What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Some call me Tim wrote:
I got another one to add: Pathfinder did away with body slot affinities for magic items. If you want that Codpiece of Alluring Charisma that takes up a belt slot nows your chance to avoid the 50% markup.

I believe I just tripped over a passage indicating that the body slot affinity is still in, just after the Crafting Wondrous Items section in the core book. I'm at work and do not have the text at hand.


The damage done by falling objects is much, much more reasonable in Pathfinder compared to in 3.5 D&D.


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hogarth wrote:
The damage done by falling objects is much, much more reasonable in Pathfinder compared to in 3.5 D&D.

So it takes a dense, colossal object falling from 150+ feet to deal 20d6 damage?

And there is no way to do more damage than that?

That's cool I guess.


Ravingdork wrote:
So it takes a dense, colossal object falling from 150+ feet to deal 20d6 damage?

I have a sneaking suspicion that there's a "yo mama" joke lurking in there somewhere, just waiting to get out...

;-)


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Yo mama so fat, when she falls 150', she does 20d6 damage. Oh snap.


Cartigan wrote:
Yo mama so fat, when she falls 150', she does 20d6 damage. Oh snap.

And dense. Don't forget dense.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Evasion and Pursuit Rules:

In round-by-round movement, when simply counting off squares, it's impossible for a slow character to get away from a determined fast character without mitigating circumstances. Likewise, it's no problem for a fast character to get away from a slower one.

When the speeds of the two concerned characters are equal, there's a simple way to resolve a chase: If one creature is pursuing another, both are moving at the same speed, and the chase continues for at least a few rounds, have them make opposed Dexterity checks to see who is the faster over those rounds. If the creature being chased wins, it escapes. If the pursuer wins, it catches the fleeing creature.

Sometimes a chase occurs overland and could last all day, with the two sides only occasionally getting glimpses of each other at a distance. In the case of a long chase, an opposed Constitution check made by all parties determines which can keep pace the longest. If the creature being chased rolls the highest, it gets away. If not, the chaser runs down its prey, outlasting it with stamina.

I dunno if it existed in v3.5 (I'm thinking not), but I find this little tidbit in the "Other Rules" chapter is often overlooked by the groups I've played in.

I've been in a number of chases where I certainly would have won had we been using these rules.

Dark Archive

Critzible wrote:
I don"t know if any one has posteed this, but the other day reading through my core rule book under DRUID! I found a hidden gem, in the description under weapon profiencies i see no mention that taking no druid weapons no longer causes a loss in the druids spellcasting or special abilities, though the armor restrictions still apply!

that was a 3E -> 3.5 change


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I just discovered this for the first time: Non-rogues can now find magical traps and traps with a 20+ Search DC (or in this case, Perception DC) in Pathfinder.

It used to be that ONLY rogues could find (and disarm) magical traps or traps with search DC 20+.

Note: Even in Pathfinder, ONLY rogues can disarm magical traps via mundane means.

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Ravingdork wrote:
hogarth wrote:
The damage done by falling objects is much, much more reasonable in Pathfinder compared to in 3.5 D&D.

So it takes a dense, colossal object falling from 150+ feet to deal 20d6 damage?

And there is no way to do more damage than that?

That's cool I guess.

Considering that in 3.5 a large dire bear falling 10 feet would deal 40d6 of damage, yes, it is.

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Ravingdork wrote:
Note: Even in Pathfinder, ONLY rogues can disarm magical traps via mundane means.

Not *quite* true. The skill description says only if you have the trapfinding ability (which rogues have). If you can find yourself some other PrC/archetype/whatever that grants Trapfinding, you can do it just like a rogue.


Jiggy wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Note: Even in Pathfinder, ONLY rogues can disarm magical traps via mundane means.
Not *quite* true. The skill description says only if you have the trapfinding ability (which rogues have). If you can find yourself some other PrC/archetype/whatever that grants Trapfinding, you can do it just like a rogue.

I believe that amounts to just the Trapper archetype of Ranger.


Serisan wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Note: Even in Pathfinder, ONLY rogues can disarm magical traps via mundane means.
Not *quite* true. The skill description says only if you have the trapfinding ability (which rogues have). If you can find yourself some other PrC/archetype/whatever that grants Trapfinding, you can do it just like a rogue.
I believe that amounts to just the Trapper archetype of Ranger.

And the detective bard.

Liberty's Edge

Serisan wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Note: Even in Pathfinder, ONLY rogues can disarm magical traps via mundane means.
Not *quite* true. The skill description says only if you have the trapfinding ability (which rogues have). If you can find yourself some other PrC/archetype/whatever that grants Trapfinding, you can do it just like a rogue.
I believe that amounts to just the Trapper archetype of Ranger.

Sandman (bard archetype) and urban ranger (ranger archetype) both get it as well. There's also the Pathfinder delver PrC, which gets the even better master explorer ability, aka trapfinding ++.


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I don't think this one has been mentioned yet, and it's something I never noticed before (or if I did, I promptly forgot):

Monk fast movement does not stack with the bonus speed granted by expeditious retreat, haste or other effects that grant an enhancement bonus to move speed. Barbarian's fast movement, however, does stack, as explicitly stated in the class ability and because its bonus is untyped.

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Doting for sure.

i'm definitely telling my druid friend that she can swap out her gorilla for something cooler.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Detect evil says "Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell."

Oh wow. Farmer Bob (6th-level commoner) who my inquisitor detected as good yesterday, now detects evil today because he is intent on murdering his neighbor who slept with his daughter.

Liberty's Edge

If he's the kind of person to use murder as a first resort to solve his problems, chances are slim to none that he ever detected as good. A better example would be a neutral rogue who intends to deceive the party in some way or another. Deceit is evil, but the paladin's smite won't work because he's neutral.

I usually run the paladin detect slightly differently - a paladin who uses it gets to find out whether his smite will work. But that's not RAW.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lyrax wrote:

If he's the kind of person to use murder as a first resort to solve his problems, chances are slim to none that he ever detected as good. A better example would be a neutral rogue who intends to deceive the party in some way or another. Deceit is evil, but the paladin's smite won't work because he's neutral.

I usually run the paladin detect slightly differently - a paladin who uses it gets to find out whether his smite will work. But that's not RAW.

Not going to debate the matter here, but deceit is not inherently evil, not unless you think every parent who lies to their children about Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are evil.


You can't trip flying creatures in Pathfinder. Listed under trip description.

In 3.5, you could trip them. They get stalled condition and drop.

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Ravingdork wrote:
Not going to debate the matter here, but....

If you're not going to debate the matter, then don't.


Enhancement penalties to stats affect a person with a 13 in a state the same way they do a person with a 12 (until they hit 0 anyway)

For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.


So I looked at blasphemy and holy word yesterday. Now they require saves to avoid the effects! Previously that just applied to the banishment effect.

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Ravingdork wrote:

The Evasion and Pursuit Rules:

** spoiler omitted **

I dunno if it existed in v3.5 (I'm thinking not), but I find this little tidbit in the "Other Rules" chapter is often overlooked by the groups I've played in.

It was in there DMG p20, it seems a direct copy & paste.

Evasion & Pursuit in the 3.5 SRD

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Enhancement penalties to stats affect a person with a 13 in a state the same way they do a person with a 12 (until they hit 0 anyway)

Maybe I am missing something, but why wouldn't most people not know that it would affect a 13 the same way as a 12?

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DigitalMage wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Enhancement penalties to stats affect a person with a 13 in a state the same way they do a person with a 12 (until they hit 0 anyway)
Maybe I am missing something, but why wouldn't most people not know that it would affect a 13 the same way as a 12?

In 3.x if you had 13 constitution losing 1 point of CON had no effect on your HP as your CON was reduced to 12 and you still had the same modifier, while if you had CON 12 losing 1 point did mean that your current value was dropped to 11 (will all the relevant effects of hving

CON 11 instead of 12) and you would lose 1 hp/level.

Now you lose 1 hp level (an 1 from CON related bonuses) when you lose 2 whole point of constitution, independently from the initial value.


Diego Rossi wrote:
DigitalMage wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Enhancement penalties to stats affect a person with a 13 in a state the same way they do a person with a 12 (until they hit 0 anyway)
Maybe I am missing something, but why wouldn't most people not know that it would affect a 13 the same way as a 12?

In 3.x if you had 13 constitution losing 1 point of CON had no effect on your HP as your CON was reduced to 12 and you still had the same modifier, while if you had CON 12 losing 1 point did mean that your current value was dropped to 11 (will all the relevant effects of hving

CON 11 instead of 12) and you would lose 1 hp/level.

Now you lose 1 hp level (an 1 from CON related bonuses) when you lose 2 whole point of constitution, independently from the initial value.

As far as I can see there's no difference between the two.

If you have 13 in a stat and lose 1 point, you'll end up with 12 and no change. If you lose 2 you'll have 11 and you lose 1 modifier.

You can't compare losing one and two points, because losing two points will always lower your modifier, while losing one point might (depending on whether you have an even or odd value).

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Leonal wrote:

As far as I can see there's no difference between the two.

If you have 13 in a stat and lose 1 point, you'll end up with 12 and no change. If you lose 2 you'll have 11 and you lose 1 modifier.

You can't compare losing one and two points, because losing two points will always lower your modifier, while losing one point might (depending on whether you have an even or odd value).

But as ability damage works in PF, if you have a 12 and lose 1 point, your modifier does not change.


Ravingdork wrote:

Detect evil says "Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell."

Oh wow. Farmer Bob (6th-level commoner) who my inquisitor detected as good yesterday, now detects evil today because he is intent on murdering his neighbor who slept with his daughter.

Maybe? I'd call a crime of passion more CN. We're only human.

Depends on the method, I think. I he just flies into a rage at the news, it might not be evil... if he waits and plans a cold-blooded action... probably evil.


Leonal wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
while losing one point might (depending on whether you have an even or odd value).

That's the point, losing 1 point don't depend on odd or even value, if you lose one point you lose nothing even if your caracteristic value is even at the begining.


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Let us phrase it this way:

In pathfinder, unlike in 3.5, ability damage applies a penalty of 1/2 the ability damage (rounding down), irrespective of the ability score being affected. 4 strength damage will always result in a -2 to strength related rolls, no matter whether your strength score is odd or even.

In my experience, GMs "get" it faster than players, because the odd/even math was never too tough for players, GMs have to juggle many more statblocks and penalties.


kikanaide wrote:
cibet44 wrote:
InfoStorm wrote:

In 3.5, if you shot a ranged attack into melee and missed by 4 or less, you hit the other person in the melee (often an ally).

That's not in 3.5 to my recollection.
My group played that way as well. Now I'm trying to figure out why.

There was a sidebar, I think it was a sidebar, in one of the DMG about adjudicatig cover. It said that if you miss because of the cover(by 4 or less) you must pit your attack roll against the guy that gave cover in order to see if you hit him.

It also had a few suggest houserules to avoid it.

Humbly,
Yawar

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ryric wrote:
But as ability damage works in PF, if you have a 12 and lose 1 point, your modifier does not change.

Ah! I understand now, well that is crap IMHO. Did 3.5 work like that? Is the PF text perhaps badly worded and the intention was that ability modifiers should drop in line with ability score?

"For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability" is technically not incorrect, every two points will result in a -1 whether your original score is odd or even. However it needs an addendum to indicate that if your score was originally even then even 1 point could lead to a modifier reduction.

Liberty's Edge

Ability damage doesn't subtract from your scores, at least not any more.

It adds ability damage. Your score remains constant.

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Lyrax wrote:

Ability damage doesn't subtract from your scores, at least not any more.

It adds ability damage. Your score remains constant.

I guess if I look at it that way it sort of makes sense, although the character sheet could do with a change to relfect that, i.e. boxes for ability damage to be recorded as well as Temp Adjustment. If you record damage starting at zero then it makes sense to have a every 2 points = -1 modifier.

Liberty's Edge

Having read how PF has changed ability damage I have just noticed another thing! In PF now if your Strength or Dexterity suffers damage equal to its rating you fall unconscious, whereas in 3.5 you would have been Helpless or Paralysed respectively.

There might be times where the difference is important!


DigitalMage wrote:

Having read how PF has changed ability damage I have just noticed another thing! In PF now if your Strength or Dexterity suffers damage equal to its rating you fall unconscious, whereas in 3.5 you would have been Helpless or Paralysed respectively.

There might be times where the difference is important!

You have a quote for that?

PS:I can't even find the rule that says you fall unconscious when your mental ability score is reduced to 0. I am sure it is still there. My search-fu is failing though.

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wraithstrike wrote:
You have a quote for that?

Pathfinder RPG core book page 555:

If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die.

Dark Archive

Inevitables are no longer constructs. I just realized that today when I reread their Bestiary 2 entry.
Oh, and Trumpet Archons are no longer green (which was a change between 3.0 and 3.5, apparently someone confused them with Planetars).


Jadeite wrote:

Inevitables are no longer constructs. I just realized that today when I reread their Bestiary 2 entry.

Oh, and Trumpet Archons are no longer green (which was a change between 3.0 and 3.5, apparently someone confused them with Planetars).

I did not know about that, good catch.


ryric wrote:
Leonal wrote:

As far as I can see there's no difference between the two.

If you have 13 in a stat and lose 1 point, you'll end up with 12 and no change. If you lose 2 you'll have 11 and you lose 1 modifier.

You can't compare losing one and two points, because losing two points will always lower your modifier, while losing one point might (depending on whether you have an even or odd value).

But as ability damage works in PF, if you have a 12 and lose 1 point, your modifier does not change.

Ah yes, I see now. I think I have noticed it earlier, but my group decided to disregard it as it's easier to handle the old way within Fantasy Grounds.


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Create Water now has an additional sentence in it.

This water disappears after 1 day if not consumed.

Imagine the surprised look on my clerics face when he cast Create Water, cast Bless Water on it, and then two days later found out he had an empty flask and couldn't caste Consecrate...


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The elven chain in the armor section is no longer simply mithral chain mail!

While mithral armors are not considered one class lighter for proficiencies (only for other penalties/restrictions) the suit of elven chain IS.

Also to represent this the price of elven chain increased by 1000gp while still being non-magical.

-James


Shouldn't the Cumulative or not Speed Weapons be in the Pending Resolution part of the summary?


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Yar.

The Temple Sword is a monk weapon.

Monks are automatically proficient with it.

Monks can Flurry of Blows with a Temple Sword (even while gripping it with both hands)

Monks still only gain 1x their Strength modifier to damage when doing this in a Flurry of Blows.

Power Attack is based off of Base Attack Bonus and Handedness. NOT how much bonus strength damage you are doing.

Thus a monk two-handing a Temple Sword and performing a Flurry of Blows while using Power Attack will gain the two-handed bonus from Power Attack (-1 to hit for +3 to damage, plus an additional -1/+3 per 4 BaB), while still only gaining 1x their strength modifier to damage.

~P


Having a two-handed weapon doesn't give you a bonus on disarm any more and a light weapon doesn't given you a penalty.


Serisan wrote:
Some call me Tim wrote:
I got another one to add: Pathfinder did away with body slot affinities for magic items. If you want that Codpiece of Alluring Charisma that takes up a belt slot nows your chance to avoid the 50% markup.
I believe I just tripped over a passage indicating that the body slot affinity is still in, just after the Crafting Wondrous Items section in the core book. I'm at work and do not have the text at hand.

Ah, I was mistaken. It's the "adding a second ability to a single item" thing, typified by adding the Ring of Invisibility ability to a Ring of Protection.


Abundant Step still effectively ends your turn


Jadeite wrote:

Inevitables are no longer constructs. I just realized that today when I reread their Bestiary 2 entry.

Oh, and Trumpet Archons are no longer green (which was a change between 3.0 and 3.5, apparently someone confused them with Planetars).

however they are very much like constructs, just without the spell immunity

Constructed (Ex) Although inevitables are living outsiders, their bodies are constructed of physical components, and in many ways they function as constructs. For the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type (such as a ranger's favored enemy and bane weapons), inevitables count as both outsiders and constructs. They are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects, necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). Inevitables are not subject to nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. They are not at risk of death from massive damage. They have bonus hit points as constructs of their size.


Tryn wrote:

Alter Self changed a lot:

** spoiler omitted **

So it's a valible buff spell now, alter self into a dwarf and you get +2 str and darkvision for 1min/lvl

This is false assuming that you are medium size. You can turn small and get the +2 to Dex. I searched long and hard to find this one when my Urban Druid got this ability. It's under the description of Polymorph.

Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature ...

If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

...

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