not entirely sure if this is really worth it for 2 extra dice but does it work?
The general opinion of the boards is: No, doesn't work.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Oh god not again. Simple answer is you don't see those two dice unless you're casting it at 13th level, and by that time you probably have more useful spells to toss out.
Thanks for the replies, sorry if this is a reposted question, i didn't feel like looking for another thread and yea i agree with you Lazar, even if it did work it's not really worth the effort...besides there being better 1st level spells to intensify anyways.
Depends on who you ask, how you read the spell, and how your party handles damage. All things considered, no, it probably isn't WORTH it, but it IS a prickly rules question.
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Downrunner wrote: Thanks for the replies, sorry if this is a reposted question, i didn't feel like looking for another thread and yea i agree with you Lazar, even if it did work it's not really worth the effort...besides there being better 1st level spells to intensify anyways. Intensified magic missle looks pretty awesome... Unless you realise that you can have a fully pimped out standard scorching ray in the same slot t hat's pumping out up to 12d6 fire damage with no reflex save.
im actually looking closer at the feet for magus builds but my curiousity happened to get the better of me because...well...it's magic missle. its a little cheaper on the spell slots for magus to use intensify spell over empower spell....10d6 shocking grasp for a second level spell slot plus a free weapon attack to go with it doesn't suck.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
When you're a 12th and upper level mage, you're not using 1st level spell slots for damage, you're just using them for utility, things like Mage Armor, mount, floating disk, etc.
Im looking at magus...not wizard...things that can be combo'd with spellstrike.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Downrunner wrote: im actually looking closer at the feet for magus builds but my curiousity happened to get the better of me because...well...it's magic missle. its a little cheaper on the spell slots for magus to use intensify spell over empower spell....10d6 shocking grasp for a second level spell slot plus a free weapon attack to go with it doesn't suck. For the same spell slot though you get scorching ray.
Scorching ray is useless with spellstrike unless you take the close range arcana...and even with the close range arcana spellstrike breaks scorching ray because you only get 1 ray out of it.
Magic Missile is works neither with Intensified Spell (no damage dice cap based on level) nor with Spellstrike (not a touch spell or a ray).
And even Scorching Ray just adds 4d6 of fire damage.
Jadeite wrote: Magic Missile is works neither with Intensified Spell (no damage dice cap based on level) nor with Spellstrike (not a touch spell or a ray).
And even Scorching Ray just adds 4d6 of fire damage.
You sir are correct, this thread has gone off topic
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Downrunner wrote: Scorching ray is useless with spellstrike unless you take the close range arcana...and even with the close range arcana spellstrike breaks scorching ray because you only get 1 ray out of it. And if you use spellstrike with magic missle you have the exact same problem however instead of getting 4d6 of damage you're getting 1d4+1 from one missle.
As was previously pointed out, you can't use magic missle with spellstrike.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
There's an arcana that allows it I think, but you only get one missle's effect.
Downrunner wrote: not entirely sure if this is really worth it for 2 extra dice but does it work? Depending on how loose you are with reading the feat it works. No it is not worth it.
LazarX wrote: There's an arcana that allows it I think, but you only get one missle's effect. No. Close Range is limited to ray spells.
LazarX wrote: Downrunner wrote: Thanks for the replies, sorry if this is a reposted question, i didn't feel like looking for another thread and yea i agree with you Lazar, even if it did work it's not really worth the effort...besides there being better 1st level spells to intensify anyways. Intensified magic missle looks pretty awesome... Unless you realise that you can have a fully pimped out standard scorching ray in the same slot t hat's pumping out up to 12d6 fire damage with no reflex save. By raw I am sure it doesn't work if the GM allows it to work it is a pretty decent option for a 2nd level spell. I do allow it for my players, simply because a 2nd level spell shooting 7 magic missiles seems to be fair.
I had a few doubts about scorching ray, but scorching ray isnt nearly that impressive as it appears, it needs attack rolls, which makes it vulnerable for concelament and at best it is more likely to negate damage than score a crit. It deals an average of almost 42 damage against a target you hit on a 2+ and can be critted, magic missile does 24.5 on average, but a more difficult touch AC or concealment drops damage alot for scorching ray also cover or creatures in close combat drop chances of hitting. Also magic missile has superior range and a superior damage type, even more notable because it can damage incorporeal creatures without trouble.
Removed some posts. Please post nicely, thanks!
Downrunner wrote: not entirely sure if this is really worth it for 2 extra dice but does it work? Not as it's worded.
If want to house rule it differently then there are a host of other spells that you will need to decide where, if ever, to draw the line.
-James
Not sure how my posts weren't nice, but w/e
As I mentioned, ask your DM about it. It's subject to a lot of debate, so that's the best course of action.
Downrunner wrote: not entirely sure if this is really worth it for 2 extra dice but does it work? The general opinion of the game designers is that it works. There's at least 3 long threads arguing this and that point of view.
Is it worth it? Generally not without resorting to metamagic efficiency builds and 3.5 classes and feats that cater to magic missile builds. If you're into Arcane Thesis, Force Missile Mage, and possibly Argent Savant, it's worth it.
Otherwise, nope. Although if you got Spell Perfection (Magic Missile), I believe the benefit would double to +10 levels, which would get you to 10 missiles...fun to think about, but you'd need caster level 19 at the time.
===Aelryinth
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The best approach to this I believe is to just re-design the spell, "Magic Missile, Greater" to a higher level spell. put it into a category that would make it compete able with higher levels.
like this:
Magic Missile, Greater 5 Lvl spell - This spell functions like Magic Missile, except For every two caster levels beyond 9th you gain an additional missile to a max of 10 at lvl 19. in addition you add your Int/Cha modifier to each missle.
example a lvl 10 Sorcerer with a Cha of 18 (+4) could cast greater magic missile releasing a volley of 5 unerring missiles each doing 1d4 +4 to a single target or up to 5 separate targets no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart with a range of medium so up to 110FT distance.
if targeted at 1 opponent 25-40 points of damage
if you were a 19th lvl wiz with Int of 25(+7) then you would bust out 10 missiles ranging from 8-11 each for a total of 80-110 to a single target. that is right on par with other spells like cone of cold which is considered weak for 5th level.
This of course would need to be approved by the GM of the House, if this is an acceptable option for the house of course. (this was just a quick make up on the spot, might need a little tweaking, but it is a good base line for a better design)
I see that you guys have answered this for regular magic Missile. My question involves Mythic magic Missile which for those who don't know, is 2D 4 + 1 so would intensified spell give me extra d-4s or would intensified give me extra missiles? PS I understand that this is a really old form and I'm sorry for whoever has to answer this I just can't seem to find an applicable post to answer my question.
o0NAVI0o wrote: I see that you guys have answered this for regular magic Missile. My question involves Mythic magic Missile which for those who don't know, is 2D 4 + 1 so would intensified spell give me extra d-4s or would intensified give me extra missiles? PS I understand that this is a really old form and I'm sorry for whoever has to answer this I just can't seem to find an applicable post to answer my question. In a case like this you probably should of just created a new thread and linked back to this one as a reference. I almost didn't bother to look at your post because I didn't want to look at 30+ posts just to catch up with the conversation (incidently, I stopped reading when I realized this was a necro'd thread).
To answer your question. Mythic magic missle doesn't have an effect that's based on your level that is different from the original spell. It still does flat damage per missle so assuming the metamagic feat does anything at all it would have to increase the number of missles you get.
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