"Start / Complete Full-Round Action" and spells.


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As a standard action possibility that isn't talked about much, I am curious how this works with spells.

[url=http://http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#start-complete-full-round-action wrote:

PRD[/url]]Start/Complete Full-Round Action

The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

Specifically I am thinking of 'Summon Monster N'.

Just below the last link wrote:
A spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

My gut tells me that one 'begins casting' only after the 'complete full round action' action. This then brings into question concentration issues, if you don't 'begin' until the second action and are done casting at that point.

My follow up thought is 'whats the point, if the spell effect comes out at the same time', I think the utility is this could allow one to move, cast long spell, finish long spell, move (two rounds of movement and a full-round-action spell).


Brandon Tomlinson wrote:

As a standard action possibility that isn't talked about much, I am curious how this works with spells.

[url=http://http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#start-complete-full-round-action wrote:

PRD[/url]]Start/Complete Full-Round Action

The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

Specifically I am thinking of 'Summon Monster N'.

Just below the last link wrote:
A spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

My gut tells me that one 'begins casting' only after the 'complete full round action' action. This then brings into question concentration issues, if you don't 'begin' until the second action and are done casting at that point.

My follow up thought is 'whats the point, if the spell effect comes out at the same time', I think the utility is this could allow one to move, cast long spell, finish long spell, move (two rounds of movement and a full-round-action spell).

Yeah, you're pretty much correct on that. The drawback is the fact you're casting until your next turn, which means there is a massive window for massive heartache as everyone goes "Hey, that guy is casting something big!" and starts hurling everything at you to screw it up.

EDIT: So you may want to use that first burst of movement to try and find some cover. Seriously. :P

Liberty's Edge

Brandon Tomlinson wrote:

As a standard action possibility that isn't talked about much, I am curious how this works with spells.

[url=http://http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#start-complete-full-round-action wrote:

PRD[/url]]Start/Complete Full-Round Action

The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

Specifically I am thinking of 'Summon Monster N'.

Just below the last link wrote:
A spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

My gut tells me that one 'begins casting' only after the 'complete full round action' action. This then brings into question concentration issues, if you don't 'begin' until the second action and are done casting at that point.

My follow up thought is 'whats the point, if the spell effect comes out at the same time', I think the utility is this could allow one to move, cast long spell, finish long spell, move (two rounds of movement and a full-round-action spell).

Round 1 (or surprise round), standard action to start casting the summon monster. Round 2, use standard action to finish casting the spell. When the spell effect begins is unclear. Some view it that the summon comes into existance after the 2nd standard action. Others view it as coming into existance just before your turn in round 3. The literal text is that it would finish before your turn in round 2, which is before the spell finishes. With the rule being unclear, my take is that spell effect coming into existance after the 2nd (completing) standard action is in the spirit of what should take place. YMMV.


As Howie23 said, I've mostly seen it used to start casting during a surprise round.

Liberty's Edge

hogarth wrote:
As Howie23 said, I've mostly seen it used to start casting during a surprise round.

It can also come up after taking a move action to draw a scroll, but this is rarely good use of actions unless the summon occurs after the second standard action...and not even necessarily then. :)


It's also a good option for someone who wants to get a spell off but needs to close some distance. Say for example you need to run up to your friend the rogue, but he's some 90 feet away from you. You want to cast summon monster II to give him a flanking buddy on the next turn. You might break up your total action like this:

Round 1:
You see your rogue friend is in trouble and needs some backup. He's about 90 feet away, so you gotta act fast.
Move Action: You begin moving towards him while pulling your spell components to your hands. In other words, a 30 ft move.
Standard Action: As you grab your spell components, you begin chanting the spell as you go, so that you'll have it ready when you arrive.
Round 2:
Your rogue friend tumbles around a big orc and readies an action to hit him when you summon a monster to flank with him. You're almost there.
Move Action: You move another 30ft up as you're finishing your spell, putting your rogue friend only 30 feet away.
Standard Action: You complete your spell (which has a range of around 25 ft + 5ft / 2 levels), and you drop 1d3 angry dogs around the enemy. Your rogue's readied action goes off and he enjoys a nice +2 flanking bonus and +2d6 sneak attack damage, and your dogs all start biting at the orc as well.

Yay tactics and teamwork! :D

Liberty's Edge

Ashiel wrote:

It's also a good option for someone who wants to get a spell off but needs to close some distance. Say for example you need to run up to your friend the rogue, but he's some 90 feet away from you. You want to cast summon monster II to give him a flanking buddy on the next turn. You might break up your total action like this:

Round 1:
You see your rogue friend is in trouble and needs some backup. He's about 90 feet away, so you gotta act fast.
Move Action: You begin moving towards him while pulling your spell components to your hands. In other words, a 30 ft move.
Standard Action: As you grab your spell components, you begin chanting the spell as you go, so that you'll have it ready when you arrive.
Round 2:
Your rogue friend tumbles around a big orc and readies an action to hit him when you summon a monster to flank with him. You're almost there.
Move Action: You move another 30ft up as you're finishing your spell, putting your rogue friend only 30 feet away.
Standard Action: You complete your spell (which has a range of around 25 ft + 5ft / 2 levels), and you drop 1d3 angry dogs around the enemy. Your rogue's readied action goes off and he enjoys a nice +2 flanking bonus and +2d6 sneak attack damage, and your dogs all start biting at the orc as well.

Yay tactics and teamwork! :D

Tactics and teamwork are good. However, I would understand that round 2 would require that the standard action to complete the summon angry dogs spell come prior to the move.


Howie23 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:

It's also a good option for someone who wants to get a spell off but needs to close some distance. Say for example you need to run up to your friend the rogue, but he's some 90 feet away from you. You want to cast summon monster II to give him a flanking buddy on the next turn. You might break up your total action like this:

Round 1:
You see your rogue friend is in trouble and needs some backup. He's about 90 feet away, so you gotta act fast.
Move Action: You begin moving towards him while pulling your spell components to your hands. In other words, a 30 ft move.
Standard Action: As you grab your spell components, you begin chanting the spell as you go, so that you'll have it ready when you arrive.
Round 2:
Your rogue friend tumbles around a big orc and readies an action to hit him when you summon a monster to flank with him. You're almost there.
Move Action: You move another 30ft up as you're finishing your spell, putting your rogue friend only 30 feet away.
Standard Action: You complete your spell (which has a range of around 25 ft + 5ft / 2 levels), and you drop 1d3 angry dogs around the enemy. Your rogue's readied action goes off and he enjoys a nice +2 flanking bonus and +2d6 sneak attack damage, and your dogs all start biting at the orc as well.

Yay tactics and teamwork! :D

Tactics and teamwork are good. However, I would understand that round 2 would require that the standard action to complete the summon angry dogs spell come prior to the move.

To my knowledge, there is nothing that says so. Merely that you must use another standard action to finish it on the following round. If you have something concerning that, I'm willing to listen.


Ashiel wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
Tactics and teamwork are good. However, I would understand that round 2 would require that the standard action to complete the summon angry dogs spell come prior to the move.
To my knowledge, there is nothing that says so. Merely that you must use another standard action to finish it on the following round. If you have something concerning that, I'm willing to listen.

I would think most GMs would rule as Howie did and I would have probably agreed with him.

However, a strict reading of the rules seem to allow this. Even Skip Williams in one of his Rules of Game articles (for 3.5) said: "As with any other standard action, you can use a move action either before or after starting or completing the full-round action (provided you have both a standard action and move action available during your turn)."

Can anyone find rules-as-written that disallow this?


That's cool Tim, but as a GM I would allow it. So I guess it doesn't much matter to my games. Meanwhile, it's not like it's a problem that needs to be patched. Further still, the discussion was about the rules, and according to them it's legal. If a GM wants to change that, the GM can change anything if they really want to, then I guess that's fine, but it doesn't have much relevance to the conversation (at least IMHO).


Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Howie23 wrote:


Tactics and teamwork are good. However, I would understand that round 2 would require that the standard action to complete the summon angry dogs spell come prior to the move.

Well if you're going with the ruling that the effect resolves before the next turn (turn 3), Couldn't you finish the spell and then move, then the effect will execute from where you are then, therefore it doesn't matter when you move.

Liberty's Edge

Ashiel wrote:
Howie23 wrote:
I would understand that round 2 would require that the standard action to complete the summon angry dogs spell come prior to the move.
To my knowledge, there is nothing that says so. Merely that you must use another standard action to finish it on the following round. If you have something concerning that, I'm willing to listen.

Here's the best I can come up with:

Combat, Standard Action, Start/Complete Full-Round Action:
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action.

Combat, Full Round Action, Cast a Spell:
When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration from 1 round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration after starting the spell and before it is complete, you lose the spell...This action is otherwise identical to the cast a spell action described under Standard Actions.

Combat, Standard Action, Cast a Spell:
"Most spells require 1 standard action to cast. You can cast such a spell either before or after you take a move action.

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full round action. To cast such a spell, you must continue casting from start until the spell is completed and comes into existence; in other words, you can't stop casting and do something else, such as move, and then resume casting. Losing concentration in the midst of casting causes you to lose the spell. There are a few other variations, but otherwise, casting a spell that takes 1 round is like a spell that takes a standard action..namely that movement takes place before or after casting. When splitting a spell across two rounds via the Start/Complete action, you use the standard action from both rounds. Nothing negates the requirement that you continue the casting during that that time, so the requirement remains.

Note: I have glossed over some of the detail about when casting can stop. The cited text fits the standard circumstance of casting the spell as a full round action; some modification is needed to fit however you view the duration of the spellcasting and when the spell comes into effect If you take a perspective other than the spellcasting finishing, and the effect coming into existence, after the second standard action, you may come up with a different perspective.

Additional note:
If going with the idea that it is possible to stop casting, do other things, then resume, you could also do the following:

Round 1: move, start casting, use a swift action
Round 2: use a swift action, move, start casting

Grand Lodge

If i use a full-round action to cast a normal summoning spell, does it show up at the end of my turn?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Brilde Phelon wrote:
If i use a full-round action to cast a normal summoning spell, does it show up at the end of my turn?

No. You would continue casting the spell, concentrating on it during everyone else's turn, until the start of your next turn. Then the creature would come into existence. And since it's the start of the your next turn, you (and the creature) would be allowed a full round of new actions.

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