The text itself, in both editions, is "All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half." This isn't descended from a developer ruling. If this is subject to debate or discussion, please start a thread or reference one that has already been something that includes some logic rather than back and forth "yes it is, no it isn't." (Not implying that your question of it it, just trying to nip this sort of thing in the bud and provide a standard).Great summary Howie23.
Can someone give a source for the empower spell ruling? (Always like this, Magic, .2).
Thanks in advance.
Actually in 3.5 you empowered everything rolled as an example:
(XdY+5) x 1.5
In Pathfinder it is:
(XdY x 1.5) +5
It would be (1d6x1.5) +51d6 is the variable potion, and it is the only part that gets increased. The bonus from 1/2 your level is not increased by Empower Spell. Same goes for Magic Missile.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
You got a link or a quote for that?
Basic npcs don't get levels in pc classes either.If the NPC possesses levels in a PC class, it is considered a heroic NPC and receives better ability scores. These scores can be assigned in any order.http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/npc-classes/non-player-characters
I thought you were saying that heroic NPC's are not supposed to get PC class levels. Sorry about that.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Empower has always acted only on the variable component - this is not a change from Pathfinder.
Here's the 3.0 text:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Here's the 3.5 text:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Here's the Pathfinder text:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half.
No change in any edition.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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As i see it, roll damage then mulitply with 1.5. SImple as that...if there is a thing that adds damage like warmage's edge, that does not get multiplied because it is not variable...Very simple.
Yup - it's that simple, and always has been. I don't think anyone's debating how it works, just whether or not it is a change from prior editions.
It is not.
Empower has always acted only on the variable component - this is not a change from Pathfinder.
Here's the 3.0 text:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Here's the 3.5 text:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Here's the Pathfinder text:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half.
No change in any edition.
I thought I saw text(dev FAQ or something) that said otherwise(included the add on number). Oh well the important thing is how it works in PF. :)
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And even the Grab ability was stealth-errata'd in the Bestiary II to NOT include a size restriction as well.There is no size restriction on grappling (only the Grab special ability).
So a halfling monk can grapple and then pin the mighty Tarn Linnorm (size: Colossal)provided he makes his role.
Not quite. The stealth-errata is in the FAQ for the Bestiary, and includes a limit at the same size as the grabber. convenient FAQ link
As i see it, roll damage then mulitply with 1.5. SImple as that...if there is a thing that adds damage like warmage's edge, that does not get multiplied because it is not variable...Very simple.Yup - it's that simple, and always has been. I don't think anyone's debating how it works, just whether or not it is a change from prior editions.
It is not.
Are we comparing SRD with PFSRD? Or 3.5 PHB vs PF Core Rulebook?
The text of this feat HAS changed in the latter. The example which indicated the entire equation (1d4+1) is multiplied was deleted.
Whichever one has the most complete writing from either system. The 3.5 SRD sometimes missed key words from the PHB which would give way to a different ruling, meaning that sometimes the PHB was superior for a rules reference.
In the PHB(page 93):"....For example an empower magic missile deal 1-1/2 times its normal damage(roll 1d4+1 and multiply the results by 1-1/2 for each missile.)"
It is telling you to rolling the 1d4+1 and multiply that, not roll 1d4 and only multiply the 1d4.
Thanks for jogging my memory. I knew I got that idea from somewhere.
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Frequently Unknown Rules (through post 465)
Frequently unknown rules
including summary from: Things you might have missed
FAQs and other Reference Pages:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook FAQ
Pathfinder Bestiary FAQ
Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide FAQ
This is a list compiled by the users of http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards. The contents are those items identified as rules that are often unknown or forgotten, whether these were rules new to Pathfinder, rules that had changed from D&D or SRD 3.5 to Pathfinder, or which have not changed, but are frequently unknown, missed or forgotten. This list avoids taking a position on subjects that are highly debated and irresolvable due to rules conflicts or ambiguity. On the other hand, items that come up frequently, but are easily answerable by a direct reading of the rules, are included, as are both positions if the distinction is easy to explain. It also does not attempt to comment on every possible change. In particular, for Spells and Feats, only those that are extremely common or have wide-ranging impact are included.
The list is ordered by the type of change and then in by the order of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook chapters. Items that fall in multiple areas often appear in both. This list is an ongoing project and is unlikely to ever be complete. If you see something missing, add it.
Change from SRD/D&D to Pathfinder (includes brand new to PF)
Races
1. Elves sleep, but are still immune to magical sleep.
Classes
1. Class Hit Dice changes in many areas. In general, HD are tied to BAB progression.
2. Barbarians rage x rounds/day instead of x times/day
3. Bardic performances no longer based on Perform skill (other than Countersong and Distraction) and the bard can do other things while performing without interrupting a performance, such as cast spells. In SRD/3.5, a verbal performance would be interrupted by spellcasting.
4. Bardic Knowledge is changed. Bards get bonus to knowledge checks and can use untrained.
5. Clerics don’t get heavy armor proficiency, get proficiency with deities favored weapon, and need a feat to turn undead.
6. Fighters can retrain bonus feats.
7. Monk flurry of blows different.
8. Paladin double of smite against some creatures is on first attack only.
9. Caster level for ranger and paladins is class level –3 with a minimum of 1. In SRD, these classes had caster level of class level/2, minimum of 2.
10. Ranger favored enemy bonus applies to attack rolls as well as damage.
11. Cantrips and orisons are at-will
12. Uncanny Dodge changed: character with uncanny dodge is not flat-footed.
13. Wizard specialists can now take spells from their opposed schools, but such spells cost two slots to prepare. All wizards, whether specialist or not, gain abilities at levels based upon their specialty.
14. Wizards can opt to have a bonded object instead of a familiar. A bonded object provides various benefits for use and penalties if unavailable.
Skills
1. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
2. Stealth/Perception changed in multiple ways from multiple skill set in SRD.
3. Alchemical items no longer require CL1 for some items.
4. Blind creatures use Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else prone. Cannot run or charge.
5. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
6. Acrobatics is now used for jumping. Acrobatics is a Dex skill, whereas Jump was a Strength based skill. The speed penalty for speed below 20-feet is reduced to –4 per 10 feet less than 30. The running start needed to require lower DC is reduced from 20 feet distance to 10 feet.
Feats
1. Many Shot and Rapid Shot can now be used together.
2. Dodge applies to all opponents, not just one specified opponent.
3. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm split into a feat tree (Improved and Greater)
4. Grapple works differently. Some highlights: grapplers no longer share space. Ranged attacks into a grapple no longer risk hitting the wrong target. Grappled creatures threaten surrounding squares and can attack into them (at –2 to hit). Effects on AC and sneak attack are debated (see below). Effectively, while changed, grapple is still problematic.
5. Power Attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, and Combat Expertise all different.
6. Track is no longer a feat
7. Far Shot halves range penalty instead of increasing range.
8. Mounted Combat now uses immediate action rather than 1/round language.
9. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
10. Vital Strike feat is a standard action. It cannot be used as part of a full attack, charge, or spring attack.
11. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect. (Note, this appeared with clarifying non OGC text in the PHB that it applied to the full numeric portion. That text did not appear in SRD)
Equipment
1. Spiked chain no longer has reach.
2. Weapon enhancement bonus (the plus portion, not the cost equivalent) overcomes various DR at different DR than just magic. Specifics: +3 negates cold iron/silver, +4 negates adamantine, +5 negates alignment based DR. This ability is not granted for greater magic weapon.
3. Mithral weapons count as silver for overcoming DR/silver.
4. Mithral armor now requires proficiency in original type of armor, not just resulting armor.
5. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.
6. Armor proficiency is not required to wear armor, merely to avoid some penalties to attack rolls and some checks. Some armor has no penalty even if non proficient. Some has no arcane check penalty as well. See masterwork and mithral for examples.
Additional Rules
(none)
Combat
1. Anything that improves attack rolls improves CMB, including weapon feats if using weapon for the special attack.
2. Sneak attack and critical damage applies to many additional creatures, including undead and constructs.
3. Characters can draw a weapon during a charge, but can only charge a single move distance and must have a BAB of +1. If charging a single move distance due to being restricted to a single action (surprise, slow, etc.), charging character must have Quickdraw to draw a weapon in the same round as a charge.
4. Stabilization and death changed.
5. Blind creatures use Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else go prone; they cannot run or charge.
6. Initiative is rolled prior to the start of surprise round for all combatants. In SRD/D&D, surprised characters do not roll initiative until after the surprise round is over.
7. If damage is less due to strength penalties such that damage would be less than 1, the damage in PF is 1 point of non-lethal. In SRD/D&D, the damage is reduced to 1 point of lethal.
8. Sunder can be used as a tactic that is not self-defeating for loot-loving PCs. Minor repair magic, such as mending and make whole, are more useful as a result.
9. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.
10. Per the PF FAQ ruling you gain the benefit of a defending weapon only in those turns when it is used. For a shield, this would require using it for a shield bash.
11. There is no size limit to an opponent you attempt to grapple. In SRD, you can initiate a grapple with a creature up to two size categories larger than you are.
12. Something about CMD. (Language Pending)
Magic
1. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
2. Polymorph school spells have changed. See polymorph spells and specific spells, such as alter self.
3. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect. (Note, this appeared with clarifying non OGC text in the PHB that it applied to the full numeric portion. That text did not appear in SRD)
Spells
1. Many save-or-die and save-or-suck spells have re-saves or more limited effects.
2. Cantrips and orisons are at-will
3. Gate spell changed from 2x level to 1x CL in terms of HD called/controlled.
4. Detect (alignment) spells work differently. They do not detect alignment auras at low hit dice, and can register based upon intentions rather than actual alignment or deeds.
5. Harm spell explicitly cannot reduce hit points below 1, whether the save is made or not.
6. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.
7. Summoned creatures cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that require expensive material components. Expensive material components are typically those that would need to be tracked with a cost of 1gp or more.
8. Protection from evil grants a re-save at +2 and does not automatically suppress ongoing effects.
Prestige Classes, Gamemastering, Environment, NPCs
(none)
Magic Items
1. Magic item creation vastly changed. Note that there are various disagreements about exactly how it works, particularly with reference to prerequisites; those discussions are outside the scope of this document.
2. Magic item creation no longer uses XP.
3. Market Value of Magic Items (Language Pending)
4. Indentification of magic items changed significantly (see detect magic, identify, Spellcraft, and Perception)
5. Scrolls take a standard action, but longer if the spell contained has a longer casting time. (This may have been added in D&D add-on material as well, such as Rules Compendium).
6. A character can make a magic item without being a spell caster through the Master Crafsman feat.
7. Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon struck.
Appendices and Monster Rules
1. Poison rules incorporated into affliction and changed significantly; poison tougher all around.
2. Natural attacks changed. Creature can have multiple primary attacks.
3. Regeneration is simpler. See universal monster rule for regeneration.
4. Templates changed in many ways.
5. Incorporeal creatures take 50% of damage of each effective attacks instead of only being affected for the full amount of effective attacks 50% of the time.
6. Ability damage results in a penalty for every full –2 damage. The result of such penalties are limited in scope depending on the ability. Contrast with ability drain.
7. Ability drain is required before losing benefits from skill points and ability prerequisites required to qualify for feats and prestige classes. Contrast with ability damage.
8. Animals do not gain armor proficiency via any form of trick training. The animal type description text regarding trained for war leaves the discussion as well. Armor proficiency for animals is obtained through feats.
9. Celestial and Fiendish templates, such as used with summon spells, do not advance Intelligence to 3. This reduces communication options related to language.
10. Grab can be used against a target the same size or smaller than the grabber. In SRD, the target must be strictly smaller than the target. (This is published in Bestiary 2, and incorporated by FAQ into Bestiary. See Bestiary FAQ.)
11. Monsters advanced through PC class levels gain bonus to stats. Adjust stats by +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2, distributed in an appropriate way. This substitutes for SRD granting elite array for the same purpose.
Always like this, but frequently misplayed or not known previously
Races
(none)
Classes
1. Inspire courage is free action to continue once having started.
2. Animal companions can be dismissed at will and replaced with 24 hours; note that new companion requires training other than bonus feats.
3. Animal companions gain feats as they gain hit dice.
4. Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear.
5. Sneak attack and other precision damage applies to every attack in a round, not just once per round.
6. Familiars and animal companions can be the target of spells that they can not normally be the target of, such as enlarge person.
Skills
1. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
2. Auto-success on a 20 and Auto Fail on a 1 are not universal to all rolls. They apply only when called out. Typical examples are attack rolls and saving throws. The following are not subject to auto-success/failure: Skill checks, caster level checks, concentration checks.
3. Take 10 on skill check can be used when not in immediate danger or distracted. Do not confuse with Take 20’s restriction from use if there is a negative consequence.
4. Take 20 cannot be used if there is a negative result for failure. Do not over-generalize to apply this to Take 10.
5. If failing on Use Magic Device with a natural 1, you cannot retry for 24 hours.
Feats
1. Ride-by Attack is still a mess.
2. Removed.
3. Metamagic applied to spontaneous casting (bards, sorcerers, etc.) and to class-based spontaneous casting (cleric’s spontaneous cure or druid’s spontaneous summon) take longer to cast. Such spells take a full round action (different than 1 round casting time) to cast if originally a standard action; spells with a casting time originally longer than a standard action take an additional full round action. A sorcerer’s empowered magic missile would take a full round action to cast, and would come into effect at the end of his turn; in contrast, a wizard’s enlarge person (with no metamagic), has a 1 round casting time and comes into effect at the start of the wizard’s next turn.
4. Quicken Spell applies to spells with a casting time of a standard action or a full round action. Some view this as also applying to a casting time of 1 round, such as enlarge person. Expect table variance.
Equipment
1. Reach weapons can be used to attack opponents 10 feet away, but cannot be used against adjacent foes. Various feats and class abilities can make it possible to do so.
2. Animals do not have to be proficient in armor to wear barding, but may have penalties depending on what barding they wear.
3. Carrying too much gear can slow you down and might incur additional AC max Dex limits.
Additional Rules
1. Darkvision is not spoiled by other light sources. (Different in comparison to some pre 3e versions of D&D)
2. Rolling a natural 1 on a saving throw can damage a randomly determined worn magic item.
3. Carrying too much gear can slow you down and might incur additional AC max Dex limits.
Combat
1. Ranged attacks suffer from cover from objects, enemies, or allies. Allies often overlooked. Applies to reach weapons, ranged touch attacks, and melee touch attacks that have reach as well. (Last portion of this is subject to review).
2. Readying an action is a standard action. One can move first, and then ready. The readied action itself can be a standard, move, free, or swift action. (Note: could not explicitly be swift in SRD 3.5; swift was not in the SRD.) Can include 5’ step as part of the readied action if no other movement in either the readied action or prior to the readied action during regular turn.
3. Characters who use the run action lose Dex bonus to AC, and thus are subject to sneak attack.
4. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
5. Characters and creatures can charge a single move distance as a standard action if limited to a single action, such as during a surprise round. This doesn’t mean you can opt to only charge as a standard action if you have a full round of actions available.
6. Coup de grace can be performed against a creature with total concealment, such as invisibility, by using two full round actions.
7. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
8. Withdraw action can be double move. AoO only prevented from first square left.
9. You cannot take AoOs when flat-footed (usually in surprise round or before you have acted in first round) unless you have Combat Reflexes or a similar ability.
10. Ranged touch attacks (rays) and touch attacks can be the object of weapon improvement feats such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, etc., and also benefit from feats such as Weapon Finesse.
11. A character can take only one immediate or swift action per round. Note: Swift and Immediate actions not part of the SRD, but commonly in use. (When does it reset language; language needed)
12. Reach weapons can be used to attack opponents 10 feet away, but cannot be used against adjacent foes. Various feats and class abilities can make it possible to do so.
13. Initiative is a Dexterity check, which is influenced by rules that modify ability checks.
14. When using manufactured and natural weaponry, all natural weapon attacks become secondary.
15. Difficult terrain and poor visibility hamper movement. You cannot take a 5-foot step nor charge in hampered movement.
16. The delay and ready special actions may be taken in initiative. When initiative starts is generally at the determination of the GM/DM. The ability to delay or ready an action outside of initiative should not be assumed and is subject to the individual table or playing group culture.
Magic
1. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
2. Removed.
3. Mutliple magical effcts that increase size do not stack.
4. Wizards learning new spells require time and a Spellcraft check. If the Spellcraft check fails, it cannot be tried again until the wizard gains a rank in Spellcraft. The wizard may Take 10 on the Spellcraft check.
Spells
1. Lesser restoration is a three round casting time. Usually, this means it isn’t used during combat. Potion of lesser restoration is good for in combat, though.
2. Enlarge person has a 1 round casting time.
3. Dimensional anchor has no saving throw, just spell resistance.
4. Harm (moved to item 5 of things that have changed -> spells)
5. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
6. Grease can be used to disarm.
7. A number of spell effects (remove disease, remove curse, knock, etc.) require a caster level check to be successful instead of automatically; this is not universal to all similar spells
8. Summoned creatures attack enemies without additional communication. Communication is required for other tasks or more specific instructions. Different groups may handle specific instructions differently.
Prestige Classes, Gamemastering, Environment, NPCs
(none)
Magic Items
1. Weapons and armor must have +1 enhancement prior to gaining additional enchantments.
2. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
3. Using a wand with a casting time longer than a standard action takes that long to activate. A wand of summon monster I takes 1 round and a wand of lesser restoration takes 3 rounds. But, you have to know to look under the activation section at the start of the wand section to know this.
4. A character can use a wand with a spell on his class list, even if he can’t cast spells yet. For example, a 3rd level paladin can use a wand of cure light wounds.
5. Spells with range of personal cannot be made into potions.
Appendices and Monster Rules
1. Immunity to cold/fire gives vulnerability to opposite. (Developers have indicated future change for this)
2. Elementals are immune to flanking and critical hits.
3. Creatures can often overcome the DR that is needed to hit them (magic, epic, etc.)
4. Fear effects stack or escalate; characters can become more fearful.
5. When using manufactured and natural weaponry, all natural weapon attacks become secondary.
It’s the same between SRD and PF, but PF makes it confused
1. Reach weapons for small and medium creatures have a reach of 10 feet. Despite a diagram that says otherwise, they can still attack two squares on a diagonal.
2. Double weapons are two-handed weapons with special properties regarding two-handed fighting. If a double weapon is used in one hand, only one end can be used. The missing text that clarifies things is that using a two-handed weapon with one hand only happens if it is sized smaller than you or you have an additional rules resource to permit it.
It’s the same between SRD and PF, but PF makes it clear
1. Wizards with prestige classes only get 2 free spells when gaining a level of wizard, not when gaining a level of the prestige class.
2. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. (In 3.5, this was subject to variance.)
Pending Resolution or More Complex than Can Be Dealt With Here
1. Quickened Spell on spells with casting time of 1 round. (see discussion in rules section of forum, here. A line is included that there is table variance on this matter above.
2. What is the interaction between grapple, pin, AC, Dex Bonus to AC, sneak attack? Contradictory rules (particularly when inclusive of condition table footnotes) are contradictory or ambiguous. discussion thread.
3. Defending Weapons resolved by FAQ
4. The arcane topic of dragon skin armor.
5. The role of Wealth by Level and interaction with crafting, consumables, wizard spell book, etc.
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Here's a couple you can add to your Pending Resolution/complex list.
A) Command Words activating more than one ability on a weapon - Can you have multiple abilities activated by a single command word on one item, and multiple command words on the item to activate powers in different ways (bringing up Frost, Flame, or frost and flame simultaneously for example).
B) Where the rules have not changed between 3.5 and Pathfinder, should the 3.5 FAQ be considered valid until and unless Paizo makes an official ruling in the PF FAQ.
Honestly, I thought both of the above were pretty well confirmed, but apparently there's enough people to argue against them that I got fed up with it and bothered posting them as questionable. I even got told that 3.5 and PF were different games entirely and therefore there was nothing in common between them. Silly me, I thought with Paizo advertizing it as 3.75 back during beta that it was based on 3.5.
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Here's a couple you can add to your Pending Resolution/complex list.
A) Command Words activating more than one ability on a weapon - Can you have multiple abilities activated by a single command word on one item, and multiple command words on the item to activate powers in different ways (bringing up Frost, Flame, or frost and flame simultaneously for example).
B) Where the rules have not changed between 3.5 and Pathfinder, should the 3.5 FAQ be considered valid until and unless Paizo makes an official ruling in the PF FAQ.
Honestly, I thought both of the above were pretty well confirmed, but apparently there's enough people to argue against them that I got fed up with it and bothered posting them as questionable. I even got told that 3.5 and PF were different games entirely and therefore there was nothing in common between them. Silly me, I thought with Paizo advertizing it as 3.75 back during beta that it was based on 3.5.
+1
Normally I wouldn't advertise this, but i agree with you on this MDT
I don't know if this one has been brought up yet, but I see this one all the time...
The Heirloom Weapon trait does not, in itself, meet the prerequisites for Weapon Focus in the weapon chosen by Heirloom Weapon.
Example: Acquiring a MW Falcata through Heirloom Weapon does not meet the prerequisite for Weapon Focus (Falcata). The PC must still acquire Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata) before taking Weapon Focus (Falcata).
Heirloom Weapon
Source Adventurer's Armory 30
You carry a weapon that has been passed down from generation to generation in your family. This heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with this specific weapon and are considered proficient with that specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies.
-Matt
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The oracles curse progresses even if you multiclass, just at half it's normal rate for non-oracle levels.
In the PHB(page 93):"....For example an empower magic missile deal 1-1/2 times its normal damage(roll 1d4+1 and multiply the results by 1-1/2 for each missile.)"
It is telling you to rolling the 1d4+1 and multiply that, not roll 1d4 and only multiply the 1d4.
The confusion with the example is that MM does 2-5 damage which is its variable number. Where Ray of Enfeeblement only has 1d6 as variable and the plus is a static number that increases with level.
Anyways that is why the the Empower issue has been around sense 3.0 days. So it is nice that PFRPG has finally settled that issue.
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Howie23, I see the CMB part in the summary, but not the CMD part.Can someone get me a link to the post, or post number, for what's been missed for CMD, pls? Thx.
I said it here:
Anything and everything that improves attack rolls improves CMB checks. Inspire courage, flanking, charges, bless, Weapon Focus (if the CM in question can be performed with the weapon), everything. Moreover, anything that is subtracted (and a whole bunch of things that are added) to AC impact CMD. For instance, a 1st level barbarian's CMD does not change when she rages, because the +2 Str modifier is exactly cancelled by the -2 AC penalty from the rage.
Not to be overly nit-picky, but a +2 Strength will increase CMD by 1. A -2 AC penalty will decrease CMD by 2.
So they don't cancel out, unless barbarians also get a +2 to Dexterity when they rage (which would be sexy, but I don't think they do get it).
+2 strength modifier = 4 strength. They cancel out.
dotted
Acrobatics use for jumping now hasn't limit distances for jumps by size. The only limit is still not to exceed your maximum movement for the round.This is incorrect. SRD had no limit on size, nor does current edition. Also, in SRD, you could exceed maximum movement, but had next action (in same turn or next) had to finish the jump. A result, in both editions, it is not possible to jump up and attack a creature otherwise out of reach.
Sorry, I mean vertical reach. Pathfinder has no maximum vertical reach by creature size. SRD has it, it's the third table here
Obviously, the difficulty of reaching a given height varies according to the size of the character or creature. The maximum vertical reach (height the creature can reach without jumping) for an average creature of a given size is shown on the table below. (As a Medium creature, a typical human can reach 8 feet without jumping.)
Acrobatics use for jumping now hasn't limit distances for jumps by size. The only limit is still not to exceed your maximum movement for the round.This is incorrect. SRD had no limit on size, nor does current edition. Also, in SRD, you could exceed maximum movement, but had next action (in same turn or next) had to finish the jump. A result, in both editions, it is not possible to jump up and attack a creature otherwise out of reach.Sorry, I mean vertical reach. Pathfinder has no maximum vertical reach by creature size. SRD has it, it's the third table here
Obviously, the difficulty of reaching a given height varies according to the size of the character or creature. The maximum vertical reach (height the creature can reach without jumping) for an average creature of a given size is shown on the table below. (As a Medium creature, a typical human can reach 8 feet without jumping.)
My understanding of Pathfinder RAW has always been that creatures exist in 3D, taking up a cube equal to their size. That is, small and medium creatures exist (for game purposes) in a 5x5x5 cube. Each also has a 5-foot reach, allowing them to reach into all adjacent squares without movement, which includes reaching vertically.
A large creature exists in a 10x10x10 cube and is able to reach 10 feet beyond that in any direction, while a tiny creature exists in a 2.5x2.5x2.5 cube and cannot reach anything outside the 5x5x5 cube it is currently positioned in.
So, both your 2 foot tall halfling and your 7 foot tall half-orc can reach the 10-foot high shelf just the same. Both would need to make the same jump check to reach something at 11 feet (since it is 1 foot outside the reach of both creatures).
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Anything that is +1 per Caster Level, 1d# per Caster Level, or number of ________ (rays or whatever) per Caster Level IS A VARIABLE NUMBER. It is variable based on Caster Level. No diffferent than the D# is variable based on the dice roll. So Paizo's ruling on Empower spell is both wrong, (according to the rules they presented) and makes no sense. The Magic Missile example is actually a poor example, because the +1 is static, but it is one of the only spells that work that way.
I don't mean that disrespectively, but they don't really seem to have a very good grasp of the 3E system sometimes, (which I believe has a lot to do with them wanting to please a subgroup of fans and PFS). Many of their judgements are completely contradictory to the 3E Errata and FAQs which explain why something works the way it does, and often make no sense with what is actually written about the material in question.
Anything that is +1 per Caster Level, 1d# per Caster Level, or number of ________ (rays or whatever) per Caster Level IS A VARIABLE NUMBER. It is variable based on Caster Level. No diffferent than the D# is variable based on the dice roll. So Paizo's ruling on Empower spell is both wrong, (according to the rules they presented) and makes no sense. The Magic Missile example is actually a poor example, because the +1 is static, but it is one of the only spells that work that way.
I don't mean that disrespectively, but they don't really seem to have a very good grasp of the 3E system sometimes, (which I believe has a lot to do with them wanting to please a subgroup of fans and PFS). Many of their judgements are completely contradictory to the 3E Errata and FAQs which explain why something works the way it does, and often make no sense with what is actually written about the material in question.
Pray tell what errata or FAQ about 3x tells us that caster level-based variables are affected by Empower or Maximize Spell. The 3.0 FAQ makes it clear that only the random variables are actually affected. That Pathfinder has continued on with that meaning indicates that they do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the 3e system.
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The confusion with the example is that MM does 2-5 damage which is its variable number. Where Ray of Enfeeblement only has 1d6 as variable and the plus is a static number that increases with level.There is no meaningful difference between 1d4+1 and 1d4+1/2 levels.
They both generate random, variable, numeric ranges - the first between 2 and 5, the second between 2 and 6 (for a 4th-level caster).
This is a weird change that PF made.
I think it's one of those unintentional changes associated with using the SRD. The specific text with example from the PHB is not OGC, so wasn't in the source document. The SRD, on it's own, is ambiguous and can be ruled either way. Jason then provided a non-official forum ruling that is different than the 3.5 PHB.
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Pray tell what errata or FAQ about 3x tells us that caster level-based variables are affected by Empower or Maximize Spell. The 3.0 FAQ makes it clear that only the random variables are actually affected. That Pathfinder has continued on with that meaning indicates that they do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the 3e system.
"Since an empowered spell affects half again as many
targets as its normal version, why doesn’t a 5th-levelwizard’s empowered magic missile fire off more than three
missiles?
Because the Empower Spell feat increases a spell’s variable,
numeric effects. In the case of magic missile, that’s the spell’s
damage, not the number of missiles. A spell such as sleep, on
the other hand, truly affects a variable number of targets: 2d4
HD worth of creatures. An empowered sleep spell affects 2d4
times 1.5 HD worth of creatures."
No it doesn't. The book itself, says exacty the opposite, and has been specifically quoted above with the Magic Missile. You are adding the word "random" to try to make it sound a certain way, but that is not in any of the books or the FAQ or Errata that I see.
As I said, Magic Missle was a poor example, but it shows that the intent was not to be only the dice portion. I'm not going to continue to debate this, though. Not here, anyway.
A variable number is when you have to roll the dice to get the final output. As an example if I use summon monster 8 to get monsters from summon monster 7's list then I can get additional monsters.
If the spells just says X/caster level that is not increased since it is not rolled. It is a set number that is determined by caster level.
Now if a spell said you get XdY/level that would be different since you would have to roll the dice. An example is the fireball spell.
As for PF's empower vs 3.5 they did change so that only dice are empowered instead of the entire result. I covered that in another post recently.
Actualy, basic NPCs get 13,12,11,10,9,8 to their stats...essentialy, a 5 point buy if i'm not mistaken (i think i am)Exactly! This is more for GMs who want to assign class levels to monsters not necessarily converting monsters for PC use. These extra stat modifiers allow GMs to give monsters a decent modifier for classes they may not be optimized for. :)It's meant to basically convert the base monster (pre-racial) stats of 11,11,11,10,10,10 to the Heroic Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) to reflect the fact it's got PC levels now.
basic monsters have 10 or 11 in every stat.
You get their racial bonuses by subtracting 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) from their stats.
Ergo, Ogres, with base 19 Str, have a +8 Str bonus (19-11). Effectively, they don't HAVE a str bonus...they just have the +8 bonus from being size L. Shrink 'em to human size, and they are wusses.
==Aelryinth
basic monsters have 10 or 11 in every stat.You get their racial bonuses by subtracting 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) from their stats.
Ergo, Ogres, with base 19 Str, have a +8 Str bonus (19-11). Effectively, they don't HAVE a str bonus...they just have the +8 bonus from being size L. Shrink 'em to human size, and they are wusses.
==Aelryinth
Yep, and if you give an Ogre a level of Warrior, you make the NPC array adjustments to it's stats. If you give him a level of Fighter instead, you give it the elite npc array instead. Which can make an Ogre really really nasty.
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Yep, and if you give an Ogre a level of Warrior, you make the NPC array adjustments to it's stats. If you give him a level of Fighter instead, you give it the elite npc array instead. Which can make an Ogre really really nasty.
basic monsters have 10 or 11 in every stat.You get their racial bonuses by subtracting 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) from their stats.
Ergo, Ogres, with base 19 Str, have a +8 Str bonus (19-11). Effectively, they don't HAVE a str bonus...they just have the +8 bonus from being size L. Shrink 'em to human size, and they are wusses.
==Aelryinth
I also get pretty nasty when I miss a meal after a workout... Things get ugly fast.
Yep, and if you give an Ogre a level of Warrior, you make the NPC array adjustments to it's stats. If you give him a level of Fighter instead, you give it the elite npc array instead. Which can make an Ogre really really nasty.
basic monsters have 10 or 11 in every stat.You get their racial bonuses by subtracting 10 (if even) or 11 (if odd) from their stats.
Ergo, Ogres, with base 19 Str, have a +8 Str bonus (19-11). Effectively, they don't HAVE a str bonus...they just have the +8 bonus from being size L. Shrink 'em to human size, and they are wusses.
==Aelryinth
I also get pretty nasty when I miss a meal after a workout... Things get ugly fast.
Same thing happens after Taco Tuesday, but for very different reasons.
Not disagreeing with you here; game mechanics often run counter-intuitively. However, would your Small or Medium sized character be able to reach the side and corner cubes above the ones adjacent to him? Or is that a ten-foot reach, and they can only reach cubes that intersect with a side as opposed to an edge of their cube?
Reach, for most purposes, is treated as movement, especially in regards to 5 foot reach/movement. If you could get there with a 5-foot step, you can get there with a 5-foot reach. The only exception seems to be 10-foot reach (which is called out as an exception to the reach=movement rules).
How about: clothing is no longer explicitly excluded from total weight for encumbrance.
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How about: clothing is no longer explicitly excluded from total weight for encumbrance.
"How will I ever carry this pack?! My shirt and pants already weight 3 pounds!"
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How about: clothing is no longer explicitly excluded from total weight for encumbrance."How will I ever carry this pack?! My shirt and pants already weight 3 pounds!"
We can add to the often forgotten rules:
- each spellbook weight 3 lbs and you need it to memorize spells.There is a tendency to "forget" that by player that use the 7 strength wizard.
And a bag of holding has specific weight even empty:
Bag Bag Weight
Type I 15 lbs.
Type II 25 lbs.
Type III 35 lbs.
Type IV 60 lbs.
Heavy Spellbooks. That's the whole reason Wizards learn Ant Haul, right? :)
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Magic missile does 2-5 damage, that is the random numeric value per missile. The '1' is no more 'always there' than the '2' is.
Nope.
A magic missile does 1d4+1 damage. The 1d4 portion is a random variable and the +1 is a constant. Since the +1 portion is constant and not a random variable it is not multiplied by the 1.5 for the Empower feat.
It's already been ruled that way here anyway: Click me.
One thing that really helped me was the PF 3.5 conversion PDF.
For example, page 7 (which is about rogues) lists this:
"Note?that?the?rogue?sneak?attack?ability?now?functions?
against?most?constructs,?plants,?and?undead.?It?does?
not?function?against?oozes,?elementals,?and?incorporeal?
undead.?See?page?68?for?more?information."
Just imagine the ?s are spaces.
This may fall under the genereal 'polymorph spells have changed' rule, or the general 'save or suck spells' listing, but one we only recently stumbled upon...
Baleful Polymorph no longer has an instantaneous duration, but instead a permanent duration, and thus, can be dispelled normally.
More that I just learned about the acrobatics skill:
Now you can only make a soft fall if you deliberately jump down.
If you fail the acrobatics check to move through an enemy-occupied square you don't stop, you provoke an AoO, but nothing says you don't keep moving.
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Doubly irritating is that this isn't in the FAQ, or errata.
Which is why we also have the FAQ/Errata thread. I have posted a summary of the issue there. Please move additional debate on the topic to another thread.
Edit: I have started thread for additional discussion In This Handy Link.