This. By god, this. I think X-Men "canon" is probably the most fractured and inconsistent fictional "canon" in existence.
Not a DC Comics fan, I take it...
Not a DC Comics fan, I take it...
This. By god, this. I think X-Men "canon" is probably the most fractured and inconsistent fictional "canon" in existence.
At least DC made somewhat of an attempt to fix things with Crisis on Infinate Earths. Couldn't really say how much more messed up it's gotten since then, but I do know they had another Crisis or 2 (don't really know the plot/s, nor do I care to, so please don't elaborate ;)
|
Not a DC Comics fan, I take it...
This. By god, this. I think X-Men "canon" is probably the most fractured and inconsistent fictional "canon" in existence.
Does DC even have a canon? I thought the only overriding rule there was that no matter how obscenely cosmic the threat, Batman has already prepeared a contingency plan for it.
:P
Nope, not really, DC's never really interested me much.
X-Men canon is disrupted by:
time travel
fake death / real deaths / resurrections
too many character who specifically have powers that screw up the timeline
too many events that change depending on the current's author's intepretation on what should have happened (Xorn, anyone?)
clones
Warning**** a tad "Ranty" below... ;)
Fwiw, I'd take DC over Marvel any day. Especially now as Disney owns them (but for seperate reasons). And I'm a loooooooooong time Marvel fan.
The X-Books have been plagued by too many characters (nevermind the time altering things,) too many books, and waaaay too many crossovers. Claremont was the only great writer post original team, IMO. Nicieza was hit and miss, and horrible during the Exodus thing. Classic times were... The Hellfire Club, the Brood, the Shi'ar, the New Mutants, Inferno, the Mutant Massacre, Genosha, Mr. Sinister, Magneto, etc. The later Apocalypse story was ok too.
The second X-men book should have never been. Later X-Factor (Havok and crew) should have been the "B" team (and a place for New Mutant graduates) combined with Excalibur and based in Europe.
X-Force was a mistake (still hate Liefeld btw), The New Mutants could have stayed with a changing roster as the kids graduate (preferably with Chris Bachalo artwork ;) ).
Don't even get me started on the whole Askani'son, Cable, X-Man etc. Totally useless clutter. An occasional trip to Days of the Future Past timeline/reality would have been enough.
Marvel in general tends to shoot themselves in the foot, Civil War was a disaster. Spider-Man revealing his identity was the worst thought out plotline ever, etc.
Sorry for the tangent rant.
Movies not following canon don't bother me anymore, I used to hate it. Thor and Spider-Man were the better marvel movies. I think First Class and Captain America will be great. Iron Man suffered from poor choices in villains despite obvious canonical screw ups. The last Hulk version was merely ok. Eric Bana was a better Bruce Banner, but the last movie had a better villain and story.
YMMV with all of the above.
|
|
The X-Books have been plagued by too many characters (nevermind the time altering things,) too many books, and waaaay too many crossovers.
Yeah, I'm supprised that I missed out on those three things, 'cos they're one of the reasons that X-Men has gone so far off the tracks, in my less-than-humble opinion. It's also one of the reasons I enjoyed Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men so much...he kept the main characters to a single small team that didn't switch out members, and his story, while enhanced by a knowledge of prior events in the X-books, didn't REQUIRE it like many stories seem to.
Yeah, I'm supprised that I missed out on those three things, 'cos they're one of the reasons that X-Men has gone so far off the tracks, in my less-than-humble opinion. It's also one of the reasons I enjoyed Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men so much...he kept the main characters to a single small team that didn't switch out members, and his story, while enhanced by a knowledge of prior events in the X-books, didn't REQUIRE it like many stories seem to.
Sadly I missed Whedon's run.
I stopped collecting comics at around Uncanny 350-ish. I was up to 87 titles a month at one point which was way too expensive. :)Also, I think Marvel in general (besides the x-books) started going downhill at around the time of all the gimmicky foil, die-cut, covers. They just needed the smallest of reasons to do them, like Issue# 25 (or 375, etc) of ________. Every 100 issues should be considered a milestone only, IMHO. The quality of writing during these times were at an all time low too. <----- again YMMV.
|
|
You do know that Marvel has multiple timelines for all of it's characters? This might be X-Men Ultimate or somesuch.
Some people seem to be unable to wrap their minds around the concept that the Marvel movies pretty much are their own seperate continuity, independent of 616 and Ultimate (or the hundreds of other, lesser continuities that Marvel has created over the years). I don't care much about the details, I just want them to get the spirit of the comic/characters right.
I'm not likely to see it unless people I know do some raving (as opposed to ranting and raving) about how good it is. Between Thor, Green Lantern, and Captain America I am not going to have enough time and money to see this one too. I'm even waiting on Captain America to be honest.
I demand video of you cutting up your geek card.
Yeah, I'm supprised that I missed out on those three things, 'cos they're one of the reasons that X-Men has gone so far off the tracks, in my less-than-humble opinion. It's also one of the reasons I enjoyed Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men so much...he kept the main characters to a single small team that didn't switch out members, and his story, while enhanced by a knowledge of prior events in the X-books, didn't REQUIRE it like many stories seem to.Sadly I missed Whedon's run.
I stopped collecting comics at around Uncanny 350-ish. I was up to 87 titles a month at one point which was way too expensive. :)
Also, I think Marvel in general (besides the x-books) started going downhill at around the time of all the gimmicky foil, die-cut, covers. They just needed the smallest of reasons to do them, like Issue# 25 (or 375, etc) of ________. Every 100 issues should be considered a milestone only, IMHO. The quality of writing during these times were at an all time low too. <----- again YMMV.
I assure you friend, you missed nothing. Ah. Refreshing.
Yes, I know, the movie isn't going to be out for another two weeks, but with the latest trailer and more information coming out about it, I have to admit I'm a bit torn here.
The pros: Good director, decent screenplay writer. The special effects look fairly spot on for a summer blockbuster. Iconic X-Men characters making their appearance on the big screen for the first time.
The cons: Here's where my fanboy rage wants to take over. How far off the original storyline are they going to run with this movie? Mystique as an X-man? A girl with insect wings as Angel? Shouldn't she go by a different name and be in the Avengers movie? I'm glad to see other characters like Banshee and Moira MacTaggert making an appearance, but this seems like a can of mixed nuts to me. Havok, but no Cyclops? Why is Emma Frost being remade to replace Iceman?
So what about the rest of you X-Men fans? Are you going to give the movie a shot? I'm leaning heavily towards waiting for the DVD release and giving the theater a bye.
A little late to the thread, my apologies. But yeah, I'm behind you 100%. All the technical aspects of this film say it's going to be awesome, but the roster of characters has me frothing at the mouth with fanboy rage. I read down a list of who's in it(and not) and in my head I'm screaming "WTF!?!"
I can sort of understand if this is supposed to pre-date the original X-Men lineup, but why is Havok there? Why is Emma Frost and Banshee there?
As we've all seen, the X-books and storylines suffered from too many characters and continuities all over the place. At least the original X-Men team was fairly straight-forward. This movie looks like they're cramming the worst aspect of the X-Men stories into a reboot from square one(too many characters, not enough face time or development, too confusing). Seriously, chop the cast in HALF and we might get a reasonably accurate X-Men movie.
I'm smelling Mortal Kombat: Annihilation all over again(30 characters with 20 second cameos).
Yes, I know, the movie isn't going to be out for another two weeks, but with the latest trailer and more information coming out about it, I have to admit I'm a bit torn here.
The pros: Good director, decent screenplay writer. The special effects look fairly spot on for a summer blockbuster. Iconic X-Men characters making their appearance on the big screen for the first time.
The cons: Here's where my fanboy rage wants to take over. How far off the original storyline are they going to run with this movie? Mystique as an X-man? A girl with insect wings as Angel? Shouldn't she go by a different name and be in the Avengers movie? I'm glad to see other characters like Banshee and Moira MacTaggert making an appearance, but this seems like a can of mixed nuts to me. Havok, but no Cyclops? Why is Emma Frost being remade to replace Iceman?
So what about the rest of you X-Men fans? Are you going to give the movie a shot? I'm leaning heavily towards waiting for the DVD release and giving the theater a bye.
A little late to the thread, my apologies. But yeah, I'm behind you 100%. All the technical aspects of this film say it's going to be awesome, but the roster of characters has me frothing at the mouth with fanboy rage. I read down a list of who's in it(and not) and in my head I'm screaming "WTF!?!"
I can sort of understand if this is supposed to pre-date the original X-Men lineup, but why is Havok there? Why is Emma Frost and Banshee there?
As we've all seen, the X-books and storylines suffered from too many characters and continuities all over the place. At least the original X-Men team was fairly straight-forward. This movie looks like they're cramming the worst aspect of the X-Men stories into a reboot from square one(too many characters, not enough face time or development, too confusing). Seriously, chop the cast in HALF and we might get a reasonably accurate X-Men movie.
I'm smelling Mortal Kombat: Annihilation all over again(30 characters with 20 second cameos).
Emma Frost is one of the bad guys in the movie so she's not with the X-Men.
Did Banshee start as a first-run X-Men antagonist? I can't remember.
And Havok and Lorna Dane have both been around for a real long time, too, right?
Did Banshee start as a first-run X-Men antagonist? I can't remember.
And Havok and Lorna Dane have both been around for a real long time, too, right?
I think that youre right about Banshee, but Alex and Lorna show up later on in the original run. Alex shows up in the 50's while I believe that Lorna shows up a bit earlier as "Magneto's Daughter"?
Banshee, when he first appeared in X-Men #28 (1967), was forced to help the bad guys until Xavier freed him, whereupon he (Banshee) helped the X-Men.
Havok first appeared in #54 (1969). Polaris first appeared in #49(1968).
And how do I know all this? I looked it up in the wikipedia. Heh.
I humbly suggest that if you are a mutant character that has appeared in the X-Men since the 1960s, you have a right to be in X-Men: First Class, continuity be damned!
You do know that Marvel has multiple timelines for all of it's characters? This might be X-Men Ultimate or somesuch. Emma Frost has the power to turn her body into a Living Diamond. It turns off her telepathy however when she does so.
It's not the Ultimate time line. In fact since it's produced by Fox and not Marvel Studios proper (Marvel has licsenced out the Fantasic Four, X-Men and Spider-Man properties)theyre not presently "tied into" Marvel movie continuity like Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Captain America are to each other.
The present movie continuity (out of Marvel Studios) seems to be an amalgam of classic marvel and Ultimate Marvel. Which is fine by me.
I have no idea what X-men First Class is part of. For me that First Class will always be Scott, Jean, Bobby, Warren and Hank. I cant quite wrap my head around who these other characters are and the drastic change from comic continuity even though I know the movie is actually following the PREVIOUS movies continuity.
Ugh.
As a result I have no interest in seeing this movie. It might actually be a good movie, but as a fan of the older x-men I cant bring myself to be excited about this movie. Maybe I'll check it out on DVD when it comes out...
Havok first appeared in #54 (1969). Polaris first appeared in #49(1968).And how do I know all this? I looked it up in the wikipedia. Heh.
I'm not saying anything good or bad about wikipedia, but I have found it a most useful tool for looking up comic book characters and old TSR modules.
Also, Lorna Dane was hot!
I just can't get over how a movie about the "original" x-men, doesn't have the "original" x-men in it. It's got at least 100 reasons why it should be the best x-men movie yet, but for this reason it just has me nerd-raging all over the place. I just keep telling myself it's a reboot/prequel.
I haven't familiarized myself that much with who's supposed to be in the next movie, but another thought occurs to me.
This'll make what? The fifth X-Men movie? Eventually, this shiznit's going to be milked dry. Maybe they're trying to get some more characters on screen before the franchise shuts down.
I haven't familiarized myself that much with who's supposed to be in the next movie, but another thought occurs to me.
This'll make what? The fifth X-Men movie? Eventually, this shiznit's going to be milked dry. Maybe they're trying to get some more characters on screen before the franchise shuts down.
I do know Marvel was fighting like hell to get their rights to the X-Men franchise back, and the time left on the license is winding down, so I'm thinking Sony is going to over saturate the market and make everyone eventually sick of hearing about the X-Men, in hopes Marvel won't want the proprety back, or sell it off for more money. I dunno, just my hunch. They're going to beat the dead horse to a pulp before they let Marvel have it back. Same with Spider-man(hello, reboot).
After the first Tim Burton Batman came out, movie studios went crazy buying up rights to whatever comic idea they thought could make money. Sony has had the X-Men for a long, long time. Hell, they first started working on Spider-man back in like, '91 or '92 I think.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I haven't familiarized myself that much with who's supposed to be in the next movie, but another thought occurs to me.
This'll make what? The fifth X-Men movie? Eventually, this shiznit's going to be milked dry. Maybe they're trying to get some more characters on screen before the franchise shuts down.
Actually, I think unlike Spider-man, Batman, or Superman, the X-franchise could go on for a while with careful investment and continuity.
Matthew's X-thoughtsIf I was to propose an X-movie post x-men 3 (assuming I couldn't just ignore it, ala Superman Returns) I'd go Bobby, Peter, Kitty, Dani Moonstar, Jubilee, and Anole as my 'new X-men' See if you can get Hugh Jackman and/or Hallie Berry to do cameo/minor roles. Wolverine and Storm serve as mentors. Do a trillogy with them, introducing newer characters, then come X-men 7, you rotate in new characters with the old characters doing mentor roles, etc.
I just can't get over how a movie about the "original" x-men, doesn't have the "original" x-men in it.
The Beast was an original. Havok and Polaris are debatable.
I just can't get over how a movie about the "original" x-men, doesn't have the "original" x-men in it.The Beast was an original. Havok and Polaris are debatable.
So aside from Xavier, we're at 1/5? Awesome.
I've went back and reprocessed some of the above posts.
I had been laboring under the misconception that this next X-Men movie was going to be handled by Marvel. Since it isn't, I take back any excitement I may have expressed about this film.
Not meaning to troll, but I don't think the three X-Men movies were all that good. There were moments in each that were awesome, but overall the stories were kind of blah. I didn't see the solo Wolverine.
I still might see this in a matinee, though. These movies are always better in a theater and the summer gets hot.
I've went back and reprocessed some of the above posts.
I had been laboring under the misconception that this next X-Men movie was going to be handled by Marvel. Since it isn't, I take back any excitement I may have expressed about this film.
Not meaning to troll, but I don't think the three X-Men movies were all that good. There were moments in each that were awesome, but overall the stories were kind of blah. I didn't see the solo Wolverine.
I still might see this in a matinee, though. These movies are always better in a theater and the summer gets hot.
I actually enjoyed the x-men trilogy(yes, even 3), but the Wolverine movie was terrible. A friend of mine got it when it leaked online(which I still say was a publicity stunt) and we watched it, I still felt cheated.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
If they were to make a 'second class' with a young Storm, I'd love to see her in the role.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
If they were to make a 'second class' with a young Storm, I'd love to see her in the role.
+a million
Hubba hubba. :)
I actually enjoyed the x-men trilogy(yes, even 3), but the Wolverine movie was terrible.
+1
|
If they were to make a 'second class' with a young Storm, I'd love to see her in the role.
I read that if this one does good, they will do 2 sequels. One set in the 70s, other one in 80s.
|
If they were to make a 'second class' with a young Storm, I'd love to see her in the role.
Heck yeah!
After seeing Angela Basset's role of Macy in the Strange Days movie, I'd wanted her to be Storm, back in the day, and, seeing Halle Berry in the role, I'm pretty much at the point of 'anyone *but* Halle Berry.'
|
|
I presume that horrifying ammounts of nerdrage will ensue, now that the movie is out, but i just want to say that i loved it! It was awesome! So awesome in fact that i want to go and see it one more time. Xavier and Eric were well developed, i finally understand where magneto is coming from.
Also, the story is good and well paced. I loved the small storm cameo, wolverine cameo and when mystique turned into Rebecca Romijin for a moment. Also, all the jokes regarding Xavier's hair were fun. Oh and his pickup line..please...
The only problem i have with the movie is that most of the russian characters can't speak russian for their life...except for Rade Sherbedzija of course.
So, i warmly recommend this film as it is better then all previous x films combined.
wondering if Marvel Studios will just stick to the Avengers gang? is the new spidey movie by Marvel Studios? if Marv Studios ever do an x-men movie, things would feel very different IMO.
Nope, Sony still owns Spidey IIRC, so don't count on any character from the Marvel Universe outside of Spidey's to show up. Same goes for the Fantastic Four, which is why Chris Evans is both Human Torch in FF and Captain America; same comic universe, different movie studios. Not necessarily a bad thing, but goes against one of the things Marvel Studios is trying to promote; one big, connected universe of character movies that all intertwine.
We've seen S.H.I.E.L.D. agents in multiple movies, Iron Man/Tony Stark was in The Hulk, and Marvel wants to keep this up. In the comics, Spidey interacts with a LOT of different hero teams and story lines; it's almost a crime the movie Spidey won't get to do that.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I actually enjoyed the x-men trilogy(yes, even 3), but the Wolverine movie was terrible.+1
-1
Wipe them out. All of them.|
Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
|
I saw the movie yesterday, and ho boy how I liked it. Perheps the best superhero movie I have seen. At least from Marvel. Actors did a great job, especially James McAvoy, Michael Fassbender and Kevin Bacon. Good plot, that was not easy to figure out until the right point. And very good ending. And awesome soundtrack also.
And, the random factor:
I recommend. A great movie.
|
|
I don't think I'm in the mood for an actual review, so I will just say that I liked it, quite a bit, and it made me deeply, deeply angry about how badly X3 screwed up everything. Oh, what might have been...
Also, James McAvoy really is ****ing incredible. Don't think I've seen him in a movie where he didn't blow me away.
|
|
I don't think I'm in the mood for an actual review, so I will just say that I liked it, quite a bit, and it made me deeply, deeply angry about how badly X3 screwed up everything. Oh, what might have been...
Also, James McAvoy really is ****ing incredible. Don't think I've seen him in a movie where he didn't blow me away.
S'ok... all these movies don't count anywayz... they will start counting when Marvel Studios do an X-Men movie.
This probably won't happen until at least 4 or 5 years from now, so...
Michael Rosenbaum for Prof. X !!!!! (lex luther, smallville)
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1888598272/nm0742146
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0742146/
|
|
It was decent for what it was. Every comic book movie has more or less played fast and loose with accuracy, and this one is certainly no different.
I'd pay to see a 'Erik Lensherr, Nazi Hunter' movie, based on the snippets we saw of that here.
Azazel and the Beast had a very dynamic fight, which was fun to see.
There was some humor, some of which felt forced, but others were laugh out loud.
Various concepts were tied together in ways that they never were in the comics, but made sense in the shared continuity of the X-films, so I was cool with the early friendship between Mystique and the Beast, for instance, or the origin of the telepathy-blocking helmet that Magneto wears in later movies.
A few changes felt like change for changes sake, and mildly annoyed me, like Banshee, who started out in the comics in trouble with the law, losing that out to 'cool kid' Havok instead.
To a lesser extent, the movie felt like a collection of cool moments, with weak connective tissue tying it all together, like a lower-budget version of something Michael Bay would produce. I'm not convinced it was high cinema, but it wasn't as eye-rollingly bad as X3, by any means.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I enjoyed it.
The three cameos amused me*, the scene with young Charles and with young Mystique was touching (a little creepy, but touching) And I want to see more of Jennifer Lawrence. I think she's going to be an oscar winner someday. I also liked Azrael, impressive since the character's introduction was from a low point in the franchise.
My only pet peeve would be that I think Sebastian Shaw was misused**.
*
**
Raven was my favorite character in the movie thogh.
I saw the movie; wasnt impressed; thought it was so so. Liked the beginning more than the middle or the end. With all the paranoia I can see how this can lead to the development of Trask's Sentinals and other major storylines as they have introduced all the players in important political positions.
Beast; I think his color blue should be a lot darker; but maybe that happens when he is older; also needs to gain a couple hundred pounds. I can see why they might want to stay away from Disney; but Beauty and the Beast works so dont knock it. I think he should look a bit more like that, but some people think more like a Great Ape; so....
I can't get over how some people seem incapable of realizing that comic book movies create a new continuity.I just can't get over how a movie about the "original" x-men, doesn't have the "original" x-men in it.The Beast was an original. Havok and Polaris are debatable.
Comic continuity aside I have movie continuity issues if they're tying them all together:
I can't get over how some people seem incapable of realizing that comic book movies create a new continuity.I just can't get over how a movie about the "original" x-men, doesn't have the "original" x-men in it.The Beast was an original. Havok and Polaris are debatable.
It sticks in most people's craws like dry cotton. There's little that can be done about that.