Best class for me?


Advice


Hey all,

Here's the long and skinny:
I'm a relative newcomer to playing the system.
I'd like to choose a class that is fighter'ish but kind of a jack-of-all-trades type, with an emphasis on rogue/thief/assassin/swashbuckler skills.

What class would you all recommend? Assume the GM has all the PDFs.

Thanks


Well then id just go with the fighter he is kind of the beginner class.

Liberty's Edge

You could make a ninja (ultimate combat trial pdf) that has the skills of a rogue but is much more combat oriented than a rogue. Its not the easiest thing to play though, it has a lot of abilities.

A fighter / rogue multiclass could work, as could a monk, though they won't be optimal choices.

Sovereign Court

It can be complex for a new player, but a Bard Arcane Duelist is what your after I think. It has the stones in melee with various bonuses as well as getting Arcane Strike for free, it tends to wear light armour (and can cast in it) and enjoys 6 + Int skills. Bard is the stereotype jack of all trades, and you get to cast too.

Link

Assuming human and 20 point buy, i'd do abilities somewhat like the following-

Strength- 18 (16 + 2 human racial)
Dexterity- 14
Constitution- 12
Inelligence- 10
Wisdom- 8
Charisma- 14


Here are a few thoughts

1) Rogue.
2) Fighter(Dex based) with a thief skill set
3) Ranger, choose the non-spellcasting varient from Advanced Guide (Skirmisher I think it's called)
4) Multiclassed Fighter Rogue...stay dex based.
5) Profit.


LizardMage wrote:

Here are a few thoughts

1) Rogue.
2) Fighter(Dex based) with a thief skill set
3) Ranger, choose the non-spellcasting varient from Advanced Guide (Skirmisher I think it's called)
4) Multiclassed Fighter Rogue...stay dex based.
5) Profit.

Thanks for the tips all! Not too keen on the bard build, though I probably would be if I knew the system better. Same with the ninja. I just see myself getting bogged down in the minutia of skills, etc...

I guess I'll just go straight rogue, though I dislike being an armor lightweight. What is tilting me in that direction is I found out both my party members are going with fighter builds (3 of us in the group). One is a fighter variant of some kind and one is a straight fighter build. Holler if you have any more input. It's appreciated.

P.s.- lizardmage, I assume you mean "prophet"? What kind of class is that? Thanks


I'm fairly sure the Profit is a joke.

e.g.

1)buy dough
2)make pizza
3)?????
4)Profit

The closest to a Prophet you would have is an oracle or cleric of somekind.

I would suggest Ranger though; it does sound like what your after.


I would suggest a fighter/duelist build (less damage than a pure fighter, but better skills and more status effects when you get up there). The non-magic ranger (skirmisher) is a good way to go, lots of skills full bab and d10 hd. A barbarian can be fun to, good combat abilities, more skills than a fighter.


Mostly rogue with 1 or 2 levels of fighter is going to be a really simple way to get what you are looking for.

If you have other melee members of the party, I really suggest you all take the Outflank feat. You'll love it.

Liberty's Edge

Count_Rugen wrote:

Hey all,

Here's the long and skinny:
I'm a relative newcomer to playing the system.
I'd like to choose a class that is fighter'ish but kind of a jack-of-all-trades type, with an emphasis on rogue/thief/assassin/swashbuckler skills.

What class would you all recommend? Assume the GM has all the PDFs.

Thanks

Ranger or a rogue.


@Count_Rugen

Yeah, El_Bandito is right, it's just an old joke from South Park's underpants gnomes.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Count_Rugen wrote:

Hey all,

Here's the long and skinny:
I'm a relative newcomer to playing the system.
I'd like to choose a class that is fighter'ish but kind of a jack-of-all-trades type, with an emphasis on rogue/thief/assassin/swashbuckler skills.

What class would you all recommend? Assume the GM has all the PDFs.

You have basically just described the Ranger in many ways, or perhaps the Monk. Both have skills, can be relatively agile and sneaky and are better at doing a number of things reasonably well rather than one thing very well.

There is also a variation of the basic fighter called the College Trained fighter from the old Campaign Setting - you lose some feats, but gain 4+Int skill ranks and a lot of extra class skills.

Silver Crusade

Count_Rugen wrote:

Hey all,

Here's the long and skinny:
I'm a relative newcomer to playing the system.
I'd like to choose a class that is fighter'ish but kind of a jack-of-all-trades type, with an emphasis on rogue/thief/assassin/swashbuckler skills.

What class would you all recommend? Assume the GM has all the PDFs.

Thanks

(Rogue/Thief/Assassin) Rogue

(Swashbuckler/Skills/Jack of all Trades) Bard
(lose assassin and keap every thing else) BardXX/Rogue2
Not as good as a full bard. But can do every thing you need as a rogue. And pickes up evasion for the bard. You can build this as a historc ninja as a information broker not assassion.

example
Human 20point buy.
Bard1/Rogue (Start as a bard and then alternate back and forth untill you have two levels of rogue at level 4.)
Str 14
Dex 17
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14
Feets: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesess
Skills: Acrobatics, Disable Device, Perception, Perform(oratary), Perform(Act), Stealth, (Split the last point to cover. Using the favord class for exta skill point is not a bad idea.) Linguistics, All Knowlage.
Casting spells requires a free hand. So cast any buffs befor drawing your off hand weapon and entering combat. Or go Arcane Duelist Bard but you lose verstale performance. That puts you in a realy tight spot on skill points. You wold drop perform(oratary, and act) pick up Bluff, and Diplomacy. You wold lose out on have high sense motive and disquise


Rogue1/ranger19.

Keep your spells so you can heal the fighters with wands, put ranks in perception/disable device to deal with traps. You'll still have pleanty of skill to be good at whatever "swashbuckling" skills you want. Use spells like gravity bow/ lead blades to be more awesome in close combat.

The ranger and rogue skill list combined gives you pretty much whatever skill you could ever want as a class skill.

Flanking sneak attack and favored enemy means you could probably be pretty decent as two weapon fighting if that's your thing.


Back in 3.5 I would recommend the barbarian for a novice to gaming, and a ranger to an experienced gamer new to the system. The reason for the ranger was that it dipped into most of the rules, forcing the player to learn them all. The barbarian used to be a simple "point and smite" interface, being kind of hard to get wrong.

The point with the ranger still stands, although the barbarian is no longer such a good choice for a beginner.

Liberty's Edge

Jeez, guys....the OP wrote: "I'm a relative newcomer to playing the system" -- this is your clue that, eh, problems will result when he then tries to layer in "I'd like to choose a class that is fighter'ish but kind of a jack-of-all-trades type, with an emphasis on rogue/thief/assassin/swashbuckler skills."

E.g., the other half of the phrase "Jack of all trades..." is "...master of none!"; and few things suck worse than never "shining" at anything when at a table with five other players.

"Rogue/thief/assassin/swashbuckler" means, to my eyes, one thing: high-DEX build with lame hit-points and lame damage. To "build" one of these that is consistently effective and survivable as a combat machine requires deep immersion within the rules and knowledge of all available class abilities, traits and feats -- which is precluded as a "given" by the OP's newness. ...What usually happens is that the "new" player gets far too much advice to integrate and usually ends of making something like a STR:12, CON:12, DEX:20, CHA:07 guy with a mediocre number of rogue levels who's using Acrobatics to bounce around doing 1d6+2+2d6(sneak)+1d6(2nd enhancement) or some such by 6th or 7th level with a +2 weapon....14-20pts. Meanwhile, the purpose-built face-masher with Power Attack is doing that much at 1st level with a 0gp greatclub -- and doesn't need to dump a single stat under 10 to do it. The player of the rogue belatedly realizes that Use Magic Device is absolutely wonderful when you have money falling out of your pockets, and forlornly wishes he hadn't crashed his CHA to min/max a suboptimal combat focus using character classes best utilized doing other things.

The first concept the OP mentioned was "fighter", and the second was "skills". To me, that signifies barbarian multiclass. Since the player is new, I recommend something very durable (to account for "errors" which result in granting the enemy lots of attacks of opportunity) who has fun beating on things but isn't a total pariah in social situations. Something like a 15,14,12,12,12,12 20pt stat-array layered into a dwarf barbarian who takes ONE level of a BAB:0 class at 2nd-level for extra abilities and skill availabilities (cleric1 is always versatile). Barbarian/cleric grants Acrobatics, Appraise, Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival, and six Knowledge skills -- and you'll have 5sk/lvl to spend with each additional barb level. Pop one skill point into Diplomacy at 2nd, and your "tank dwarf" is +4 (or +6 vs the usual CHA-dumper). Cast Bless in the first round of combat, and the -1 BAB aspect disappears (and you buff your allies as well) -- The only hard and fast rule of the concept is Raging Vitality as 1st-level feat (so you can be just as aggressive and foolhardy as you want as a newb player, and still not die when you get plonked to -20 by a crit).


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If you're looking for a Swashbuckler like character.. I recommend Swashbuckler, the Rogue Variant. Pick up Weapon Prof/Focus for Scimitar, grab Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance and use your Dex for Attack/Damage. Swashbuckler is an amusing and fun class.

If you want to be more "Tanky" play a variant Fighter, Barbarian, or Bard. If you're looking to have some magic in there Magus also looks like an interesting build. As far as Prestige classes go Duelist is always fun. :D

Liberty's Edge

Gloom wrote:
If you're looking for a Swashbuckler like character.. I recommend Swashbuckler, the Rogue Variant. Pick up Weapon Prof/Focus for Scimitar, grab Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance and use your Dex for Attack/Damage. Swashbuckler is an amusing and fun class. ...As far as Prestige classes go Duelist is always fun

In my disparaging opinion, Duelists are worse than more levels of whatever base class you're already in (except for level 1, if you're already a high-INT Dodge/Mobility rogue). The usual problem with these types of builds is crappy will and fort saves, low hit-points and mediocre damage in a combat-oriented build (because low STR, one-handed weapon use, and limited feat slots preclude rationally taking Power Attack).

Dervish were overpowered in 3.5; Pathfinder has gone overboard in nerfing them, IMO (the whole point of 3.5's Dervish was to get Dervish Dance, which permitted full-attacks on-the-move).

Levels 2,3,4 of Duelist are appalling useless (and what do you get at 9th if you stick it out? Deflect Arrows! Wow! ...and No Retreat...as if anyone will be afraid of this underpowered character to the point of desperately wanting to retreat) -- that whole "prestige" class should be junked and rewritten from scratch, or better yet, just buried and forgotten while the better bits are given to Swashbucklers or made feats of their own.

(There appears to beone practical use for Duelist: as a single level dip-out for an INT-based arcane caster meeting the all-martial-weapons prerequisite for Eldritch Knight -- Duelist is superior to fighter in this respect, since Precise Strike grants more bang for the buck to a wizard than just about any other combat feat fighter1 could grant. BUT if your wizard took Dodge and Mobility only to then take Duelist for Precise Strike, then he's nerfed himself out of three better-spent feat choices.)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It may surprise you, Mike, to learn that you CAN make a high-dex, reasonable damage-output duelist build - but it takes a lot of skill to get it right, and it's usually best to rely on criticals for special effects. I wouldn't recommend it for a new player by any stretch.

Second point, the game is not about who is most uber, it's about having fun. If that's what he wants, let him play it.

Monk actually works well for the kind of concept he seems to have in mind without going to other classes, but it takes a bit of finesse to play a monk right. Pure Ranger also works well for what he has in mind. Rather than suggest massive multi-classing and stuff, just let him play what he wants and find out about the game his own way.


Actually sounds a lot like he wants to be an Urban Ranger.

Look at that man, Full BAB (fighterish), 6Skills per level, Trapfinding (rogue), Camouflage, Hide in Plain sight (assassin). Take the wolf buddy to auto trip with it's bite (prone opponents are easier to hit)

The only 'must have' feat is Bonded Companion.
Weapon Style is up to you-Treantmonk's Switch hitter build is strong and versatile.


From what I am seeing it looks like Urban Ranger is probably the best way to go. The only question is whether or not he wants to go with the Hunter's Tricks option or keep his spells. The tricks may not be as optimized as using magic, but they are fun. Getting an extra attack if an ally is hit, or trip attempts, aid another, or entangling the opponent as part of a damaging attack is a bit of an action economy boost, even if it is limited.


Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
From what I am seeing it looks like Urban Ranger is probably the best way to go. The only question is whether or not he wants to go with the Hunter's Tricks option or keep his spells. The tricks may not be as optimized as using magic, but they are fun. Getting an extra attack if an ally is hit, or trip attempts, aid another, or entangling the opponent as part of a damaging attack is a bit of an action economy boost, even if it is limited.

I still say he should go with the Hunter's Tricks. Get used to a melee user then on his next go around take play a caster to learn that side of the house.


I think LizardMage has the right idea. Don't worry about spellcasting on your first go.

Urban Ranger with Skrimisher could work well, probably better than a fighter since the Combat Style gives you a list of feats to choose from. No guess work there :)

If you want even less things to keep track of (and animal companions are a lot to keep track of!), throw the Guide Archetype in there. You won't have to worry about an Animal Companion, and since you probably don't know what kind of monsters are going to be coming at you, you won't have to guess about Favored Enemy. Just drop Ranger's Focus on something you want dead, and go to town!

There's some mild confusion over whether Favored Community from Urban Ranger and Terrain Bond from Guide will work together, since Terrain Bond specifically mentions Favored Terrain.

I'd also recommend a Barbarian since you get a lot of awesome things to do from your Rage Powers, but you won't be all that much of a jack-of-all-trades.

Side note: I remember wanting a Jack of all Trades for my first character. Chose a Rogue. I wasn't all that happy with it :(


Actually learning the magic system with a Ranger or Paladin is not a bad way to go. Since the spells are a minor part of the class it does not cripple him if he makes some mistakes, and he will. Prior to the APG the Rangers spell list did not have a lot of good spells. Don't get me wrong they had some decent ones but a lot were really circumstance. With the APG it got a lot better.

The fact that as a divine spell caster he gets the whole list means he does not have to worry about choosing or finding spells. Being a spell caster also gives him the ability to use wands and scrolls.


+1 on urban ranger.


I second, third or fourth the Ranger. Ranger is, IMHO, the most versatile class in all of Pathfinder. I think for a beginner, the fact that Ranger dips her toe in almost everything is actually a good thing, you learn combat rules, both ranged and melee, skill use, and a little casting. Plus, the number of archetypes possible with all of the Ranger variants creates a stunningly large array of possible character concepts. Rogue, Fighter, or a combination of the two would be my second choice, and I would steer clear of Monks and Bards, which I think of as more advanced level classes. Without the proper build and focus, it is all to easy to build a useless Bard or Monk.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Half-elf urban ranger, with your bonus Skill Focus feat going into Acrobatics to make up for it not being a class skill. It's a fighterish class, has tons of skill points to help with the Jack of all trades bits, fun class features, and an introduction into spell casting. You can even use wands of cure light wounds and be a back up healer!


Fighters and bards and rogues have a ton of options. Not necessarily the best choice for a new player. . .

I think rangers are probably a safe middle ground. I'd avoid animal companions (even if they're more optimal). They have a limited spellcasting progression. They get a large number of skills to play with (but not too large). They are effective in combat using 2 well-defined paths. I like the urban ranger choice as well. . .

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