paizo.com Recent Posts in Magus vs. Eldritch Knightpaizo.com Recent Posts in Magus vs. Eldritch Knight2011-06-08T23:39:02Z2011-06-08T23:39:02ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightSoluzarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1442011-08-05T18:06:07Z2011-08-05T18:06:07Z<p>I was considering making a multiclass magus for Carrion Crown.</p>
<p>The idea is to start two levels of magus then switch to wizard for 5 levels then go full eldritch knight.</p>
<p>The magus levels would be for spell combat and spellstrike.</p>
<p>What I am wondering is can spells gained as a wizard be used for spell combat/spellstrike IF the spells being used are on the magus spell list.</p>
<p>I saw the Broad Study arcana. Frankly I question why this arcana requires 6th level to use. It's perfect for dipping. The problem is dipping 6 levels in one class is not feasible at all.</p>
<p>Can this work?</p>I was considering making a multiclass magus for Carrion Crown.
The idea is to start two levels of magus then switch to wizard for 5 levels then go full eldritch knight.
The magus levels would be for spell combat and spellstrike.
What I am wondering is can spells gained as a wizard be used for spell combat/spellstrike IF the spells being used are on the magus spell list.
I saw the Broad Study arcana. Frankly I question why this arcana requires 6th level to use. It's perfect for dipping....Soluzar2011-08-05T18:06:07ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightEnarishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1432011-06-22T03:50:40Z2011-06-22T03:50:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Xenomorph 27 wrote:</div><blockquote> I was hesitant to say anything bad about EK until I received some supporters. Thanks for your comments. Spells 8th or 9th is not too important. I imagine you could get an incredibly high Armor Class with spells buffs and heavy armor with the Magus. </blockquote><p>I'm playing a fighter-1/magus-6/hellknight-1 in carrion crown right now, and his armor is a 27... I select spells like true strike, darkness, and mount in order to use my heavy adamantine plate without running into any spell failure. Long duration all day spells and those without somatic components, along with the still spell arcana, allow me to do very well. After a few ranks in acrobatics, I can cast a spell like defensive shock and just take total defense (which gives me a 33) and spell shield arcana now and then for a 37. Not much hits me.Xenomorph 27 wrote:I was hesitant to say anything bad about EK until I received some supporters. Thanks for your comments. Spells 8th or 9th is not too important. I imagine you could get an incredibly high Armor Class with spells buffs and heavy armor with the Magus.
I'm playing a fighter-1/magus-6/hellknight-1 in carrion crown right now, and his armor is a 27... I select spells like true strike, darkness, and mount in order to use my heavy adamantine plate without running into any spell...Enaris2011-06-22T03:50:40ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1422011-06-21T23:02:12Z2011-06-21T23:02:12Z<p>Not sure why that thread got bumped to 'Advice' when it's basically the same subject as this one, re-done... but that's where it is now...</p>Not sure why that thread got bumped to 'Advice' when it's basically the same subject as this one, re-done... but that's where it is now...ProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)2011-06-21T23:02:12ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1412011-06-21T21:03:36Z2011-06-21T21:03:36Z<p><a href="http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/paizo/magusVsArcaneDuelist&page=1#1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rant on the Arcane Duelist vs the Magus...</a></p>
<p>This will teach me to beware what I type... :p</p>Rant on the Arcane Duelist vs the Magus...
This will teach me to beware what I type... :pProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)2011-06-21T21:03:36ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightSteelfiredragonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1402011-06-21T19:47:25Z2011-06-21T19:47:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">DougErvin wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">ProfPotts wrote:</div><blockquote> I actually think an <i>Arcane Duelist</i> Bard makes a better Magus than the Magus... but that's a rant for a different thread... ;) </blockquote><p>ProfPotts, could you start a thread for Arcane Duelist makes a better Magus than the Magus. I would really like to see your logic.
<p>Doug </blockquote><p>+2DougErvin wrote:ProfPotts wrote: I actually think an Arcane Duelist Bard makes a better Magus than the Magus... but that's a rant for a different thread... ;)
ProfPotts, could you start a thread for Arcane Duelist makes a better Magus than the Magus. I would really like to see your logic. Doug +2Steelfiredragon2011-06-21T19:47:25ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightDougErvinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1392011-06-21T17:33:52Z2011-06-21T17:33:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ProfPotts wrote:</div><blockquote> I actually think an <i>Arcane Duelist</i> Bard makes a better Magus than the Magus... but that's a rant for a different thread... ;) </blockquote><p>ProfPotts, could you start a thread for Arcane Duelist makes a better Magus than the Magus. I would really like to see your logic.
<p>Doug</p>ProfPotts wrote:I actually think an Arcane Duelist Bard makes a better Magus than the Magus... but that's a rant for a different thread... ;)
ProfPotts, could you start a thread for Arcane Duelist makes a better Magus than the Magus. I would really like to see your logic. DougDougErvin2011-06-21T17:33:52ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1382011-06-21T17:25:40Z2011-06-21T17:25:40Z<p>I actually think an <i>Arcane Duelist</i> Bard makes a better Magus than the Magus... but that's a rant for a different thread... ;)</p>I actually think an Arcane Duelist Bard makes a better Magus than the Magus... but that's a rant for a different thread... ;)ProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)2011-06-21T17:25:40ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightAtarlosthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1372011-06-21T01:01:56Z2011-06-21T01:01:56Z<p>I'm definitely for the EK and would like to see a proper fix for it (replace the capstone and possibly make entry easier)</p>
<p>EK has been noted for being able to get seventh through ninth level wizard (or witch) spells at just ahead of 3/4 BAB, but can also outdo the Magus on the other end. It's possible to build an EK on a bard chassis that misses only two BAB until level 20 and makes up the to hit bonus from inspire courage. If a two level Arcane Archer dip were used for martial weapon proficiencies instead of a one level fighter dip it would have the to hit bonus when performing of full BAB all the way to level 20 while still maintaining caster level=character level with the appropriate trait. </p>
<p>That looks like a pretty good deal to me. Both the Magus and Bard rely on a versatile resource to bring their to hit up. EK lets the bard get out the level before Inspire Courage stops keeping pace with BAB but right after grabbing dirge of doom. Spell Recall probably makes the Magus mechanically superior, but for a front line arcanist with illusionist/enchanter tendencies instead of evoker/transmuter it's at least comparable.</p>I'm definitely for the EK and would like to see a proper fix for it (replace the capstone and possibly make entry easier)
EK has been noted for being able to get seventh through ninth level wizard (or witch) spells at just ahead of 3/4 BAB, but can also outdo the Magus on the other end. It's possible to build an EK on a bard chassis that misses only two BAB until level 20 and makes up the to hit bonus from inspire courage. If a two level Arcane Archer dip were used for martial weapon...Atarlost2011-06-21T01:01:56ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightAbraham spaldinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1362014-02-20T18:20:33Z2011-06-20T23:09:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ProfPotts wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote>Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature.</blockquote>The <i>Broad Study</i> Arcana covers that... although you need at least 6 Magus levels (and to already possess at least one level of another spellcasting class) in order to take it, so it kinda' torpedoes any hope of using the Magus as a dip class to gain Spell Combat and Spellstrike for an otherwise Fighter / Wizard / ElK. You could go Wizard 3 / Magus 7 / ElK 10 (to hit a Wizard 12 casting level) I guess, but it doesn't seem like a good idea. </blockquote><p>Yeah the only way I can see it working is a hexcrafter magus with a witch dip.ProfPotts wrote:Poison wrote:Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature.
The Broad Study Arcana covers that... although you need at least 6 Magus levels (and to already possess at least one level of another spellcasting class) in order to take it, so it kinda' torpedoes any hope of using the Magus as a dip class to gain Spell...Abraham spalding2011-06-20T23:09:57ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1352011-06-20T17:41:37Z2011-06-20T17:41:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote>Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature.</blockquote><p>The <i>Broad Study</i> Arcana covers that... although you need at least 6 Magus levels (and to already possess at least one level of another spellcasting class) in order to take it, so it kinda' torpedoes any hope of using the Magus as a dip class to gain Spell Combat and Spellstrike for an otherwise Fighter / Wizard / ElK. You could go Wizard 3 / Magus 7 / ElK 10 (to hit a Wizard 12 casting level) I guess, but it doesn't seem like a good idea.Poison wrote:Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature.
The Broad Study Arcana covers that... although you need at least 6 Magus levels (and to already possess at least one level of another spellcasting class) in order to take it, so it kinda' torpedoes any hope of using the Magus as a dip class to gain Spell Combat and...ProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)2011-06-20T17:41:37ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch Knightseehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1342011-06-20T03:15:40Z2011-06-20T03:15:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote> Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature. </blockquote><p>Yeah, if you're trying to play a magus, you're best off playing a magus. If you've looked at a magus and you decide you want to play an EK anyway, it might be worthwhile to sub in magus instead of fighter, depending on what you're specifically trying to do.Poison wrote:Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature.
Yeah, if you're trying to play a magus, you're best off playing a magus. If you've looked at a magus and you decide you want to play an EK anyway, it might be worthwhile to sub in magus instead of fighter, depending on what you're specifically trying to do.see2011-06-20T03:15:40ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightPoisonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1332011-06-20T03:12:17Z2011-06-20T03:12:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">see wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jeranimus Rex wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Well then, thats quite a bit more than I anticipated. At least d10 HD means more HP. </p>
<p>But otherwise, its does seem pretty suboptimal. </blockquote><p>Well, as ProfPotts said, you don't even come ahead on hp. The blend just doesn't work all that well.
<p>Now, a Magus 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 can be a plausible alternative to the Fighter 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 build. You trade one BAB, one bonus feat, and 2 hp for a +2 Will save, three cantrip slots, an extra 1st-level spell slot, a small arcane pool, and spell combat. </blockquote><p>Spell Combat only works with Magus spells (well, any spells that's on Magus spell list). So while it indeed is handy, it doesn't differentiate it so much from a straight magus in terms of the said class feature.see wrote:Jeranimus Rex wrote:Well then, thats quite a bit more than I anticipated. At least d10 HD means more HP.
But otherwise, its does seem pretty suboptimal.
Well, as ProfPotts said, you don't even come ahead on hp. The blend just doesn't work all that well. Now, a Magus 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 can be a plausible alternative to the Fighter 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 build. You trade one BAB, one bonus feat, and 2 hp for a +2 Will save, three cantrip slots, an extra 1st-level spell slot, a small arcane pool,...Poison2011-06-20T03:12:17ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch Knightseehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1322011-06-20T03:07:18Z2011-06-20T03:07:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jeranimus Rex wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Well then, thats quite a bit more than I anticipated. At least d10 HD means more HP. </p>
<p>But otherwise, its does seem pretty suboptimal. </blockquote><p>Well, as ProfPotts said, you don't even come ahead on hp. The blend just doesn't work all that well.
<p>Now, a Magus 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 can be a plausible alternative to the Fighter 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 build. You trade one BAB, one bonus feat, and 2 hp for a +2 Will save, three cantrip slots, an extra 1st-level spell slot, a small arcane pool, and spell combat.</p>
<p>Magus 2/Wiz 8/EK 10 over Ftr 2/Wiz 8/EK 10 is also plausible, since it trades one BAB, two bonus feats, 3 hp, and eligibility to take 12-level fighter feats for +3 Will save, 4 cantrip slots, 2 1st-level spell slots, a small arcane pool, spell combat, and spellstrike.</p>
<p>And if you want to build something like an arcane ranger/paladin, there's possibly something worthwhile to be built out of a fighter/magus/EK.</p>Jeranimus Rex wrote:Well then, thats quite a bit more than I anticipated. At least d10 HD means more HP.
But otherwise, its does seem pretty suboptimal.
Well, as ProfPotts said, you don't even come ahead on hp. The blend just doesn't work all that well. Now, a Magus 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 can be a plausible alternative to the Fighter 1/Wiz 9/EK 10 build. You trade one BAB, one bonus feat, and 2 hp for a +2 Will save, three cantrip slots, an extra 1st-level spell slot, a small arcane pool, and spell...see2011-06-20T03:07:18ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1312011-06-19T23:52:18Z2011-06-19T23:52:18Z<p>Since Prestige Classes can't benefit from favoured class bonuses, on average the ElK's d10 Vs the Magus's d8 hit die actually cancels out.</p>Since Prestige Classes can't benefit from favoured class bonuses, on average the ElK's d10 Vs the Magus's d8 hit die actually cancels out.ProfPotts (alias of Alexander Scott)2011-06-19T23:52:18ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightJeranimus Rexhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1302011-06-19T23:03:13Z2011-06-19T23:03:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">see wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>You lose three points of Will save, a level of spell progression, three arcana, half your level-derived arcane pool points, 2 from your arcane pool cap (+3 top-out), improved spell recall, heavy armor, greater spell combat, counterstrike, greater spell access, and true magus.</p>
<p>In exchange you get +2 BAB (with one iterative attack), one more bonus feat, spell critical, and eligibility to take a handful of feats. </blockquote><p>Well then, thats quite a bit more than I anticipated. At least d10 HD means more HP.
<p>But otherwise, its does seem pretty suboptimal.</p>see wrote:You lose three points of Will save, a level of spell progression, three arcana, half your level-derived arcane pool points, 2 from your arcane pool cap (+3 top-out), improved spell recall, heavy armor, greater spell combat, counterstrike, greater spell access, and true magus.
In exchange you get +2 BAB (with one iterative attack), one more bonus feat, spell critical, and eligibility to take a handful of feats.
Well then, thats quite a bit more than I anticipated. At least d10 HD...Jeranimus Rex2011-06-19T23:03:13ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightPoisonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1292011-06-19T22:53:38Z2011-06-19T22:53:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Cold Napalm wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
1) that doesn't help me with my sword and board.</p>
<p>2) unless paizo staff has lost ALL sense of common sense on game balance, don't hold your breath. But then again, the issues with balance in UM seems to indicate that they may have lost all sense of game balance. Lets put it this way, if there is a two handed magus in UC, I'm not buying. I got UM when it came out because I believed that paizo is good at getting game balance and power creep in check. They failed utterly with UM. UM is banned in my games until further notice (no save staggered spell at level 2 and no save lose action spell at level 4?!? Antagonize...umm WTF?!? Cold ice strike is a quickened cone of cold as a 6th level spell). I will NOT be getting UC so blindly. </blockquote><p>Good news; it's not the UC description that I've read it from- it's <a href="http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/s/superGeniusGames/pathfinderRPG/ultimateOptions/v5748btpy8kqe&source=search" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this</a> 3rd-party material from Super Genius Games. It also says it's got sword-and-board archetype as well so if you could spare the dime might be worth having a glance.Cold Napalm wrote:1) that doesn't help me with my sword and board.2) unless paizo staff has lost ALL sense of common sense on game balance, don't hold your breath. But then again, the issues with balance in UM seems to indicate that they may have lost all sense of game balance. Lets put it this way, if there is a two handed magus in UC, I'm not buying. I got UM when it came out because I believed that paizo is good at getting game balance and power creep in check. They failed utterly with UM....Poison2011-06-19T22:53:38ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch Knightseehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1282011-06-19T22:36:05Z2011-06-19T22:36:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jeranimus Rex wrote:</div><blockquote> Save that it can be. While you loose out on Arcana, I think you end up with more bonus feats, an effective 15 lvls in Fighter for the purpose of feats, and one more Iterative attack</blockquote><p>You lose three points of Will save, a level of spell progression, three arcana, half your level-derived arcane pool points, 2 from your arcane pool cap (+3 top-out), improved spell recall, heavy armor, greater spell combat, counterstrike, greater spell access, and true magus.
<p>In exchange you get +2 BAB (with one iterative attack), one more bonus feat, spell critical, and eligibility to take a handful of feats.</p>Jeranimus Rex wrote:Save that it can be. While you loose out on Arcana, I think you end up with more bonus feats, an effective 15 lvls in Fighter for the purpose of feats, and one more Iterative attack
You lose three points of Will save, a level of spell progression, three arcana, half your level-derived arcane pool points, 2 from your arcane pool cap (+3 top-out), improved spell recall, heavy armor, greater spell combat, counterstrike, greater spell access, and true magus. In exchange you...see2011-06-19T22:36:05ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightCold Napalmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1272011-06-19T20:41:34Z2011-06-19T20:41:34Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Cold Napalm wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20. </p>
<p>Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up. </blockquote><p>Unless of course you want to any style of combat other then one handed weapon....
<p>And really, that is why I keep going back to the EK over the magus. I like sword and board. </blockquote>I think two-handed weapon fighting magus archetype is planned for Ultimate Combat so I'm quite happily waiting for the book to come out. </blockquote><p>1) that doesn't help me with my sword and board.
<p>2) unless paizo staff has lost ALL sense of common sense on game balance, don't hold your breath. But then again, the issues with balance in UM seems to indicate that they may have lost all sense of game balance. Lets put it this way, if there is a two handed magus in UC, I'm not buying. I got UM when it came out because I believed that paizo is good at getting game balance and power creep in check. They failed utterly with UM. UM is banned in my games until further notice (no save staggered spell at level 2 and no save lose action spell at level 4?!? Antagonize...umm WTF?!? Cold ice strike is a quickened cone of cold as a 6th level spell). I will NOT be getting UC so blindly.</p>Poison wrote:Cold Napalm wrote: Poison wrote:I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20.
Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up.
Unless of course you...Cold Napalm2011-06-19T20:41:34ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightJeranimus Rexhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1262011-06-19T18:28:24Z2011-06-19T18:28:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">LazarX wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Save that it isn't. Any choice but staying single class is an extremely subpar option for the magus which is already essentially a PrC at level 1.</p>
<p>The F/W/EK is the ALTERNATIVE to the Magus. It's for a character who wants to be more of a caster than a magus and a bit more of a fighter and is willing to give up the ability to be simultaneously both to do so. </blockquote><p>Save that it can be. While you loose out on Arcana, I think you end up with more bonus feats, an effective 15 lvls in Fighter for the purpose of feats, and one more Iterative attack (Bringning the Spellstrike total to 5, 6 with Haste).
<p>There are costs and benefits each, and I wouldn't be surprised if M/EK ended up being a good enough option for a standard adventuring party. </p>
<p>I'll probably have to read more into the Magus, but besides Heavy Armor Proficiency, the Magus I don't think looses out on too many critical Arcana.</p>LazarX wrote:Save that it isn't. Any choice but staying single class is an extremely subpar option for the magus which is already essentially a PrC at level 1.The F/W/EK is the ALTERNATIVE to the Magus. It's for a character who wants to be more of a caster than a magus and a bit more of a fighter and is willing to give up the ability to be simultaneously both to do so.
Save that it can be. While you loose out on Arcana, I think you end up with more bonus feats, an effective 15 lvls in...Jeranimus Rex2011-06-19T18:28:24ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightLazarXhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1252011-06-18T12:45:43Z2011-06-18T12:45:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Aazen wrote:</div><blockquote> I just prefer to think the EK is the PRC for Magus now. </blockquote><p>Save that it isn't. Any choice but staying single class is an extremely subpar option for the magus which is already essentially a PrC at level 1.
<p>The F/W/EK is the ALTERNATIVE to the Magus. It's for a character who wants to be more of a caster than a magus and a bit more of a fighter and is willing to give up the ability to be simultaneously both to do so.</p>Aazen wrote:I just prefer to think the EK is the PRC for Magus now.
Save that it isn't. Any choice but staying single class is an extremely subpar option for the magus which is already essentially a PrC at level 1. The F/W/EK is the ALTERNATIVE to the Magus. It's for a character who wants to be more of a caster than a magus and a bit more of a fighter and is willing to give up the ability to be simultaneously both to do so.LazarX2011-06-18T12:45:43ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightPoisonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1242011-06-16T13:40:20Z2011-06-16T13:40:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Cold Napalm wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20. </p>
<p>Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up. </blockquote><p>Unless of course you want to any style of combat other then one handed weapon....
<p>And really, that is why I keep going back to the EK over the magus. I like sword and board. </blockquote><p>I think two-handed weapon fighting magus archetype is planned for Ultimate Combat so I'm quite happily waiting for the book to come out.Cold Napalm wrote:Poison wrote:I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20.
Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up.
Unless of course you want to any style...Poison2011-06-16T13:40:20ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightAazenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1232011-06-16T13:36:19Z2011-06-16T13:36:19Z<p>I just prefer to think the EK is the PRC for Magus now.</p>I just prefer to think the EK is the PRC for Magus now.Aazen2011-06-16T13:36:19ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightCold Napalmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1222011-06-16T03:37:06Z2011-06-16T03:37:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20. </p>
<p>Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up. </blockquote><p>Unless of course you want to any style of combat other then one handed weapon....
<p>And really, that is why I keep going back to the EK over the magus. I like sword and board.</p>Poison wrote:I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20.
Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up.
Unless of course you want to any style of combat other...Cold Napalm2011-06-16T03:37:06ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightGravefiller613https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1212011-06-15T21:34:25Z2011-06-15T21:34:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Gravefiller613 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote> I don't see how 6th-level magus abilities and 6th-level druid abilities work together well. Your arcane pool will suck as will your wildshape. What am I missing? </blockquote><p>My focus is to get wildshape, so I can take natural spell. Given that magus spell list offers a lot of polymorpc spells, it helps in taking advantage of casting while in an alternate from.
<p>I digress though as you could burn metamagic feats or arcana and still + silent spells to cast while in an alternate form.</p>
<p>Druid offers a little more versitility than cleric in my opinion. Especially since you have the option of having a companion and a bonded item (blackblade), I'm also one to use sommon spells as a combat control method. Summoning spells, obviously, are somethign the magus lacks in.</p>
<p>Mystick Theurge though adds to the casting of both spell lists, which gives the magus a lot of clout. Unless I'm mistaken, the Druid spell list is a still a very nice list. </blockquote><p>But Natural Spell doesn't work with polymorph effects, only with Wildshape.
<p>Surely the ability to cast spells (even magus spells) along with the wildshaping ability of up to a 6th-level druid isn't better than playing a straight up magus using polymorph spells and wands? </blockquote><p>Save for the fact that wildshape mimics the elemental body, beast shape, and form of the dragon spells. I don't call seeing where using those spells wouldn't count for casting. I could be wrong, and if so, I'd still focus on uping the wildshape ability so I would not need to use those spells. A shapeshifting, damage dealing, fairly versital caster is the build. I'm not trying to overly optimize, but focus on an aspect of the Magus spell list that can be complimented by druid abilities.
<p>Though, I wonder can you have a blackblade and an animal companion?</p>Ravingdork wrote:Gravefiller613 wrote: Ravingdork wrote: I don't see how 6th-level magus abilities and 6th-level druid abilities work together well. Your arcane pool will suck as will your wildshape. What am I missing?
My focus is to get wildshape, so I can take natural spell. Given that magus spell list offers a lot of polymorpc spells, it helps in taking advantage of casting while in an alternate from. I digress though as you could burn metamagic feats or arcana and still + silent spells...Gravefiller6132011-06-15T21:34:25ZRe: Forums: Product Discussion: Magus vs. Eldritch KnightBenicio Del Espada (alias of Dave Young 992)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mavm&page=3?Magus-vs-Eldritch-Knight#1202011-06-15T14:15:23Z2011-06-15T14:15:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Poison wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20. </p>
<p>Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up. </blockquote><p>And here you hit it.
<p>Unless your campaign goes to 16+ levels (most apparently don't), the magus lets you be the sword-swingin'-spell-slingin' guy you want to be right away. The EK has to wait for those more powerful spells and can't mix them with attacks as well as the magus.</p>
<p>I'm glad we have both. Which one works best for you depends on your campaign and party makeup.</p>Poison wrote:I believe some people had already made this point before, but I also much prefer straight Magus compared to an EK-gish. Although a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/EK 10 gains +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, those benefits don't kick in until level 20.
Straight magus on the other hand, get its class features all spread out evenly across all levels and therefore is a lot easier to play in a long-term campaign where I'd expect to level up.
And here you hit it. Unless your campaign goes to 16+...Benicio Del Espada (alias of Dave Young 992)2011-06-15T14:15:23Z