AOO and Step up and Strike

[Valandil Ancalime]

PRD wrote:

Step Up (Combat)

Benefit: Whenever an adjacent foe attempts to take a 5-foot step away from you, you may also make a 5-foot step as an immediate action so long as you end up adjacent to the foe that triggered this ability. If you take this step, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn. If you take an action to move during your next turn, subtract 5 feet from your total movement.

Following Step (Combat)
Benefit: When using the Step Up feat to follow an adjacent foe, you may move up to 10 feet. You may still take a 5-foot step during your next turn, and any movement you make using this feat does not subtract any distance from your movement during your next turn.

Normal: You can only take a 5-foot step to follow an opponent using Step Up.

Step Up and Strike (Combat)
Benefit: When using the Step Up or Following Step feats to follow an adjacent foe, you may also make a single melee attack against that foe at your highest base attack bonus. This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round.

Normal: You can usually only take one standard action and one 5-foot step each round.

Questions; (assiume Combat Reflexes, so multiple AOO are possible)

1- If you use these feats to follow a target that moves more than 5', how many attacks do you get, 1 for SuaS or 2 SuaS + an Aoo for movement (as it leaves a threatened hex)? In other words, does the SuaS attack (which "counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round") count as the movement provoked Aoo or is it seperate from that?

2- Given the proper circumstances, can you use these feats against multiple targets?

[Rogue Eidolon]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

PRD wrote:

Step Up (Combat)

Benefit: Whenever an adjacent foe attempts to take a 5-foot step away from you, you may also make a 5-foot step as an immediate action so long as you end up adjacent to the foe that triggered this ability. If you take this step, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn. If you take an action to move during your next turn, subtract 5 feet from your total movement.

Following Step (Combat)
Benefit: When using the Step Up feat to follow an adjacent foe, you may move up to 10 feet. You may still take a 5-foot step during your next turn, and any movement you make using this feat does not subtract any distance from your movement during your next turn.

Normal: You can only take a 5-foot step to follow an opponent using Step Up.

Step Up and Strike (Combat)
Benefit: When using the Step Up or Following Step feats to follow an adjacent foe, you may also make a single melee attack against that foe at your highest base attack bonus. This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round.

Normal: You can usually only take one standard action and one 5-foot step each round.

Questions; (assiume Combat Reflexes, so multiple AOO are possible)

1- If you use these feats to follow a target that moves more than 5', how many attacks do you get, 1 for SuaS or 2 SuaS + an Aoo for movement (as it leaves a threatened hex)? In other words, does the SuaS attack (which "counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round") count as the movement provoked Aoo or is it seperate from that?

2- Given the proper circumstances, can you use these feats against multiple targets?

1) Yes, you get the AoO and the Step up and Strike attack (you also get both if they move back five feet, you follow and strike, and then they shoot a bow without having Point Blank Mastery).

2) I don't think 'proper circumstances' can possibly exist, since it's still an Immediate Action to use these feats, and you only get one of those per round. If you had a special ability that gave you multiple immediate actions, however, you could use this against any number of enemies.

[Grick]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

1- If you use these feats to follow a target that moves more than 5'

A 5-foot step is a special Miscellaneous action. It doesn't provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square, and it can't be taken with any other kind of movement. Since Step Up can only be used when a foe attempts to take a 5-foot step (and not a withdraw or standard move) this can't happen.

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

2- Given the proper circumstances, can you use these feats against multiple targets?

I don't see why not, if all the conditions are met.

-edit- I'm wrong on #2, while SUaS doesn't use up an action, it still relies on Step Up, which is an immediate action, so Rogue Eidolon is correct.

[AvalonXQ]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

2- Given the proper circumstances, can you use these feats against multiple targets?

Using the feats requires an immediate action, so no. You're limited to doing this once per turn.

[Valandil Ancalime]

Good point about it being an immediate action, I had forgotten that little detail.

[AvalonXQ]

It's nice that Following Step lets you keep your adjust and movement for the next turn, but I think it should also let you keep your swift action for the next turn. After all, you're expending a feat on something pretty situational.

[Grick]

I wish they would clarify that Following Step doesn't (or shouldn't) provoke. It's using the same action as Step Up, but it's not really a 5-foot step. You could even argue that, by giving you the 5'-step back, it's saying that it's just 10' of free movement (which could provoke).

[Irontruth]

Clarification would be nice. I can't think of another Swift or Immediate Action that draws an AoO, so I would probably rule in favor of it not drawing an AoO.

[udalrich]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

Questions; (assiume Combat Reflexes, so multiple AOO are possible)
1- If you use these feats to follow a target that moves more than 5', how many attacks do you get, 1 for SuaS or 2 SuaS + an Aoo for movement (as it leaves a threatened hex)? In other words, does the SuaS attack (which "counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round") count as the movement provoked Aoo or is it seperate from that?

If your opponent is moving more than 5 feet, he is not taking a 5 foot step and step up does not trigger. Since the remaining feats says "when using Step Up (or Following Step)", none of the feats in the chain are useful in this circumstance.

The only time this might apply is if the opponent is also using Following Step (or SUaS) and you have decided that the 10 feet of movement is part of your 5 foot step.

[Valandil Ancalime]

That's a good point. I just assumed that since Following Step allowed 10' of movement, then you could use it to follow someone moving 10+'. I guess what it means is that you can adjust position if you want to. Say a foe moves 5' directly away from you, you can adjust to their side.

P=Pc
O=Opponent
x=empty square

start with:
xxx
POx
xxx
Opponent moves 5' to:
xxx
PxO
xxx
Pc could move to any of these locations
xPP
xPO
xPP

As previously raised, does the 10' movement provoke an Aoo?

[Galnörag]

Seemed like the best thread to add this question to, and I can't find it in other places. The wording of Step up and Strike, specifically: "This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round." has me confused. So it counts against your # of AoO, but is it itself an AoO for the purposes of feats like Paired Opportunist (assuming an ally is in an appropriate threat?)

[Balgin]

Galnörag wrote:

Seemed like the best thread to add this question to, and I can't find it in other places. The wording of Step up and Strike, specifically: "This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round." has me confused. So it counts against your # of AoO, but is it itself an AoO for the purposes of feats like Paired Opportunist (assuming an ally is in an appropriate threat?)

Well Step Up takes 5' off your move next round. Following Step does not reduce your available movement next round. Step Up and Strike is basically saying that while this does count as an attack of opportunity (this round), it does not count as a move action next round, or an attack of opportunity next round (as they refresh at the start of your turn), and that it does not take up a standard action next round (for the attack) either.

[Galnörag]

Balgin wrote:

Galnörag wrote:

Seemed like the best thread to add this question to, and I can't find it in other places. The wording of Step up and Strike, specifically: "This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round." has me confused. So it counts against your # of AoO, but is it itself an AoO for the purposes of feats like Paired Opportunist (assuming an ally is in an appropriate threat?)

Well Step Up takes 5' off your move next round. Following Step does not reduce your available movement next round. Step Up and Strike is basically saying that while this does count as an attack of opportunity (this round), it does not count as a move action next round, or an attack of opportunity next round (as they refresh at the start of your turn), and that it does not take up a standard action next round (for the attack) either.

Balgin, my question was related, but not the same as the original posters, I was just trying to leverage a related thread to consolidate knowledge.

The question, said more deliberately:

Does the attack granted from Step Up and Strike count as an Attack of Opportunity for the purposes of feats/abilities that modify/trigger from Attacks of Opportunity, or does it just consume one of your available attacks of opportunity for the round while not actually counting as an Attack of Opportunity

[Pizza Lord]

Galnörag wrote:

Does the attack granted from Step Up and Strike count as an Attack of Opportunity for the purposes of feats/abilities that modify/trigger from Attacks of Opportunity, or does it just consume one of your available attacks of opportunity for the round while not actually counting as an Attack of Opportunity

No, it is not an Attack of Opportunity. It won't trigger bonuses or feats you have that apply to your attacks of opportunity. Similarly, defenses a target has against Attacks of Opportunity will not apply. It uses one of your available uses of AoO, but is not an AoO. It will not interrupt or allow you to stop an enemy action. Unless they specifically write or change the wording sometime in the future, that's how it's written and read.

[ShieldLawrence]

I'd say "counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round" could be reasonably interpreted as counting as an AoO for things that boost them or defend against them. There is no provocation happening, so things that trigger off of provoking an AoO don't happen.