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Would you consider it cheesy to have a halfling use the adopted trait to get the Half Orc "Tusked" Racial Trait?
Adopted
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents’ race.Tusked
Huge, sharp tusks bulge from your mouth, and you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5.
I'm pretty sure it's technically legal (though let me know if you can think of some reason it isn't), I'm just wondering if people think it's too ridiculous for their table. Those of you who have a cheese-o-meter where does this rate?
I've decided the un-official cheese rating system should have too parts:
Gorgonzola - (Reeks of Power Gaming)
Swiss - (Filled with Rules holes)
Eye-roller - (Nothing specific, just WTF?!)
What about Monterrey Jack? Soft in the middle and reminds you of Chip'n'Dale Rescue Rangers
I wouldn't allow it.
I would allow small-sized Half-orc. In a joke game.
I am utterly shocked.
The trait CLEARLY envisions possibly being taken by non-Half-Orcs,
since it phrases the bite damage as variable for non-Medium characters.
[/fondueparty]
What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?
Would you consider it cheesy to have a halfling use the adopted trait to get the Half Orc "Tusked" Racial Trait?
Nope. The word I'd use to describe that idea is "stupid" :P.
I am utterly shocked.
The trait CLEARLY envisions possibly being taken by non-Half-Orcs,
since it phrases the bite damage as variable for non-Medium characters.[/fondueparty]
What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?
Quarterling!
What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?
You mean besides some pretty unfortunate implications about this characters origins?
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What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?You mean besides some pretty unfortunate implications about this characters origins?
A very drunk halfling, a stepladder, and an orc woman who lost a bet?
I don't see the alternate as being possible for a variety of reasons.
What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?You mean besides some pretty unfortunate implications about this characters origins?A very drunk halfling, a stepladder, and an orc woman who lost a bet?
I don't see the alternate as being possible for a variety of reasons.
Where there is a will there is a way my friend -- and probably an web site as well.
I actually don't have any problems with this at all. Considering this is a fantasy setting everything is possible and in fact, probable.
Check out Green Ronin's Bastards & Bloodlines.
CJ
Where is "Tusked"? I assume it's a race trait in an AP or something, because it's not in the default list of traits in the APG.
The APG lists as its Half-Orc Race Traits "Brute" (+1 to Intimidate and it is always a class skill) and "Outcast" (+1 to Survival and it is always a class skill). And I think either of those would be just fine to be taken by a halfling adopted by orcs or in a similar situation.
But I do not see a "Tusked." (Please do correct if I am wrong.)
There is the "Toothy" alternate racial "trait" (where it means racial ability and why could they not come up with another word for that?), which gives you a bite attack in place of the Orc Ferocity ability. Which of course a halfling could not have because they don't have the Orc Ferocity ability to trade for it in the first place. :) (And of course because "racial traits" and "race traits" are two different things, despite the infuriatingly similar terminology.)
If this is an objection to something in a specific AP or Chronicle or what-have-you, should it go in that appropriate subforum?
And as for giving a halfling a 1d3 bite attack... on the cheese scale I actually don't find that so high, but I'd love to hear the player's explanation as to why they want it and what the character's backstory is. (ETA: I was writing this before the PFS got mentioned.)
If I'm missing a joke here, I apologize. Things do tend to go over my head sometimes. :)
So... sounds like people think the cheese is high in this idea.
I think you'd have more fun developing a tribe of wild Halflings. You know, the kind who pull aside their kilts and just whip it out for all to see. They cop a squat and drop a load wherever and whenever. These guys have no manners and zero understanding od the word tact. And they'll take anybody into their ranks, as long as they're useful.
Heck, why not have a Half-orc take a Halfling trait?
*Personally,* I would just ... well, no, I'm not supposed to say things like that out loud. *IMO,* there are obviously differences between -physical- and -cultural- racial traits and just as obviously *IMO* the "Adopted" trait was intended to allow taking one of the *cultural* traits of the adoptive society.
But I think the "filed his teeth to fit in" background works - great roleplay opportunities. Poor guy - always trying to fit in, never quite sure where he belongs...
Okay - serious response - the little guy got punched in face and all his teeth fell out. How you gonna chew your food now, junior? How 'bout dentures, in the form of orc teeth?
Where is "Tusked"? I assume it's a race trait in an AP or something, because it's not in the default list of traits in the APG.
The APG lists as its Half-Orc Race Traits "Brute" (+1 to Intimidate and it is always a class skill) and "Outcast" (+1 to Survival and it is always a class skill). And I think either of those would be just fine to be taken by a halfling adopted by orcs or in a similar situation.
But I do not see a "Tusked." (Please do correct if I am wrong.)
There is the "Toothy" alternate racial "trait" (where it means racial ability and why could they not come up with another word for that?), which gives you a bite attack in place of the Orc Ferocity ability. Which of course a halfling could not have because they don't have the Orc Ferocity ability to trade for it in the first place. :) (And of course because "racial traits" and "race traits" are two different things, despite the infuriatingly similar terminology.)
If this is an objection to something in a specific AP or Chronicle or what-have-you, should it go in that appropriate subforum?
And as for giving a halfling a 1d3 bite attack... on the cheese scale I actually don't find that so high, but I'd love to hear the player's explanation as to why they want it and what the character's backstory is. (ETA: I was writing this before the PFS got mentioned.)
If I'm missing a joke here, I apologize. Things do tend to go over my head sometimes. :)
This! Adopted can give you Brute, Tunnel fighter, Warrior of old and any of the other racial traits. It cannot give you Toothy, Elven immunities or Dwarven Stability or similar racial traits. This all comes back to the very foolish decision to call two different parts of the rules the same thing.
there is a trait for half orcs in one of the pathfinder companions that gives a bite attack.
i beleive it's in orcs of golarion. and it actually is a trait.
i wouldn't really reccomend it because it will have a great deal of difficulty bypassing damage reduction.
and building yourself around the use of natural weapons can be a pain.
especially when there are fewer efficient reliable resources to augment them compared to manufactured weapons.
i beleive the OP is talking about the trait. not the racial ability, not the feat.
I don't think it's legal what you want to do. I actually had the same idea originally (though not with halflings ;-)) but then I rechecked the rules and realized my mistake.
The "racial traits" the trait refers to IMO are those in the "race traits" section, not a trait listed in the individual races. So you could pick up "brute" or "elven reflexes", but not "tusked".
So no, I would not allow it. It also does not make sense to me: Just being adopted and raised does not give you pointy teeth or similar abilities.
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I don't think it's legal what you want to do. I actually had the same idea originally (though not with halflings ;-)) but then I rechecked the rules and realized my mistake.
The "racial traits" the trait refers to IMO are those in the "race traits" section, not a trait listed in the individual races. So you could pick up "brute" or "elven reflexes", but not "tusked".So no, I would not allow it. It also does not make sense to me: Just being adopted and raised does not give you pointy teeth or similar abilities.
RAW vs intent are two different things and I think by technicality as the feat is written it does allow for it, even if it is...odd.
RAW vs intent are two different things and I think by technicality as the feat is written it does allow for it, even if it is...odd.I don't think it's legal what you want to do. I actually had the same idea originally (though not with halflings ;-)) but then I rechecked the rules and realized my mistake.
The "racial traits" the trait refers to IMO are those in the "race traits" section, not a trait listed in the individual races. So you could pick up "brute" or "elven reflexes", but not "tusked".So no, I would not allow it. It also does not make sense to me: Just being adopted and raised does not give you pointy teeth or similar abilities.
Just checked, there is actually a post by James Jacobs which confirms my view.
You are free to house rule as you want, of course :-)
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Legality
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Confusingly enough there are no fewer than three different ways to get a half orc tusks (adding to the whole confusion over Racial Traits versus Race Traits).
#1 is the "Racial Trait" in the APG (which is NOT what I am referring to)
#2 is the 'Tusked' "Race Trait" in Orcs of Golarion (pg 23) which I was referencing
#3 is the Feat in the APG
I was looking at option #2 which is a "Race Trait" which is one of the two traits you pick up at character creation and thus is legal for using with the adopted trait.
Whether some 'Race traits' should be classified as physical is debatable and sort of aside from the point. The fact is they aren't classified separately.
How he got the tusks?
I figured he's just a freak, who doesn't really KNOW how he got the tusks. My idea was that he was born in Uslalav and cast out into Belkzen at a very young age where Orcs 'adopted' him into the tribe as a sort of mascot. Perhaps there was some orc blood in his line somewhere...
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Just checked, there is actually a post by James Jacobs which confirms my view.
You are free to house rule as you want, of course :-)
You are correct that the 'Adopted' trait doesn't apply to racial traits but as my post above explains that's not the case here.
this reminds me of my favorite character i have ever played, he was a halfling barbarian with the orc blood feat, i played him in 3.0 and 3.5, unfortunately i cant play him in pathfinder because the racial heritage feat is human only. i really really wish that feat had no race requirement, it should be open to all races.
I would put this at a very low cheese level. Barely an Edam. It's rules legal and i can think of many ways a background could support this. I mean if an ancestors one night stand with a succubus can litter the genetic line with sorcerers i so no reason why it couldn't litter it with teeth instead.
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I don't think it's legal what you want to do. I actually had the same idea originally (though not with halflings ;-)) but then I rechecked the rules and realized my mistake.
The "racial traits" the trait refers to IMO are those in the "race traits" section, not a trait listed in the individual races. So you could pick up "brute" or "elven reflexes", but not "tusked".So no, I would not allow it. It also does not make sense to me: Just being adopted and raised does not give you pointy teeth or similar abilities.
Never heard of /tg/'s Goldentusk, eh? ;)
If one cannot grow tusks, they make them!
I don`t know what kind of cheese this is called, but if you`re doing it so you can play your concept of a part Half/Orc, part Halfling character, I say more power to you, and go for it! I`m sure there are EASILY many many easier methods to get a Small Sized character with BIte Attack (those Bird-Men creatures, for one), that are probably more `optimal` for whatever Class Build you would go for, so on that count this is not that stinky of cheese.
Those of you who have a cheese-o-meter where does this rate?
Head cheese?
(Not really cheese, but called cheese anyway?)
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I don`t know what kind of cheese this is called, but if you`re doing it so you can play your concept of a part Half/Orc, part Halfling character, I say more power to you, and go for it! I`m sure there are EASILY many many easier methods to get a Small Sized character with BIte Attack (those Bird-Men creatures, for one), that are probably more `optimal` for whatever Class Build you would go for, so on that count this is not that stinky of cheese.
Well the character is going to probably be used in PFS so there are some pretty significant limits to what races, etc I can use.
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A halfling with a 1d3 bite attack at -5? Go for it, not how I'd personally spend my two traits in PFS but that's all legal until someone from the campaign steps in and says, "Yeah, we're not going to allow that."
It's more funny then cheesy by like a lot. I mean we care about what the trait does and that it's a legal trait to take with Adopted or whatever which it is.
What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?
the very mating.
I'm ok with the rule, 'tough.
With big old chompers, your halfling would be able to eat even the most dangerous cheeses.
Halfling cheese eh? Urban Dictionary returns:
"half cheese
Describes a yellow school bus that is about half the size as a normal buss. Sometimes equiped with a wheelchair ramp."
So its only half "Bus"-ted and has some handicaps. Perfectly feasible imo.
A halfling with a 1d3 bite attack at -5? Go for it, not how I'd personally spend my two traits in PFS but that's all legal until someone from the campaign steps in and says, "Yeah, we're not going to allow that."
It's more funny then cheesy by like a lot. I mean we care about what the trait does and that it's a legal trait to take with Adopted or whatever which it is.
Im going to agree here. When you take bite damage for his size into account. Cheese requires something to actually be more effective then the cost or other options.
The cost of two traits to get a below weapon damage attack isn't mechanically breaking. Now I can see where a bad precedent could set by allowing actualy physical traits taken with adopted, because it just doesn't seem likely that a halfling could grow big teeth.
HOWEVER, we do not take the effect of magic (divine or otherwise) into account. Perhaps the adopted halfling was blessed by the clan shaman and has now manifested big chompers.
It is both perfectly legal with the trait from Orcs of Golarion, and not particularly cheesy. Definitely odd, but not cheesy. It would make for one heck of a back story, though if I were to do it, I would deliberately leave it quite vague, leaving it up to the imagination as to precisely how that particular combination came about.
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I think it's great 0gre, go for it.
I can see this conversation now...
Sorceress Sara : "So, Oscar, where are you from?"
Orcling Oscar :
Bard Billy : "Uh, anyway, Sara, how's your mom and dad doing? I saw you got a letter the other day?"
Sorceress Sara : "Oh, yeah, Dad's business is doing great, and mom is making a dress for the duchess." "My Dad's a brewer, and my mom's a Seamstress."
Orcling Oscar : "Ma Da's a Halfling."
Bard Billy : "Oh, well, of course he is, your mother t..."
Orcling Oscar : "Leave me mum out of this..."
Legal and not cheese.
Now, grab two levels of Ranger with Natural Attacks style and get a matching set of claws on your feet.
Now you are rocking the cheese.
The most efficient way to maximize the use would then be to take Alchemist from there on out, to get two more claw attacks.
Alternatively Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.
Eventually your Bite attack will be replaced by the class features anyway.
Natural Attacks are not really worth it unless you get all 5 up and running. (As secondary attacks they only ever add half STR)
I think it's great 0gre, go for it.
I can see this conversation now...
Sorceress Sara : "So, Oscar, where are you from?"
Orcling Oscar :
Bard Billy : "Uh, anyway, Sara, how's your mom and dad doing? I saw you got a letter the other day?"
Sorceress Sara : "Oh, yeah, Dad's business is doing great, and mom is making a dress for the duchess." "My Dad's a brewer, and my mom's a Seamstress."
Orcling Oscar : "Ma Da's a Halfling."
Bard Billy : "Oh, well, of course he is, your mother t..."
Orcling Oscar : "Leave me mum out of this..."
ROFL, made my morning.
Little orcs? This looks like orc mischief to me!
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I think it's great 0gre, go for it.
I can see this conversation now...
Sorceress Sara : "So, Oscar, where are you from?"
Orcling Oscar :
Bard Billy : "Uh, anyway, Sara, how's your mom and dad doing? I saw you got a letter the other day?"
Sorceress Sara : "Oh, yeah, Dad's business is doing great, and mom is making a dress for the duchess." "My Dad's a brewer, and my mom's a Seamstress."
Orcling Oscar : "Ma Da's a Halfling."
Bard Billy : "Oh, well, of course he is, your mother t..."
Orcling Oscar : "Leave me mum out of this..."
Hahaha. That's twice in two days your cheese related posts have made me chuckle :D
With big old chompers, your halfling would be able to eat even the most dangerous cheeses.
Dire cheese.
"I'm a muenster! RAWRR!"
I see no problem with it at all.
Would you consider it cheesy to have a halfling use the adopted trait to get the Half Orc "Tusked" Racial Trait?
Adopted
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a Racial Trait from your adoptive parents’ race.Tusked
Huge, sharp tusks bulge from your mouth, and you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5.
I'm pretty sure it's technically legal (though let me know if you can think of some reason it isn't), I'm just wondering if people think it's too ridiculous for their table. Those of you who have a cheese-o-meter where does this rate?
I've decided the un-official cheese rating system should have too parts:
Gorgonzola - (Reeks of Power Gaming)
Swiss - (Filled with Rules holes)
Eye-roller - (Nothing specific, just WTF?!)
I considered the same thing. It is within the rules and it is an interesting, fun idea. I would allow it, I would do it, and I would enjoy it.
EDIT: Reading through the thread, I guess it's not technically within the rules. I'd still allow it though 'cause it's fun and not unbalancing.
What is so wrong with a Half-Orc-Half-Halfling anyways, besides coherently pronouncing it?You mean besides some pretty unfortunate implications about this characters origins?A very drunk halfling, a stepladder, and an orc woman who lost a bet?
I don't see the alternate as being possible for a variety of reasons.
Rule 34!
