen Con?
I won't. Clark and Greg might be. Not sure about Booms and Jason.

Not it. Unemployed gamer is unemployed. :(

I seem to recall talking with Clark recently and he also said he was not.

Dark Archive

cibet44 wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
cibet44 wrote:

From the website:

"...specifically to shine in a gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign, written by authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!"

So why can't you just say "The Carrion Crown Adventure Path by Paizo Publishing"? Saying "...authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!" probably doesn't make sense to many potential customers. It doesn't even explain what AP you are talking about.

Cause Carrion Crown AP is a IP most likely and they can't say it.

Well then that will probably be a big problem in marketing the "Adventure Path Plugins" if they can't say what Adventure Path they plug into. Seems weird to have to hint around it and will be even weirder to come up with names for some of the other APs if they do end up making pulgins for each.

What will they call Second Darkness? "The AP that was not very well liked and took place underground."? I would hope this could be worked out between the two companies considering their established relationships. Seem silly and overly cautions otherwise, to me.

Most of them would be pretty easy, SD is likely going to be the hardest one to do. But regardless of the name the blurbs about the product could make it very clear.

Plug and play for a adventure path about world killer asteroid plunging towards the planet, work with elves and infiltrate the foul drow to stop it.

I think most people would know which AP that is for and I am sure Clark and the boys could do a much better blurb than what I just did.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Not to accidentally point out the obvious, but you could reference the AP numbers. Rise of the Runelords was the first AP, so AP1. Or you could go straight to the book numbers. Market your stuff as expansion for Pathfinders #42-47 for instance. Anyone actually running or considering running Carrion Crown would have zero difficulty decoding such a reference since it's explicit but doesn't step on the IP.

Dark Archive

Anguish wrote:
Not to accidentally point out the obvious, but you could reference the AP numbers. Rise of the Runelords was the first AP, so AP1. Or you could go straight to the book numbers. Market your stuff as expansion for Pathfinders #42-47 for instance. Anyone actually running or considering running Carrion Crown would have zero difficulty decoding such a reference since it's explicit but doesn't step on the IP.

Yeah but the problem with that, is some people I doubt would know the order of them with out looking them up. Which is only going to get worse as more AP's come out.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
cibet44 wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
cibet44 wrote:

From the website:

"...specifically to shine in a gothic-themed Adventure Path campaign, written by authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!"

So why can't you just say "The Carrion Crown Adventure Path by Paizo Publishing"? Saying "...authors who actually wrote the Adventure Path!" probably doesn't make sense to many potential customers. It doesn't even explain what AP you are talking about.

Cause Carrion Crown AP is a IP most likely and they can't say it.

Well then that will probably be a big problem in marketing the "Adventure Path Plugins" if they can't say what Adventure Path they plug into. Seems weird to have to hint around it and will be even weirder to come up with names for some of the other APs if they do end up making pulgins for each.

What will they call Second Darkness? "The AP that was not very well liked and took place underground."? I would hope this could be worked out between the two companies considering their established relationships. Seem silly and overly cautions otherwise, to me.

Most of them would be pretty easy, SD is likely going to be the hardest one to do. But regardless of the name the blurbs about the product could make it very clear.

Plug and play for a adventure path about world killer asteroid plunging towards the planet, work with elves and infiltrate the foul drow to stop it.

I think most people would know which AP that is for and I am sure Clark and the boys could do a much better blurb than what I just did.

Still seems like an issue to me especially for people who are not intimately familiar with the APs and their themes. Seems like a bit of a hole in the business plan to me. Oh well, I'm sure it will get figured out.

When I first saw "plug in content" I thought it would be just that. Content that slotted right into the AP itself using existing locations and NPCs and enhancing the existing story. Now that I see they can't even print the name of the AP, well that's out the window.

For instance in Curse of the Crimson Throne the story of Rolth the Necromancer gets dropped from the AP with no follow up. A great plugin would be an adventure detailing how to work Rolth back into the AP using actual locations and NPCs from Curse (not vague obfuscations).

Or, even better, in Part 6 of Curse the open sarcophagus of Kusasfa is found beneath Castle Korvosa and "There is no sign of the occupant." A fantastic plug in would be a high level adventure that describes what happened to Kusasfa and maybe working it into the rebellion as he seeks revenge on Ileosa along with his own evil machinations.

I don't see what the big deal is with letting another company utilize the IP once in a while. It's not like Paizo will ever go back and write stories about all these loose ends (nor would I want them to). So instead they are destined to just sit there as loose ends when two companies and hundreds of customers could benefit from true plug ins that wrap some of them up. Seem like a win/win. Whats the down side? Is the back story of Rolth or Kusasfa being shopped for a major motion picture or something?

Dark Archive

Well the downside is IP protection. If they start letting other companies use their IP with out a special license then they could lose their own IP. If they then do a special license then they give up a lot of control over their own IP, since then any company with the license could write about anything.

I don't know a lot about the topic and while to me and I am sure many laymen people it seems like it would be easy to allow. I am sure they have their reasons for not opening up their AP to allow companies like LG from saying something like "For use with Carrion Crown AP". I know LG would love to be able to do that, but with how the current license is worded they can't.

Least the above is my understand from what Clark said to me when we talked about this a few weeks ago. But as I said I don't know IP or laws and such all that well, so this is just my understanding of why.


I think that Clark Peterson, of anyone, is supremely capable of navigating the murky waters of intellectual property and game licensing. I think it is safe to say there is no cause for worry in that regard.

Dark Archive

Dark Sasha wrote:
I think that Clark Peterson, of anyone, is supremely capable of navigating the murky waters of intellectual property and game licensing. I think it is safe to say there is no cause for worry in that regard.

Well Cibet44 was asking why on Legendary Games product page they are not called by their AP their are made for. Which there not currently, the current one is made for Carrion Crown but it called Gothic Adventure Path. I was merely pointing out some reasons why that is likely the case.

Dark Archive

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Dark Sasha wrote:
I think that Clark Peterson, of anyone, is supremely capable of navigating the murky waters of intellectual property and game licensing. I think it is safe to say there is no cause for worry in that regard.
Well Cibet44 was asking why on Legendary Games product page they are not called by their AP their are made for. Which there not currently, the current one is made for Carrion Crown but it called Gothic Adventure Path. I was merely pointing out some reasons why that is likely the case.

That's what I was thinking. I don't have my CC mods nearby, but isn't "Carrion Crown" IP by Paizo?

Also, by using the more more generic Gothic AP, folks looking for, well, a generic gothic AP may be more inclined to include it in their own campaigns.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

joela wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Dark Sasha wrote:
I think that Clark Peterson, of anyone, is supremely capable of navigating the murky waters of intellectual property and game licensing. I think it is safe to say there is no cause for worry in that regard.
Well Cibet44 was asking why on Legendary Games product page they are not called by their AP their are made for. Which there not currently, the current one is made for Carrion Crown but it called Gothic Adventure Path. I was merely pointing out some reasons why that is likely the case.

That's what I was thinking. I don't have my CC mods nearby, but isn't "Carrion Crown" IP by Paizo?

Also, by using the more more generic Gothic AP, folks looking for, well, a generic gothic AP may be more inclined to include it in their own campaigns.

That is really the core of the idea: We want these products to be great to use with the APs, but *also* to be great to use without the APs, so you don't feel like you're missing the point of using them if you're not running the particular associated AP.

Shadow Lodge

Jason Nelson wrote:
That is really the core of the idea: We want these products to be great to use with the APs, but *also* to be great to use without the APs, so you don't feel like you're missing the point of using them if you're not running the particular associated AP.

Which is a good way to play it. They may be optimized for Carrion Crown, but they'd also be good for, say, a Ravenloft campaign.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Kthulhu wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
That is really the core of the idea: We want these products to be great to use with the APs, but *also* to be great to use without the APs, so you don't feel like you're missing the point of using them if you're not running the particular associated AP.
Which is a good way to play it. They may be optimized for Carrion Crown, but they'd also be good for, say, a Ravenloft campaign.

Exactly. A sanguinary torque that transmutes your blood into holy water is awfully handy to have when you're running "Ashes at Dawn," but it'll come in handy in any situation where bloodsucking nightwalkers are raining down on you... :)

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

We work in partnership with Paizo, not as competitors. And we have to be very respectful of their content. The OGL and the Pathfinder license clearly spell out what can and can't be done and we will of course follow that.

Making compatible products presents some interesting challenges. Particularly when, as we do, you care about the company whose products yours are compatible with.

Use of "replacement terms" such as Gothic Adventure Path happen for a couple reasons. First, its the best and cleanest way to handle and be respectful of Paizo's intellectual property. Second, it also supports that idea that our products are not exculsively tied to an adventure path. In fact, all of the "plug ins" for the Gothic Adventure Path would fit in any campaign that was intending to include any gothic thems (for an adventure or a whole campaign). So it meets both those needs.

Here is a funny blurb we put in the front of our products:

Hey, What’s With the Names?

You will see us use phrases such as “Gothic Campaign” instead of title of the most recent Adventure Path. Or you may see us use the names “The Professor” or “The Professor’s daughter” instead of the proper names of specific characters from those adventures. There are legal reasons for this. While we can create compatible products under the Open Game License, we still have to be respectful of certain content that Paizo owns. Because we want to be very respectful of their content and work in partnership with them we use these “replacement phrases” for certain content. Plus, this helps the product have a more general appeal to those who may be running a home campaign that fits the same themes. In any event, we are 100% confident you know what we are talking about and will have no problem making the required connection. So enjoy The Murmuring Fountain in your gothic Adventure Path, set in a small gothic town, helping the Professor’s daughter and cleansing the unquiet spirits in the ruins of the local prison. See, that wasn’t so hard, now was it?


Clark Peterson wrote:
...

Well sure I understand respecting IP but I think sometimes the RPG publishers get a bit carried away with the idea. It seems to me being a bit more open with all this stuff will benefit everyone (see my above post). There are so many dangling threads and seeds throughout anyone one AP that surely allowing another publisher to pick up on some of them in ancillary products by directly referring to them can't hurt. I also understand you want to appeal to non Paizo AP customers but the name of the product right now is "Adventure Path Plug Ins" so I was expecting a bit more synergy with an actual adventure path is all.

I normally don't think of my home campaigns as "gothic themed" or "jungle themed" so if I wasn't running Carrion Crown or Serpents Skull and I saw those replacement terms on a product at a store or on line I'm not sure how the plug in would peak my interest at all.

I'm also a bit concerned about the "replacement terms" watering down the actual product. Lets say I did pick the Carrion Crown plug in but was not running Carrion Crown, would the replacement terms in the product seem bland and uninteresting to me? Calling an NPC "The Professor" is not quite as interesting as using an actual name and using an actual name could distance the plug in too much from the actual AP. Catch 22.

Well if I ever see one of these that interests me I'll pick it up and give it a read through. Just some food for thought...good luck!


Well, you raise a good point, but that doesn't change the fact that under the terms of the OGL license, 3PP products aren't allowed to directly refer to non-Open products. Golarion and the adventure paths aren't Open, from what I understand, so we are not permitted to refer to places, characters, or other objects belonging to said materials. Doing so would be a violation and could be actionable.

It's easy to say "everything should be open", but that's just not how things work.

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