I'm a fairly new GM, and I have a question that I'd love the community's help with: does a grappled creature get a reflex save when Grease is cast on the ground underneath the grapplers?
Specifically, here's the situation that came up in my game the other day:
a Shambling Mound had grappled the group's paladin using Grab (the Mound has control of the grapple). The group's wizard had Greased the paladin's armor to grant the +10 to the paladin's escape artist/grapple escape attempts. The pally wasn't having any luck squirming out, so the wizard decided to cast Grease again, this time under the shambler. Now, the Grease spell specifically says "any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall." So, the Shambling Mound gets a reflex save and fails. Does the grappled paladin get a save if the wizard only targeted the 4 squares under the Mound? Also, what happens to the grapple at this point? Is it automatically released, as the Shambling Mound falls prone? Does the paladin fall prone too, as he does not have control of the grapple? Should there be a grapple check at this point to see if the Shambling Mound pulls the pally down with it?
We spent a good 10-15 minutes discussing it and I eventually had to pull GM fiat just to get the game moving again, but I'd really love some opinions on this one! Thanks!
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Is it automatically released, as the Shambling Mound falls prone? Does the paladin fall prone too, as he does not have control of the grapple? Should there be a grapple check at this point to see if the Shambling Mound pulls the pally down with it?
This post is my ruling:
No to your first question.
No to your second question...i would rule that the grapple would immediately get released if one side failed a reflex save that would render it prone.
And yes to your third question. I would allow the shambler to try to grab the paladin and bring him down also.
I'm a fairly new GM, and I have a question that I'd love the community's help with: does a grappled creature get a reflex save when Grease is cast on the ground underneath the grapplers?
Specifically, here's the situation that came up in my game the other day:
a Shambling Mound had grappled the group's paladin using Grab (the Mound has control of the grapple). The group's wizard had Greased the paladin's armor to grant the +10 to the paladin's escape artist/grapple escape attempts. The pally wasn't having any luck squirming out, so the wizard decided to cast Grease again, this time under the shambler. Now, the Grease spell specifically says "any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall." So, the Shambling Mound gets a reflex save and fails. Does the grappled paladin get a save if the wizard only targeted the 4 squares under the Mound? Also, what happens to the grapple at this point? Is it automatically released, as the Shambling Mound falls prone? Does the paladin fall prone too, as he does not have control of the grapple? Should there be a grapple check at this point to see if the Shambling Mound pulls the pally down with it?We spent a good 10-15 minutes discussing it and I eventually had to pull GM fiat just to get the game moving again, but I'd really love some opinions on this one! Thanks!
The pally does not have to make a save to not fall prone unless the grease is under him also. Unlike in 3.5 you don't occupy the same square as the grappler.
The paladin would also not be released just because the owlbear failed its save.There is not rule for this, but I would rule the paladin is now prone also.
I would rule that the Shambling Mound cannot go prone as I seem to recall they cannot be Tripped.
I would rule that the Shambling Mound cannot go prone as I seem to recall they cannot be Tripped.
They are not immune to trip.
The pally does not have to make a save to not fall prone unless the grease is under him also. Unlike in 3.5 you don't occupy the same square as the grappler.
I was wondering this also, wraithstrike, so thanks for the clarification! I couldn't conclusively determine whether the paladin would be in the shambling mound's square or not, based on the grapple entry!
You'd think that a situation like this would be covered... or at least can someone in a grapple go prone on purpose to bring the other party prone.
Shamblers can indeed be tripped and go prone. I'm thinking of one of the other Kingmaker critters we fought last session.
I was thinking... can either party in a grapple voluntarily drop prone? If so, does this automatically drop the other part prone? Maybe thinking of it like this would shed some light on how a grappler failing a reflex save on the Grease spell would work?
Yes, you could drop prone in a grapple. No, this would not drag any other party down. While difficult to visualize in most cases it's not impossible.
It is not smart to be prone as both your attacks and AC suffer (in short a -4 to your CMB and CMD). In the case of the owlbear this may help get the person it's grappling get advantage it needs to escape.
I'm afraid the only way this situation can realisticly be studied and a ruling resolved is to observe the dynamics of it in real life.
I'm going to require two women in bikinis and a small swimming pool filled with KY.
I'll let you know what my findings are.
Yes, you could drop prone in a grapple. No, this would not drag any other party down. While difficult to visualize in most cases it's not impossible.
It is not smart to be prone as both your attacks and AC suffer (in short a -4 to your CMB and CMD). In the case of the owlbear this may help get the person it's grappling get advantage it needs to escape.
I can imagine a situation where dropping prone in a grapple would be advantageous, such as when trying to avoid ranged attacks.
Also, who keeps turning that Shambling Mound into an Owl Bear? :p
So if you were grappled, and the grappler fell prone because of grease, you'd remain standing and grappled?
So if you were grappled, and the grappler fell prone because of grease, you'd remain standing and grappled?
Yes. I think I said the opposite earlier, but that was me exercising DM license when I should have been giving a neutral ruling.
Yes, you could drop prone in a grapple. No, this would not drag any other party down. While difficult to visualize in most cases it's not impossible.
It is not smart to be prone as both your attacks and AC suffer (in short a -4 to your CMB and CMD). In the case of the owlbear this may help get the person it's grappling get advantage it needs to escape.
I can imagine a situation where dropping prone in a grapple would be advantageous, such as when trying to avoid ranged attacks.
Also, who keeps turning that Shambling Mound into an Owl Bear? :p
I cast super duper bestow curse on the Shambling Mound. It turns into an owl bear 1/day if it fails its will save.