I posted this in the rules question section, but people seem to have ignored it, so I am posting it here since it could fit in as advice as well.
I am new to the construct rules and all, but this construct armor looks VERY appealing to me, but I am having trouble figuring out this effect, specifically the last paragraph. Since attacks to you use the construct's hit points, not yours, why does the last paragraph says the armor acts as a breastplate?
Second question; could you add CPs to a full golem?
Third question; what would it take for a fighter to be able to make and use such a creation? I am guessing extensive use magical device checks, as well as items that can cast the proper spells frequently enough, as well as the "make whole" spell a few times per day.
Fourth; what would be the possible benefits from wearing a construct armor? If the construct could fly, would you also be able to?
Thanks
I posted this in the rules question section, but people seem to have ignored it, so I am posting it here since it could fit in as advice as well.
I am new to the construct rules and all, but this construct armor looks VERY appealing to me, but I am having trouble figuring out this effect, specifically the last paragraph. [1] Since attacks to you use the construct's hit points, not yours, why does the last paragraph says the armor acts as a breastplate?
[2]Second question; could you add CPs to a full golem?[3]Third question; what would it take for a fighter to be able to make and use such a creation? I am guessing extensive use magical device checks, as well as items that can cast the proper spells frequently enough, as well as the "make whole" spell a few times per day.
[4]Fourth; what would be the possible benefits from wearing a construct armor? If the construct could fly, would you also be able to?
Thanks
[1] Wearing a construct as armor grants certain bonuses and penalties;
-AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure equal to wearing a breastplate-Any attacks directed at the wearer first target the construct. This means that damage dealt is first reduced by the constructs damage reduction. Then applied to the constructs health. Any defensive measures the construct has will apply to these attacks as well. Such as an iron golem's Immunity to Magic.
Since these are the only benefits listed this is all you receive. You are not riding around inside of the golem like a mech. You do not receive any of the constructs attacks or special abilities while it is donned as armor.
[2]CP's are only used during the construction of objects as per the rules on page 14 of the Bestiary.
[3] A fighter would have to have the feats Craft Construct (this requires a caster level of 5, and Craft Wondrous Item), Craft Magic Arms and Armor (this requires a caster level of 5), they would have to have access to the spells required to create the golem they wish to wear (this could be provided by another caster), and they would have to meet the caster level required to create the golem they wish to wear.
Long story short, probably not going to happen...
[4] Answered in [1]
You get a Breastplate (all the normal mundane stats), except when someone targets you with an attack, the Hit Point damage from that attack is applied to the construct instead the wearer.
A Fighter can't qualify to create a golem. Creating a golem requires a caster level, but Master Craftsman does not qualify Craft Golem. If a GM allowed Master Craftsman to qualify, than a Golem Manual would be very helpful as golems usually take several spells, each of which would increase the DC by 5. Without a manual, a Stone Golem would be a DC 39, with the manual it's DC 19 and you get a +5 to your Craft (Sculpture) checks in the process.
My main question concerning Construct Armor, is if its Spell Resistance still applies to targeted spells.
Thanks!
Just wonder if there is a mithril golem listed anywhere in PF now.
You get a Breastplate (all the normal mundane stats), except when someone targets you with an attack, the Hit Point damage from that attack is applied to the construct instead the wearer.
A Fighter can't qualify to create a golem. Creating a golem requires a caster level, but Master Craftsman does not qualify Craft Golem. If a GM allowed Master Craftsman to qualify, than a Golem Manual would be very helpful as golems usually take several spells, each of which would increase the DC by 5. Without a manual, a Stone Golem would be a DC 39, with the manual it's DC 19 and you get a +5 to your Craft (Sculpture) checks in the process.
My main question concerning Construct Armor, is if its Spell Resistance still applies to targeted spells.
Master CraftsmanYour superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.
Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.
Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.
Craft Construct
"Caster level 5th, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item."Nothing here seems restricting a person with Master Craftsman. Also as listed in item creation, you need the ability to cast the spells of item creation 8 times or so. So if you want to dedicate yourself to creating a specific golem, getting items to cat it for you could be possible, and even cheaper if requiring use magical device skill needs to be implamented.
Master Craftsman specifically qualifies you for Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Item... it does NOT qualify you for any other Craft [Blank] feats. Craft Construct is a separate feat and while you need those two feats to qualify, Master Craftsmen does not bypass the "Caster Level 5th" for that specific feat. It's not that Craft Construct restricts Master Craftsman, it's that Master Craftsman does not grant access to Craft Construct.
If I were a GM, I would probably allow the player to take it, as it isn't a very useful feat normally and essentially requires the player to focus his non-spell caster on creating this one item. None the less, it would not be RAW.
Master Craftsman specifically qualifies you for Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Item... it does NOT qualify you for any other Craft [Blank] feats. Craft Construct is a separate feat and while you need those two feats to qualify, Master Craftsmen does not bypass the "Caster Level 5th" for that specific feat. It's not that Craft Construct restricts Master Craftsman, it's that Master Craftsman does not grant access to Craft Construct.
If I were a GM, I would probably allow the player to take it, as it isn't a very useful feat normally and essentially requires the player to focus his non-spell caster on creating this one item. None the less, it would not be RAW.
$#$@, you are right.
Thanks!
Just wonder if there is a mithril golem listed anywhere in PF now.
Bestiary 2. :)
Bestiary 2. :)Thanks!
Just wonder if there is a mithril golem listed anywhere in PF now.
Thanks! Light armor construct golem! XD
im kind of curious what it would actually look like. clock work power armour?
Just cross class into magus for 4 levels and take the magical Nack trait for a +2 to caster level giving you a caster level of 6 and the ability to a lot of scrolls.
I do think it is too costly my self, you are spending three feats, and alot of gold. Just the modification cost 35k and that is on top of the cost of the contruct. You would not be able to pull this off until around level 10 or higher.
im kind of curious what it would actually look like. clock work power armour?
Yeah, Iron, Mithral and other metal golems would look like armor. Other types, could be interesting.
$#$@, you are right.Master Craftsman specifically qualifies you for Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Item... it does NOT qualify you for any other Craft [Blank] feats. Craft Construct is a separate feat and while you need those two feats to qualify, Master Craftsmen does not bypass the "Caster Level 5th" for that specific feat. It's not that Craft Construct restricts Master Craftsman, it's that Master Craftsman does not grant access to Craft Construct.
If I were a GM, I would probably allow the player to take it, as it isn't a very useful feat normally and essentially requires the player to focus his non-spell caster on creating this one item. None the less, it would not be RAW.
There are a few ways to go about doing this:
1.) Fightery levels x6, Wizard 1 level, Arcane Archer at least 6th - total character level 13th (base Wizard CL 5th). Should build up the necessary nest egg. Catch is getting the predecessor feats, although you can do that via Master Craftsman selected several times. Arcane Armor feat(s) required to bypass the pesky ASF.
2.) Magus, take Craft Wondrous at 3rd, Craft Magic Arms & Armor at 5th, Craft Construct at 7th. You can now build your "golem armor" ... excepting that whole "money" thing. The facilities and raw materials are not exactly cheap.
3.) I would have no problem with a pure Fightery type taking Master Craftsman several times - once for each requisite Craft / Profession skill used in making various types of golems. This list gets pretty extensive though, and you'll probably have to invest additional general feats into ramping up the skill bonus, in part to compensate for not meeting the prerequisites as easily.
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You could do 5 levels of wizard and take the New Discovery thing once For the Type of Golem armor youw ant.
$#$@, you are right.Master Craftsman specifically qualifies you for Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Item... it does NOT qualify you for any other Craft [Blank] feats. Craft Construct is a separate feat and while you need those two feats to qualify, Master Craftsmen does not bypass the "Caster Level 5th" for that specific feat. It's not that Craft Construct restricts Master Craftsman, it's that Master Craftsman does not grant access to Craft Construct.
If I were a GM, I would probably allow the player to take it, as it isn't a very useful feat normally and essentially requires the player to focus his non-spell caster on creating this one item. None the less, it would not be RAW.
There are a few ways to go about doing this:
1.) Fightery levels x6, Wizard 1 level, Arcane Archer at least 6th - total character level 13th (base Wizard CL 5th). Should build up the necessary nest egg. Catch is getting the predecessor feats, although you can do that via Master Craftsman selected several times. Arcane Armor feat(s) required to bypass the pesky ASF.
2.) Magus, take Craft Wondrous at 3rd, Craft Magic Arms & Armor at 5th, Craft Construct at 7th. You can now build your "golem armor" ... excepting that whole "money" thing. The facilities and raw materials are not exactly cheap.
3.) I would have no problem with a pure Fightery type taking Master Craftsman several times - once for each requisite Craft / Profession skill used in making various types of golems. This list gets pretty extensive though, and you'll probably have to invest additional general feats into ramping up the skill bonus, in part to compensate for not meeting the prerequisites as easily.
A little curious here.
1. Wouldn't EK be better and easier to qualify for? Or are you talking about the ability to cast in armor? I don't know Arcane Archer that well.
2. Magus is an option. I just would end up going to EK as soon as possible.
3. Yeah.... I probably would only choose ONE craft type, armor, which should cover all the metal type golems.
Still trying to figure if this is really worth it. I am tempted to write up a PrC for a fighter type to make construct armor as a class feature. If Unearthed Arcana is open, then the Item Familiar would probably be the BEST option if I am only interested in having one metal golem. Hmm I could have charges/day of pollymorph any object to temporarally change the metal type in a pinch XD ... Probably not.
After looking back in the first Bestiary entry on constructs...
Am I just missing it, or does it say anywhere in the entry on Construct Armor that a shield guardian variant of a golem cannot receive this modification? If it can be done, then a fighter-type could (theoretically) commission a spellcaster to make the construct armor for him, and (so long as he wears the control amulet) he could use it.
The only thing that makes the ides a bit shaky to me is the wording about construct armor being "worn like armor by its creator" (emphasis mine). But golems normally only obey their creator anyway - with the exception of shield guardian variants...
Just my fevered, pre-caffeinated Friday musings...apologies for the ramble ;)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
After looking back in the first Bestiary entry on constructs...
Am I just missing it, or does it say anywhere in the entry on Construct Armor that a shield guardian variant of a golem cannot receive this modification? If it can be done, then a fighter-type could (theoretically) commission a spellcaster to make the construct armor for him, and (so long as he wears the control amulet) he could use it.
The only thing that makes the ides a bit shaky to me is the wording about construct armor being "worn like armor by its creator" (emphasis mine). But golems normally only obey their creator anyway - with the exception of shield guardian variants...
Just my fevered, pre-caffeinated Friday musings...apologies for the ramble ;)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
The shield guardian variant is the ideal one to work with I would think. It is also beastly hard to qualify for if memory serves. :)
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A little curious here.
1. Wouldn't EK be better and easier to qualify for? Or are you talking about the ability to cast in armor? I don't know Arcane Archer that well.
2. Magus is an option. I just would end up going to EK as soon as possible.
3. Yeah.... I probably would only choose ONE craft type, armor, which should cover all the metal type golems.Still trying to figure if this is really worth it. I am tempted to write up a PrC for a fighter type to make construct armor as a class feature. If Unearthed Arcana is open, then the Item Familiar would probably be the BEST option if I am only interested in having one metal golem. Hmm I could have charges/day of pollymorph any object to temporarally change the metal type in a pinch XD ... Probably not.
Arcane Archer comes with some entertaining abilities. The most important of which is " retains full BAB, keep 7/10ths CL " from the point of several of your recent posts over the past few months. Also, the main focus is smooshing things with the golem-suit and any bow you're tooling around with - the whole "immune to magic" thing does have its drawbacks... the Arcane Archer can work around it a bit easier, not to mention the class ability/feature AA picks up at the 2nd level of the prestige class. Also, unlike EK, Arcane Archer doesn't require proficiency with all martial weapons.
Neither Arcane Archer nor EK gain any specific ability to ignore ASF - bards and magus do. EK from Magus seems really ... odd for some reason. What's worse, however, for the golem-wearer guy, is that the spells you need access to are simply not on your spell list as a Magus. Ever (that I can tell). This makes golem crafting especially arduous for a Magus-EK.
I would think - without referencing the document - that you MUST have sufficient Craft (armor) to accompany the other Craft skill(s) necessary, since you are building the Golem to be worn. Since it's worn like a breastplate, you have to deal with it as such.
Skimming through golems real quick I note the following for consideration.
- Craft - alchemy: 1 golem (alchemical)
- Craft - armor OR weapons: 1 golem (iron) <-- note the two-hit-wonder status from rust monsters.
- Craft (leather) or Heal: 2 golems (carrion, flesh) <-- probably not ones you want to 'wear' ... eeewww ...
- Craft (clocks) or (locksmith): 1 golem (Clockwork)
- Craft (pottery): 1 golem (clay) <-- overlaps with (sculptures)
- Craft (stonemasonry): 1 golem (stone) <-- overlaps with (sculptures)
- Craft - sculpture: 6 golems (adamantine, clay, glass, ice, mithral, stone). The king of golem-making skills, period.
A particularly NASTY "golem crafter fightery" build is Wizard 12/Arcane Archer 2+ (13th+ for Arcane Archer 1st). Wizard 5 and 10 provides Craft Wondrous/Craft Magic Arms and Armor. 11th provides Craft Construct. General feats: 1st for Point Blank Shot, 3rd for WF (longbow or shortbow), 5th for Precise Shot. A human wizard can set up to qualify for Arcane Archer in terms of feats at 3rd level. Then take 12 levels of Wizard. At 13th pick up Arcane Archer - at 14th level (CL 13th as a Wizard), you can sling anti-magic field arrows upon thine enemies.
Going the non-human route, you still have the general feats left over from 7th, 9th and 13th levels. Becoming an arcane archer at 13th also takes care of the pesky problems with lack of armor proficiency (among other things), so you don't need to burn precious feats on doing so in order to wear your shield guardian mithral golem. At 13th - your first level of Arcane Archer - you learn Craft Construct, leaving your 7th and 9th level general feats still open. You're only 1 level behind on CL at 13th, an easily remedied drawback via trait or ioun stone. At 16th when you're back two CL the trait picks up the CL slack for you. Spells/day and spell level are very close to character level (14th wizard, SL 7th, CL 16th with the one trait). You don't need the ioun stone until 21st level. :)
Just by the by, crafting a shield guardian mithral golem requires a caster level of 20th, costs a minimum of 175,000 gp out of pocket and (presumably) loses a great deal of its abilities when you're wearing it. Even at 20th that's a substantial chunk of your WBL...
Item Familiar ? Oh no, not again. polymorph any object won't work on golems any way - well, excepting very specific circumstances of its use, none of which are what you're wanting it to do.
Unless there is a way to make smaller versions of golems, there is no way for one to make most golems into a common usable construct armor, as the construct must be of the same size as the wearer.
Unless there is a way to make smaller versions of golems, there is no way for one to make most golems into a common usable construct armor, as the construct must be of the same size as the wearer.
Same size or same size or larger? I thought it was the latter, but don't have a book at the moment.
Unless there is a way to make smaller versions of golems, there is no way for one to make most golems into a common usable construct armor, as the construct must be of the same size as the wearer.Same size or same size or larger? I thought it was the latter, but don't have a book at the moment.
The modification does not mention size at all.
Also remember, you don't gain any of the constructs ability scores, attacks, or special abilities.
Unless there is a way to make smaller versions of golems, there is no way for one to make most golems into a common usable construct armor, as the construct must be of the same size as the wearer.Same size or same size or larger? I thought it was the latter, but don't have a book at the moment.The modification does not mention size at all.
Also remember, you don't gain any of the constructs ability scores, attacks, or special abilities.
You gain the biggest benefit from the important detail of (paraphrasing) "effects that target you target the golem first". in and of itself that's pretty formidable.
You gain the biggest benefit from the important detail of (paraphrasing) "effects that target you target the golem first". in and of itself that's pretty formidable.Unless there is a way to make smaller versions of golems, there is no way for one to make most golems into a common usable construct armor, as the construct must be of the same size as the wearer.Same size or same size or larger? I thought it was the latter, but don't have a book at the moment.The modification does not mention size at all.
Also remember, you don't gain any of the constructs ability scores, attacks, or special abilities.
Such as spells of which golems are immune to most.
Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creator
Must be the same size, as the creator and the creator is the only one who can use the construct armor. There are VERY few constructs that are medium size.
Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creatorMust be the same size, as the creator and the creator is the only one who can use the construct armor. There are VERY few constructs that are medium size.
If you missed it in the Bestiary, dropping a Large to a Medium halves HD (and thus cost and hp).
Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creatorMust be the same size, as the creator and the creator is the only one who can use the construct armor. There are VERY few constructs that are medium size.
Nice catch, I was looking in the actual wording. That makes this even cheaper and better.
If you missed it in the Bestiary, dropping a Large to a Medium halves HD (and thus cost and hp).Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creatorMust be the same size, as the creator and the creator is the only one who can use the construct armor. There are VERY few constructs that are medium size.
80 ....
WOOT! Thank you.
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I am SO going to make myself a high level summoner (synthesist) with construct armor.
The rules questions it will generate and the clarifications that will be needed to make it work are going to be mindboggingly plentiful. :D
It will also end up being a melee beast with effectively over a thousand hit points.
Can't wear your huge construct? I beg to differ. Transform into your huge eidolon and THEN wear it. Multi-form anime monstrosity here I come! :D
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A lot of these questions were asked when UM first came out, but I don't think they've ever been answered to date (if there have been any updates, please point me towards them!).
A couple of points to chew on...
The size limit on Construct Armour is in the requirements line: +5 DC to just ignore it (yes, you can have a giant mech...).
Also, the book states...
'So long as the creator wears it, the construct takes no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator...'
... which seems to imply that the Construct Armour isn't just there for some defense, but that while you're wearing it you get to control its actions (yes, you can have a giant mech...).