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I've been thinking about how to build what I'm calling the "Mist Assassin." It's a Waves Oracle/Rogue that specializes in stealth and cutting off single prey from the world before slaying.
It's a tough build, so I'd like to hear your advice.
The stats in order of importance are Dex>Cha>Str>Con>Wis>Int. I do not expect a full caster.
If we have a 20-point buy character, this is what I'm thinking:
Str 12
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 16
Race: Half-Elf. Choose Skill Focus: Stealth and Multitalented: Oracle, Rogue.
Level 1: Waves Oracle. Choose the Deaf Curse. Traits: Magical Knack (Oracle), Elven Reflexes. Feat: Improved Initiative. Skills: Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Stealth. Choose Inflict spells. Revelation: Water Sight. Spells: Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light, Inflict Light, Obscuring Mist, Shield of Faith.
L2: Oracle. Spells: Touch of the Sea, Mending.
L3: Rogue(Acrobat). Skills: 2 ranks each in Climb and Swim, in addition to Acrobatics, Escape Artist, and Stealth. Feat: Point Blank Shot.
L4: Oracle. Revelation: Fluid Nature. Spell: Doom. +1 CHA.
L5: Oracle. Spells: Slipstream, Guidance, Inflict Moderate, Silence. Feat: Reach Spell.
L6: Rogue. Skills as before, Fast Getaway. Deaf Curse improves.
I'm thinking Oracle, Oracle, Rogue from here on out. There's a lot of moving parts and a lot of choices to make. Main weapons are a ranged weapon and the longspear. Thoughts?
How do you plan on doing damage? With your weapons or your Inflict spells? I'm pretty sure Weapons will do better in almost all cases, especially since they don't have a Save for Half component, so I'd try to focus on that.
What other powers are you going for? It seems like you just want Water Sight, and are building the build around that. Is that right?
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Weapons would be the main source of damage, definitely. Since this is going to be a debuffer/attacker, healing isn't the character's role.
I am going for maximum maneuverability.
The revelations planned are as follows:
Oracle 1: Water Sight. Yes, this is key with Obscuring Mist.
Oracle 3: Fluid Nature. CMD bonuses for escape, and Dodge as a bonus feat at 5th.
Oracle 7: Water Form. Being able to flow into/through tight areas and hide in bodies of water are part of the feel.
Oracle 11: I'm not sure here. Either Punitive Transformation for a major debuff, or Wintry Touch so that all weapons are frost weapons.
With my other levels in Rogue, that's as far as I go for revelations.
You raise a good point that the weapons are more important than the spells for damage. In that case, perhaps ability bonuses should go to Dex and the feat chain should look like:
1. Improved Initiative
3. Point Blank Shot
5. Rapid Shot
7. Deadly Aim, Dodge (for free)
9. Manyshot
11. Mobility
13. Shot on the Run
15. Wind Stance
17. Lightning Stance
19. Extra Revelation? Extra Rogue Talent?
You can essentially pull off this idea by grabbing a Goz Mask (8k gp, from Inner Sea Guide) and the ability to cast Obscuring Mist.
As such, you could go with a simple Rogue Archer (or regular archer) build and a couple levels in sorcerer or specialist wizard (conjuration). It's a little shortcut, but less flavorful.
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Just trying to extend this...
Str 12
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 16
Race: Half-Elf. Choose Ancestral Arms (Chakram) and Multitalented: Oracle, Rogue.
Level 1: Waves Oracle. Choose the Deaf Curse. Traits: Magical Knack (Oracle), Elven Reflexes. Feat: Improved Initiative. Skills: Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Stealth. Choose Inflict spells. Revelation: Water Sight. Spells: Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light, Inflict Light, Obscuring Mist, Shield of Faith.
L2: Oracle. Spells: Touch of the Sea, Mending.
L3: Rogue(Acrobat). Skills: 2 ranks each in Climb and Swim, in addition to Acrobatics, Escape Artist, and Stealth. Feat: Point Blank Shot.
L4: Oracle. Revelation: Fluid Nature. Spell: Divine Favor. +1 DEX.
L5: Oracle. Spells: Slipstream, Guidance, Inflict Moderate, Silence. Feat: Quick Draw.
L6: Rogue. Skills as before, Combat Trick: Two-Weapon Fighting. Deaf Curse improves.
L7: Oracle. Spells: Purify Food & Drink, Divine Favor, Grace. Feat: Deadly Aim. Receive Dodge for free (Fluid Nature).
L8: Oracle. Spells: Water Breathing, Prayer, Inflict Serious. +1 DEX.
L9: Rogue. Sneak Attack +2d6. Feat: Rapid Shot.
L10: Oracle. Revelation: Water Form. Spells: Hide from Undead, Daylight, Spiritual Weapon.
L11: Oracle. Spells: Divine Power, Wall of Ice, Inflict Critical. Feat: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.
L12: Rogue. Talent: Fast Getaway. Uncanny Dodge. +1 DEX. No more initiative penalties, and Scent.
Found the Goz Mask!
By the way, does anyone have any advice for RP with a deaf oracle? I haven't seen anything yet, but the rules are so lacking on communicating with the deaf, it's hard to say what would be done.
Make up a sign language and have the party members spend a skill point to learn it.
See if you can use Perception to read lips.
Found the Goz Mask!
By the way, does anyone have any advice for RP with a deaf oracle? I haven't seen anything yet, but the rules are so lacking on communicating with the deaf, it's hard to say what would be done.
Make up a sign language and have the party members spend a skill point to learn it.
See if you can use Perception to read lips.
+1
Hand Cant or something like that would work. I really like the lipreading suggestion too. That said, communication in combat will be really hard with some sort of signing since hands will all be full for most characters.
Get Telepathic Bond when you can permanent it later on!
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A couple of things:
I presented this idea to Bulmahn last year at Gen Con. He laughed for a bit and then said it's cool but not "broken" or "overpowered."
I have one of these for PFS play, but I've only gotten to play it once. I've built him as a Ninja/Oracle instead of Rogue.
Here's the basics of the build:
Oracle 1 / Ninja X
16 Dex 16 Strength 12 Charisma
Feats focus on being a switch hitter. Rapid Shot is the most important at first level (if you're human). Feats that let you hit better aren't really needed as you'll be getting to hit flat-footed AC and get a +2 for not being visible to your enemy. One challenge lies when the creatures come into the mist because they're pissed at being shot up. Having a reach weapon is ideal, along with quickdraw, combat reflexes, etc. That way you can trip'em, AoO 'em, etc. Eventually Entanglement of Blades will allow for a trip lock, all while you're sneaking.
Playing the character is a challenge in confined spaces. Obscuring Mist is great for your character, but a double-edged sword for the rest of the party.
Unless you're hellbent on going Oracle, you can get Obscuring Mist as a straight rogue. Take the minor magic talent (whatever) and then the major magic talent to get obscuring mist at 4th level (3rd if you take the extra rogue talent then).
Unless you're hellbent on going Oracle, you can get Obscuring Mist as a straight rogue. Take the minor magic talent (whatever) and then the major magic talent to get obscuring mist at 4th level (3rd if you take the extra rogue talent then).
Ellington, the reason he needs to go Oracle is because of the powers it gives, not the spells. Water Sight allows him to see through Obscuring Mist. That's the big draw of this build. Plus, he can use Obscuring Mist more often with an Oracle, which'll be useful if he wants to fight more than one enemy.
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I know this is thread necromancy, but I just heard this build referenced in another thread, and looked it up.
This is obscenely cool. I'm stealing it.
Seriously, I'm stealing it. I'll be running this against a party of 4th-level PCs as a CR 7 villain (using an NPC stat array), here's what I've come up with. Note that I'm building him as a ninja, not a rogue, and I'll be favoring both melee and ranged attacks. Also, he's an NPC, so no traits.
That said, here's my take on a CR 7 version of the build:
Str 13
Dex 15 (15 + 1 at 4th)
Con 12
Int 10 (8 + 2 racial)
Wis 10
Cha 14
favored classes
ninja (+5 hp), oracle (+3 hp)
racial traits
Ancestral Arms (flying blade)
Elf Blood
Elven Immunities
Keen Senses
Multitalented (ninja, oracle)
curse: deaf
revelations
Fluid Nature
Water Sight
ninja tricks
Rogue Talent (Fast Getaway)
Shadow Clones
feats
1st - Weapon Focus (flying blade)
3rd - Combat Reflexes
5th - Point-Blank Shot
7th - Extra Rogue Talent (Ninja Trick [Flurry of Stars])
spells
cure light wounds
inflict light wounds
shield of faith
summon monster I
touch of the sea
equipment
+1 chain shirt
+1 flying blade
spiked gauntlet
tanglefoot bags
Ok, so... lemmie talk about the flying blade first (it's from Ultimate Combat). Check this out. With obscuring mist up, I can't be detected at my 10-foot reach. The flying blade is at a -2 to hit with most attacks, but gets a +2 to hit instead with attacks of opportunity provoked by movement. Since the mist hides me, my opponents don't know when they're provoking. So not only are they flat-footed and provoking blindly, but I get a +2 to hit them, and my attacks of op are sneak attacks.
My to-hit seems mediocre at first (+5 BAB, +1 Str, +1 Weapon Focus). But consider that I'll have a +2 on attacks of opportunity and that my opponents will be flat-footed. Damage-wise, the flying blade is a d12 weapon... so with a +1 enhancement, I'm hitting for 1d12+3d6+2. Not bad at all.
Combat Reflexes gives me multiple attacks of opportunity. Whenever possible, I hit-and-run with Fast Getaway to keep my concealed reach advantage. If I want to, I can tanglefoot some poor bastard and reach-sneak-attack or flurry-of-stars (see below) the unlucky git from ten feet away with total concealment until he breaks out.
For ranged attacks, I attack with flurry of stars. Outside of his powerful attacks of op, this should be his go-to attack option. That's three sneak attacks with +1 to hit and damage each from Point-Blank Shot. The damage there works out to 3d2+9d6+6. And I can split it up among multiple flat-footed targets. Hot damn.
EDIT: WAIT! I just realized that I can spend a point from my ki pool to add yet another shuriken to my full attacks. So that's four stars for 4d2+12d6+8. Hot. Damn. My ki pool is 4 (1/2 ninja levels + Cha modifier), so assuming I use Shadow Clones before combat, I can do this up to three times.
Note: I took the "rogue talent" ninja trick to get the rogue talent class feature so I could qualify for the Extra Rogue Talent feat so I could take the rogue talent "ninja trick" as my Extra Rogue Talent, so I could get Flurry of Stars. How's that for a workaround?
Also note that I can even use Fast Getaway after a reach or ranged sneak attack (but not a flurry), keeping the PCs completely in the dark as to where the hell I'm attacking from.
If I need to make a standard melee attack, I hide as a move action and strike with my spiked gauntlet (because the flying blade is useless in melee and has attack penalties). Against high-AC or low-Will-save targets, I attack with inflict light wounds instead. If I'm hidden, casting won't provoke (and nobody can hear me cast it, thanks to my curse).
Defensively, I'm relying a lot on concealment and Shadow Clones. My AC is only 18 (+3 for Dex and +5 for a +1 chain shirt) or 20, with shield of faith. Fluid form helps against some maneuvers and offers some protection from critical hits.
My hp ends up at 55. Not stellar, but not bad either.
Unfortunately, this version of the build is too low-level to have access to the deaf + silence combo, but - as I mentioned earlier - being able to cast spells inside the mist without giving myself away is still very cool. For example, if I'm injured, then I step deeper into the mists and heal myself, I'll be mysteriously uninjured again the next time they catch sight of me (remember, nobody heard me cast a spell). Kinda spooky.
Similarly, I can silently summon monster from total concealment. Out of nowhere, monsters start creeping out of the mists. Very spooky. Thanks to Poison Use, I can stack my own poisons with that of a summoned viper or two.
I realize I could've put my racial +2 into Strength, by the way. Makes sense with a two-handed flying blade, but I opted for Int because - damn it - he's a ninja. If I were really optimizing him, though, I'd probably switch it over.
Overall, this guy works pretty well as a villain, I think. In fact, he might be a little too good. The primary drawbacks to a "lone villain" are:
1). A poor economy of actions; and
2). The villain becomes the target of a lot of focused fire.
By making myself untargetable to most PCs, my economy of actions improves, and "focusing fire" against me becomes all but impossible. Also, in addition to the actions I take on my own turns, I'm making a lot of very powerful attacks of opportunity. Plus, I can throw a flurry of stars on my action, enabling me to decimate single targets or effectively attack up to three PCs per round. Throw in a summoned monster or two, and my economy of actions is looking pretty good.
Not bad for a CR 7 baddie.
dot
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Edited my post, above. I just realized that my ki pool enables me to make four attacks on a flurry of stars action.
So (three times per day), my damage comes out to 4d2+12d6+8. At CR 7.
If I put my racial +2 into Str instead of Int, it's four higher than that.
Granted, my attack bonus is only +7 per star - but remember that I'm hitting flat-footed targets.
Dot: Adding this character idea to my list of alts.
I was wondering when this thread would be bumped again.
Remember the Mistmail from APG. Once per day, it fills your square with mist. And follows you until you deactivate it, or it blows away.
Combine that with some bracers of armor, and you can do this without casting obscuring mist.
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Wow, so... I just realized that this character benefits from total concealment while flurrying and reach-attacking both before and after he attacks. That means he's attacking from invisibility, which gives him a further +2 on his attack rolls (per the invisible condition).
We are NOT looking at a +7 to hit with shuriken attacks.
First of all, his flying blade is hitting flat-footed opponents at +12 (+5 BAB, +1 Strength, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 enhancement bonus, +2 attack of opportunity bonus, +2 invisible condition).
His flurry of stars is hitting flat-footed opponents at +9/+9/+9/+9 (-2 flurry penalty, +5 BAB +3 Dexterity, +1 Point-Blank Shot, +2 invisible condition).
With this in mind, maybe the build should choose the shuriken for a Weapon Focus. That way, the blade hits at +11 and the stars at +10 (or +11 if you pay for masterwork shuriken). Not too shabby.
Also, I'm thinking of dropping Fast Getaway from Extra Rogue Talent for Improved Initiative. Without it, his initiative modifier is -1. This guy really needs to drop obscuring mist in round one. For the most part, he should be dropping the mists during the surprise round with Stealth - but if he's caught by surprise or his mist is dispelled by area fire damage, getting obscuring mist up needs to happen fast.
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I was wondering when this thread would be bumped again.
Remember the Mistmail from APG. Once per day, it fills your square with mist. And follows you until you deactivate it, or it blows away.
Combine that with some bracers of armor, and you can do this without casting obscuring mist.
Good idea. The build still depends on obscuring mist (total concealment is key), but having mistmail active means that the mist assassin can always hide as a move action (which enables sneak attacks and "surprise" reach, even if he's caught outside of his obscuring mist spell).
Plus it's just really thematically appropriate. It's even a chain shirt, which is the armor I've got him in, above.
EDIT: Wanna know something hilarious? I left obscuring mist off of the build. Gonna have to replace cure light wounds, shield of faith, or summon monster I.
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...
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MIST ASSASSIN, CR 7
XP 3,200; NE Medium humanoid (elf)
half-elf ninja 5 / oracle 3
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +10
DEFENSE
AC 18 or 19, touch 13, flat-footed 15 or 16 (+5 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex)
hp 55 (8d8+16)
Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +4; +2 vs. enchantment
Immune magical sleep; Defensive Abilities fluid form (-4 critical confirmation)
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 flying blade +5 (1d12+1, x3, plus poison), +9 with attacks of opportunity; or spiked gauntlet +1 (1d4+1)
Ranged flurry of stars +7/+7/+7 (1d2+1); or shuriken +9 (1d2+1)
Special Attacks poison use, sneak attack +3d6
Oracle Spells (CL 3rd)
1st-level (4/day) – cure light wounds (1d8+3), inflict light wounds (1d8+3 negative energy, DC 13), obscuring mist, shield of faith, touch of the sea
cantrips – bleed (DC 12), detect magic, light, mending, resistance
STATISTICS
Str 13, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Attack +5; CMB +6; CMD 19 (23 vs. bull rush, drag, grapple, reposition, trip)
Feats Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (flying blade), Improved Initiative, Point-Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (shuriken)
Skills Acrobatics +11, Bluff +7, Escape Artist +8, Perception +10, Sense Motive +5, Sleight of Hand +8, Stealth +11, Swim +9
Languages Common, Elven
SQ ancestral weapon, deaf, keen senses, ki pool (4/day), multitalented (ninja, oracle), mystery (waves), ninja tricks (flurry of stars, shadow clones), no trace +1, oracle’s curse (deaf), revelations (fluid form, water sight), uncanny dodge
Gear +1 chain shirt, +1 flying blade, masterwork buckler, spell component pouch, spiked gauntlet, tanglefoot bag (3)
Dotting, and the Goz Mask is cool.
This thread reminds me ofa certain ninja Have him work in enclosed areas. Force PC's to deal with his mist in some way, it would be a fun and brutal encounter. Oh, and find a way to work Combat patrol in there. Maybe if you wanted to make him higher CR, Combat Patrol, Lunge etc.
Interesting ideas here. Tagged for further research.
likewize, a dot
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I like the idea.
Garden, you might consider going Ninja 4 / Oracle 4. You'll loose out on a bit of sneak attack, but gain 2nd level spells and BAB. And I think bless or divine favor would serve you better than inflict light wounds.
The second level spells are key, because the spell you want is Silence. Silence shuts down most spellcasting, spell completion, and spell trigger from the target. But a deaf oracle is unaffected.
can anyone show me in the rules or explain how someone being attacked from the mist is always flatfooted? Or how you always get sneak attack when you attack from the mist? I have read the rules on concealment, fog cloud, flat footed, and cover (not sure that last one had anything to do with it but oh well) and I am just not seeing these things all connect to give SA all the time and a flat footed opponent. I've also read that standing on the edge of the mist allows the same affect but no class or equipment dip as you can see out but they can't see in. Also would this whole build still work if you just used smokesticks?
If your target can't see you they are treated as if you are invisible. You stand in the mist and people outside of it can't see you.
Eyes of the Storm (Ex)
At 2nd level, a sea reaver ignores any concealment provided by fog, rain, sleet, mist, wind, or other weather effects that is less than total concealment, and any penalties weather applies on Perception checks are halved.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Yeah, you've got to stand at least 10' from your target to make sure you've got total concealment. A person who has total concealment from a target is considered invisible to that target, getting you +2 attack and the target loses Dex/dodge bonuses to AC (activating sneak attack).
Since you're looking for total concealment, Eyes of the Storm won't help because thanks to the mist, if they can't see you, you can't see them without something negating it--which Eyes of the Storm doesn't provide ("less than total concealment").
An Ifrit Oracle/Ninja with Firesight could pull off the trick with both mist and smoke. You would have to use a longspear or do without a feat to get exotic weapon proficiency but otherwise the same waves/deaf build applies. Get to Oracle 4 to learn Silence and be a Ninja, a really cool one at that.