Here's the statement I'm referring to.
Can you Take 10 on the Intelligence check in the contact other plane spell?
Having your Int and Cha blasted down to 8 by an extraplanar entity is a significant and distracting threat, therefore you can't Take 10 on that check.—Sean K Reynolds, 03/04/11
I give Sean's answer ("you can't Take 10") a B-plus, but I give his logic a D-minus.
The problem is that, if you can't take 10 on an action when the only danger is from performing that action itself (i.e, there's no other dangers or distractions around), then taking 10 is useless for most skills.
Take 10 to climb a rope? Sorry, you might fall down.
Take 10 to pick a lock? Sorry, the lock might be trapped.
Take 10 to swim? Sorry, you might drown.
Take 10 to jump over a 3' gap? Sorry, you might trip and fall.
Take 10 to make a disguise? Sorry, someone might see through the disguise and kill you.
Take 10 to bandage up your friend? Sorry, you might fail and let your friend bleed to death.
Etc.
A much better answer would be to say "you can't take 10 using Contact Other Plane because concentrating on the spell is too distracting".
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Ultimately, take-10 should be a DM judgment call. It should all be about the particular situation.
Side note: Disguise is a secret GM roll. Never a "take" roll of any kind. You won't know how good that beard adhesive works until you are walking around and it starts to peel off without you noticing (rolled a 1)
Makes perfect sense to me. You can only take a 10 when your character is in no immediate danger and not distracted.
The contact another plane spell clearly states that
Contact with minds far removed from your home plane increases the probability that you will incur a decrease in Intelligence and Charisma due to your brain being overwhelmed, but also increases the chance of the power knowing the answer and answering correctly.
The spell itself takes 10 minutes to prep and lasts as long as you are concentrating on it. During that time you are required to make an intelligence check. Making a check WHILE maintaining the spell is a distracting situation because of the spell description.
Having to concentrate to prevent your mind from being overwhelmed seems pretty clear cut as a significant distraction to me.
Edited for Clarity.
Side note: Disguise is a secret GM roll. Never a "take" roll of any kind.
[citation needed]
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[citation needed]
Side note: Disguise is a secret GM roll. Never a "take" roll of any kind.
From the PRD:
You get only one Disguise check per use of the skill, even if several people make Perception checks against it. The Disguise check is made secretly, so that you can't be sure how good the result is.
Also, the rogue talent "Trap Spotter", and the skills Disable Device and Linguistics (when forging) are also secret checks.
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Ultimately, take-10 should be a DM judgment call. It should all be about the particular situation.
Side note: Disguise is a secret GM roll. Never a "take" roll of any kind. You won't know how good that beard adhesive works until you are walking around and it starts to peel off without you noticing (rolled a 1)
Don't rely on fake beards at royal dinners.
The almond oil in the marzipan dissolves the glue. ;)
Here's the statement I'm referring to.
Can you Take 10 on the Intelligence check in the contact other plane spell?
Having your Int and Cha blasted down to 8 by an extraplanar entity is a significant and distracting threat, therefore you can't Take 10 on that check.—Sean K Reynolds, 03/04/11
I give Sean's answer ("you can't Take 10") a B-plus, but I give his logic a D-minus.
The problem is that, if you can't take 10 on an action when the only danger is from performing that action itself (i.e, there's no other dangers or distractions around), then taking 10 is useless for most skills.
Take 10 to climb a rope? Sorry, you might fall down.
Take 10 to pick a lock? Sorry, the lock might be trapped.
Take 10 to swim? Sorry, you might drown.
Take 10 to jump over a 3' gap? Sorry, you might trip and fall.
Take 10 to make a disguise? Sorry, someone might see through the disguise and kill you.
Take 10 to bandage up your friend? Sorry, you might fail and let your friend bleed to death.
Etc.A much better answer would be to say "you can't take 10 using Contact Other Plane because concentrating on the spell is too distracting".
Well, I think his wording might have been better but I take it more as that the loss of INT/CHA is an immediate danger.
"When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10."
As for your examples, I often have had GMs refuse take 10 on climbing a rope, because there is an immediate danger if you fail.
Take 10 on picking a lock, there really isn't a clear and present danger, that its trapped. Now, using disable device to disarm a trap does present an immediate danger.
Take 10 on swim, one failed roll doesn't mean you take damage. I even had a GM make the distinction that you could take 10 to swim across a lake, but if your head went underwater, you could no longer take 10, because now there was a danger.
A Disguise check is made in secret, so I might be disinclined as a GM to allow take 10. Again, is there really an immediate danger when you're putting on the make-up?
So your buddy doesn't live if you blow the heal check, that ain't no danger to you.
My rules of thumb is if failing a roll results in damage you can't take 10.
I do wish there was a little more guidance because about every one of the ones you mentioned I've seen ruled both ways by various GMs.
I think it's a stupid mechanic to take that much of a possible penalty for a divination spell at that level.
I would allow wizards to easily cast that spell using a take 10. Sorcerers can have more difficulty casting it -- so what.
SKR gave his opinion, but that's not how the take 10 rules work.
As for your examples, I often have had GMs refuse take 10 on climbing a rope, because there is an immediate danger if you fail.
Then your GM was also wrong.
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As written, its totally subjective and situational. It is best if it is just taken as that. Anything official would be purely opinion from their games, even if it is a developer. Unless the wording is actually changed and specific skills being given exact take 10 situations, then it's all up to the DM
It is all about context, because as soon as your loose it, then everything is fair game.
It's not a secret roll. You'd need 32 Int, a luckstone, and greater heroism to avoid failing on the highest roll. . . or some ridiculous combination such as that. And failure is pretty horrible.
If they're really not rushed and there's no immediate threat, I'd just let them take 10. It's a 5th level spell.
It's not a secret roll. You'd need 32 Int, a luckstone, and greater heroism to avoid failing on the highest roll. . . or some ridiculous combination such as that. And failure is pretty horrible.
If they're really not rushed and there's no immediate threat, I'd just let them take 10. It's a 5th level spell.
It is also a very overpowered 5th level if you take 10.
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Here's the statement I'm referring to.
Can you Take 10 on the Intelligence check in the contact other plane spell?
Having your Int and Cha blasted down to 8 by an extraplanar entity is a significant and distracting threat, therefore you can't Take 10 on that check.—Sean K Reynolds, 03/04/11
I give Sean's answer ("you can't Take 10") a B-plus, but I give his logic a D-minus.
Taking 10:
Taking 10 and Taking 20A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions, increasing the odds of success.
Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10.
Contact other planes spell:
Avoid Int/Cha Decrease: You must succeed on an Intelligence check against this DC to avoid a decrease in Intelligence and Charisma. If the check fails, your Intelligence and Charisma scores each fall to 8 for the stated duration, and you become unable to cast arcane spells. If you lose Intelligence and Charisma, the effect strikes as soon as the first question is asked, and no answer is received. If a successful contact is made, roll d% to determine the type of answer you gain.
You can't take 10 with Contact other planes simply because you do a intelligence check, not a skill check.
You aren't using a skill (trained or untrained), you are checking if your mind is strong enough to withstand the power of the mind you are contacting.
It is also a very overpowered 5th level if you take 10.
Compared to?
Commune? 1 question per level, 100% correct, several words can be used per answer if the deity wants, 500gp component, 5th level divine spell.
Contact other plane: 1 question per 2 caster levels, significant chance for don't know/lie/random answer (11% chance per question, at the highest check), one word answers only, no material component, 5th level arcane spell.
By no definition can I see "very overpowered" comparing those spells. . .
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Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to concentration checks or caster level checks.
This is right below what you quoted in the PRD
And I totally missed it. :(
I still think that is it stupid if you aren't doing a untrained skill check, but that is the RAW.
The rope you want to climb doesn't do anything. It's just a static object that applies to law of physics. You as a player when you take your time are in complete control.
However, if some extraplanar entity decides to pull/move to rope, you are no longer in control you can't take 10. It's similar as being attacked ihmo.
This! I think that's why you can't take 10. When you're climbing a rope, you have to climb the rope to avoid danger. As long as you can focus on that, you can take 10. If someone shoots at you, you have to both climb the rope and dodge - reducing your chance of succeeding. Someone is actively trying to harm you. That is also the case in contact other plane.