Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Beginner Box (OGL) Boxed Set


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Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Rusty Ironpants wrote:
Galnörag wrote:

Call me the curmudgeonly devil's advocate, but why is this in the subscription, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the subscription members are not the target demo for a beginner set, or do you have a lot of non-gamer subscribers?

I'm probably going to cancel my sub, not because this isn't a cool product, or isn't a great moment for paizo, but... well I really don't need it (not withstanding the cool art.)

I couldn't agree more. Being a charter subscriber, I own pretty much every sourcebook and rulebook printed for Pathfinder. I do NOT need a beginner box set.

So does that make me an angel's advocate? Because I'm extremely pleased that it's in the subscription, and will probably be ordering an extra game or two as gifts.

My only disappointment at all (and it's nothing to do with the Beginner Box) is that even though they're offering PDFs of the GameMastery map line, those are *not* part of the subscriber package!


Is there any chance that we could get a larger preview image? :)


Assuming that this beginner box takes you at least to level 4, I hope it will include detailed rules for ability score increases, as those were missing from the Core Rulebook, which caused quite a bit of confusion in my group (in 4E ability score increases work differently).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Oren wrote:
Assuming that this beginner box takes you at least to level 4, I hope it will include detailed rules for ability score increases, as those were missing from the Core Rulebook, which caused quite a bit of confusion in my group (in 4E ability score increases work differently).
Pathfinder Core Rulebook wrote:


Advancing Your Character
A character advances in level as soon as he earns enough
experience points to do so—typically, this occurs at the
end of a game session, when your GM hands out that
session’s experience point awards.
The process of advancing a character works in much the
same way as generating a character, except that your ability
scores, race, and previous choices concerning class, skills,
and feats cannot be changed. Adding a level generally gives
you new abilities, additional skill points to spend, more hit
points, and possibly an ability score increase or additional
feat (see Table 3–1). Over time, as your character rises to higher
levels, he becomes a truly powerful force in the game world,
capable of ruling nations or bringing them to their knees.
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding
levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure
to take the following steps in order. First, select your new
class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before
any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply
any ability score increases due to gaining a level
. Third,
integrate all of the level’s class abilities and then roll for
additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats.
For more information on when you gain new feats and
ability score increases, see Table 3–1.

More detailed than that? I mean, it spells out that you get them, tells you what order to apply them in, and references the chart which tells you what level to apply them at.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Reckless wrote:
More detailed than that? I mean, it spells out that you get them, tells you what order to apply them in, and references the chart which tells you what level to apply them at.

Sadly it only implies that an ability score increase is only +1. Us vets understand that but newcomers have been confused by that passage before.

I for one am glad that I'm getting the Beginner's Box. If you don't want it, drop the subscription after UC and re-add after BB is released. Its not like the subs are pre-paid like a magazine subscription.


Just out of curiousity, will the Beginner Box be shrink-wrapped?

Contributor

Oren wrote:
Assuming that this beginner box takes you at least to level 4, I hope it will include detailed rules for ability score increases, as those were missing from the Core Rulebook, which caused quite a bit of confusion in my group (in 4E ability score increases work differently).

Rest assured.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Twin Dragons wrote:

Just out of curiousity, will the Beginner Box be shrink-wrapped?

Yes.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Twin Dragons wrote:

Just out of curiousity, will the Beginner Box be shrink-wrapped?

Yes.

Thanks Vic.


deinol wrote:
Reckless wrote:
More detailed than that? I mean, it spells out that you get them, tells you what order to apply them in, and references the chart which tells you what level to apply them at.
Sadly it only implies that an ability score increase is only +1. Us vets understand that but newcomers have been confused by that passage before.

Just to be clear, that IS a +1 to ANY Ability score on level 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20, right? (so a total of 5 ability points total)

I am one of those that had not played 3.5 before Pathfinder (which I just call Pathfinder anyway).

Contributor

Dustin J Cooper wrote:
Just to be clear, that IS a +1 to ANY Ability score on level 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20, right? (so a total of 5 ability points total)

Correct!


Is there a manufacturer suggested age for this Beginner Box?

I have two girls that are 8 and 11 years old and I was wondering if the 8 year old could play?

Dark Archive

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Paris Crenshaw wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Minis are not pawns, pawns are not minis.
I'll be adding this to my list for an as-yet-to-be-published book entitled, "The Quotable SKR."
I guess libraries would buy a copy.
Are you sure?
Well, certain libraries in the world attempt to buy one of everything, just for research's sake.

You say it with a hint of sarcasm (and I suspect you're referring to the Library of Congress here), although preserving the cultural heritage is one of the primary functions and goals of libraries -- along with other memory institutions -- worldwide. That includes also a certain amount of esoteric, exotic, dubious and even outright bad works. ;)

But perhaps you're right this time; "The Quotable SKR" is just not worth it; however, my own upcoming "Sayings of the Bald Guy" will be vastly superior in quality to this amateurish chapbook! And naturally my masterpiece will naturally be followed by a sequel (of sorts) called "Incoherent Ramblings of an Old Treant". ;P


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Sannos wrote:

Is there a manufacturer suggested age for this Beginner Box?

I have two girls that are 8 and 11 years old and I was wondering if the 8 year old could play?

I'd be really interested to hear the 'official' answer to this. I've heard of people under ten playing RPGs and enjoying themselves, although my thought would be that it wouldn't really be suitable for under tens - no doubt that's primarily a function of my own biases/experience.

I could imagine running a below-ten game, but the implicit assumption of the genre is that there's an awful lot of 'solving problems with violence' - something I'd like my kids to have some context about first. (All highly subjective, personal opinion, of course).

Dark Archive

Steve Geddes wrote:
Sannos wrote:

Is there a manufacturer suggested age for this Beginner Box?

I have two girls that are 8 and 11 years old and I was wondering if the 8 year old could play?

I'd be really interested to hear the 'official' answer to this. I've heard of people under ten playing RPGs and enjoying themselves, although my thought would be that it wouldn't really be suitable for under tens - no doubt that's primarily a function of my own biases/experience.

I could imagine running a below-ten game, but the implicit assumption of the genre is that there's an awful lot of 'solving problems with violence' - something I'd like my kids to have some context about first. (All highly subjective, personal opinion, of course).

Well, my nephew is 7 years old, and I intend to buy this as a christmas present for him (and another copy for myself, naturally! ;)). I've talked about what roleplaying games are with him, and what kind of genres and games exist, and he seems genuinely interested in trying RPGs. I'm not so sure if "solving problems with violence" is the implicit assumption in the fantasy genre, either in fiction or RPGs; in D&D it may always have been the easiest choice, or at least since 3E (i.e. you get more XP for killing things). I know I'm going to run "combat-light" sessions for my nephew, and encourage him to try non-violent approach to problem solving and to think outside the box.

However, if you're not sure if Pathfinder is the way to go, there are other RPGs explicitly written for kids, such as "Faery's Tale" and "Princes' Kingdom", for example. A slightly-tweaked "Mouse Guard" would probably work really well, too.


Steve Geddes wrote:
Sannos wrote:

Is there a manufacturer suggested age for this Beginner Box?

I have two girls that are 8 and 11 years old and I was wondering if the 8 year old could play?

I'd be really interested to hear the 'official' answer to this. I've heard of people under ten playing RPGs and enjoying themselves, although my thought would be that it wouldn't really be suitable for under tens - no doubt that's primarily a function of my own biases/experience.

I could imagine running a below-ten game, but the implicit assumption of the genre is that there's an awful lot of 'solving problems with violence' - something I'd like my kids to have some context about first. (All highly subjective, personal opinion, of course).

I have loved RPGs since the tender age of six. Swords are awesome and if you're able to cope with the implicit level of violence, I can assure you that the game will flower in the fertile imagination of a young'n.

Just don't expect them to actually learn the rules. And remember that the game is about killing stuff with swords. Watch some Adventure Time for guidance navigating violent themes and young children. That show rocks.

Shadow Lodge

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

Contributor

4 people marked this as a favorite.
0gre wrote:

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

That's pretty much it.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
0gre wrote:

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

That's pretty much it.

I was expecting the box to have the typical RPG boxed set listed age of 12+... but that like all boxed set RPGs it would be perfectly reasonable to be used by any young child that enjoys reading/has the vocabulary needed to understand the rules.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Dustin J Cooper wrote:
Just to be clear, that IS a +1 to ANY Ability score on level 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20, right? (so a total of 5 ability points total)
Correct!

Thanks Sean! I figured that, but just needed to be sure.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
thenobledrake wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
0gre wrote:

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

That's pretty much it.

I was expecting the box to have the typical RPG boxed set listed age of 12+... but that like all boxed set RPGs it would be perfectly reasonable to be used by any young child that enjoys reading/has the vocabulary needed to understand the rules.

I am pretty sure it will have the standard 12+ listed age, however Ogre did say with some help.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Steve Geddes wrote:
Sannos wrote:

Is there a manufacturer suggested age for this Beginner Box?

I have two girls that are 8 and 11 years old and I was wondering if the 8 year old could play?

I'd be really interested to hear the 'official' answer to this. I've heard of people under ten playing RPGs and enjoying themselves, although my thought would be that it wouldn't really be suitable for under tens - no doubt that's primarily a function of my own biases/experience.

I could imagine running a below-ten game, but the implicit assumption of the genre is that there's an awful lot of 'solving problems with violence' - something I'd like my kids to have some context about first. (All highly subjective, personal opinion, of course).

One of the players in my campaign was 7 when we started, and is now 12. He can have trouble with focus, but when he's on, he's on.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

thenobledrake wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
0gre wrote:

I'm hoping it will be useful to 7-10 year olds with some help but also reasonable for adults interested in getting started with the game.

That's pretty much it.

I was expecting the box to have the typical RPG boxed set listed age of 12+... but that like all boxed set RPGs it would be perfectly reasonable to be used by any young child that enjoys reading/has the vocabulary needed to understand the rules.

The box says "13+", with the main reason being that producing a product with a target age below that would require us to deal with a host of regulations and complications (especially in international distribution) that we'd really rather avoid.

It also bears a notice that it's not suitable for children under 3 years because it contains small parts.

As far as using your own judgement for the maturity of your players goes, I'll just note that it's very much still the Pathfinder RPG, and therefore frequently involves killing monsters and taking their stuff, as well as almost all of the other fantasy RPG themes you're familiar with. One theme that we did adjust is that it only covers good and neutral alignments for players. (Monsters and NPC villains will of course frequently be evil.)


I know it's probably way early to try and vote for "more sets of pawns" but I'd like to go ahead and vote for more sets of pawns. As a newbie but enthusiastic Pathfinder GM I think these stand-up pawns would strike an ideal balance between plastic or metal minis, which are awesome but seriously expensive, and something like flat pog-type tokens, which have none of the visibility/presence of "real" minis on the tabletop.

As such, if sets of pawns for lots of monsters were available, I for one would probably collect them and use them, just sayin'. I love the pre-painted plastic minis as well, I hope it's not a matter of only one or the other being produced...I'd love to see more sets of plastics for PCs and use pawns for monsters but that is just me trying to find a happy medium that I could personally afford.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

These pawn stands might be super easy to use with the pathfinder paper minis lines that are available.

How thick is the card stock the pawns are printed on?


I'm probably on the opposite side of the spectrum here from most people... but as a subscriber I don't feel a need to have this particular product and was wondering if there is a way to opt out of it? I'm sure it will be fantastic, I just don't need it at this point in time. Any assistance in this matter would be helpful :)


As a subscriber, you always have the choice of cancelling your subscription and then resubscribing once an unwanted product has shipped. It's my understanding that the fine folks at Paizo are perfectly fine with this method of avoiding products you don't want.

Dark Archive

Heine Stick wrote:
As a subscriber, you always have the choice of cancelling your subscription and then resubscribing once an unwanted product has shipped. It's my understanding that the fine folks at Paizo are perfectly fine with this method of avoiding products you don't want.

Are you not also able to put a subscription on hold for a month or 2 ?

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

You can put a subscription on hold. But note that a suspended subscription still accrues all the products in the subscription while it's suspended, and when you unsuspend your subscription those products will all ship together by default. (You can contact customer service to have them split it into multiple orders if you need that, but you'll still get all the products that shipped during the suspension.)

Liberty's Edge

bigkilla wrote:
Heine Stick wrote:
As a subscriber, you always have the choice of cancelling your subscription and then resubscribing once an unwanted product has shipped. It's my understanding that the fine folks at Paizo are perfectly fine with this method of avoiding products you don't want.
Are you not also able to put a subscription on hold for a month or 2 ?

You are able to put a hold on it. Your still responsible to purchase the products that are released during that time. Plus they don't like it to go on hold for more than a month.

A canceling lets you skip products.

Edit: beat to the punch...


That seems like a lot of hassle, but I'll do it if I need to.... A check box sounds nicer "Click here if you wish to skip this installment of your subscription. You may always purchase this item separately at a later date, but will not receive the free PDF along with it as you do for a subscription purchase." My vote is for a quick update to the site with that option :)


Well, I think the point of a subscription is that you guarantee a company you'll be giving it regular business and they, in exchange, give you some kind of benefit (reduced pricing, free PDFs, or whatever). Paizo's subscriptions are a little different than any other in which I've participated but I think the concept holds.

Maybe, however, not everything belongs in a subscription. While this product *is* an RPG rules product I don't really think it belongs in the RPG subscription. It's pretty clearly a case of "one of these things is not like the other": if you've been getting everything else in the subscription then you aren't likely to "need" the basic box.

I'd rather have it a separate product and not part of the RPG sub. That said, I won't cancel my sub and restart because I believe in the stuff I said in the first paragraph above and I like and want to support Paizo. To a point anyway...if incongruous stuff keeps appearing I'll cancel my sub and just get the items I want individually.
M


Joana wrote:
Is that a new or pre-existing Flip-Mat? If new, will it be available apart from the box?
Vic Wertz wrote:
One side of it is the same as one side of Flip-Mat: Haunted Dungeon (and depicts the location used for the introductory adventure); the other side is a blank grid taken from Flip-Mat: Basic, so new GMs can make their own maps for further adventures.

So I have to also buy the Haunted Dungeon to get both maps. I am OK with this, but some might complain. It probably makes sense for a 'beginner' to give flexibility. But someone will say you should have made the map different for the Haunted Dungeon. That way we can make the Haunted Dungeon levels 2 and 3, and the Beginner Box level 1.

For my part, I intend to get both and then cut up the Beginner Box map as 'geomorphs' for the other dungeon flip-maps. I have done this on purpose before for things like the city flip-map. It almost looks like the Haunted Dungeon map is meant to be used with 'geomorphs' since it is more 'modular'. This sounds like a map pack idea like the new sets that have the building interiors for the shops/crypts.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Beorn the Bear wrote:
That seems like a lot of hassle, but I'll do it if I need to.... A check box sounds nicer "Click here if you wish to skip this installment of your subscription. You may always purchase this item separately at a later date, but will not receive the free PDF along with it as you do for a subscription purchase." My vote is for a quick update to the site with that option :)

Kind of invites people to 'subscribe' for one issue every time they want a product, then lie dormant for a few months before 'subscribing' again when something else came up. They'd end up giving the perks to everyone rather than just the regular customers if it was too easy (I already think it's remarkably generous).

Having said that - perhaps this specific case deserves a check box approach. The people who dont want it in the subscription do have a point that it's not quite the thing they thought they were signing up for.

Contributor

Duncan & Dragons wrote:
But someone will say you should have made the map different for the Haunted Dungeon. That way we can make the Haunted Dungeon levels 2 and 3, and the Beginner Box level 1.

But then people who pick up F-M: HD would have to buy the Beginner Box to get level 1.


Duncan & Dragons wrote:
But someone will say you should have made the map different for the Haunted Dungeon. That way we can make the Haunted Dungeon levels 2 and 3, and the Beginner Box level 1.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
But then people who pick up F-M: HD would have to buy the Beginner Box to get level 1.

Bah, Humbug.

The flip-maps and map packs that compliment each other are still great stand-alone products. So this could be. The maps could stand alone or be used in combination.

It does not matter, we already know it is going to be terrific.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Duncan & Dragons wrote:
But someone will say you should have made the map different for the Haunted Dungeon. That way we can make the Haunted Dungeon levels 2 and 3, and the Beginner Box level 1.
But then people who pick up F-M: HD would have to buy the Beginner Box to get level 1.

To be completely frank here, one of our goals for this product is to get as low a price point as we reasonably can while still including all of the tools that a beginner needs. And one of the tools we have for keeping the price point low is keeping the art budget low, and that means reusing artwork—including maps—as much as possible. (Keep in mind that *all* of this art is new to true beginners!)


Vic Wertz wrote:
To be completely frank here, one of our goals for this product is to get as low a price point as we reasonably can while still including all of the tools that a beginner needs. And one of the tools we have for keeping the price point low is keeping the art budget low, and that means reusing artwork—including maps—as much as possible. (Keep in mind that *all* of this art is new to true beginners!)

Blank flip mat for a beginner who gets the GMing bug is a good thing. Good call.


bahahaha - and just yesterday I was going through maps and wondering whether I should get the Haunted map or one of the other options; turns out that the decision making process just got a little bit easier :)

Grand Lodge

AWWW YEAH! Probably going to get this in time for my birthday!

But depending on how detailed the Hero Book is, it would be nice to retire the Core book unless need be, my first copy's binding just kinda deteriorated from all the use, especially around level up time.


I agree with all those who deny this product being of any use to veteran players (ie. the kind of players who have subscriptions). The books that have been part of the core Pathfinder subscription have been reinvigorating and a source of joy to those who have been playing over 20 years. This just seems to be more of a gimmick and rather poor as a business model. It's taking advantage of those who already enjoy the product you produce. For those who enjoy the idea you'd be perfectly in your right to buy the product, but it has no use to any vetted players.

Contributor

I'm a veteran player. I'm buying three. I know I'll put them to good use.

Grand Lodge

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I'm a veteran player. I'm buying three. I know I'll put them to good use.

Yup. I'll be buying a few as well. Including one for me. You never know what you will find useful in a product like this - while it will be close to the core rules, it may make certain mechanics clearer, or have a change which may work as a houserule.

And of course, there may some copies going out to the next generation of Clan Shackleton.

And, while I understand the concerns about international shipping, it really should be part of the Rules Subscription. It's a rules product. While it may be a small inconvenience for those who do not want it to un-subscribe/re-subscribe, it doesn't hurt anyone to have it available for those who want it.


Yep. Class of 1981, here, and I'm getting one for myself right off, and planning to pick one up for my nephews later.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Veteran player myself. What I see it being REALLY good for? Starting the next generation of future veteran players.


I have to jump in and agree with those who say this doesn't belong in the subscription. It looks nice, I'm sure it'll be useful to some people, and it may be really good for introducing new gamers to the hobby. There's also no new content (not even artwork) and nothing that necessitates anyone having it early. The free PDF is awfully nice, but Paizo could offer that to those who pre-order the box set if they also happen to be subscribers...the sort of opt-in that other commenters have described.

I'm a new subscriber because UC was something I just "had to have" early. Without a way to opt-out of this product, I'm going to have to cancel my subscription after just one item and then decide again if the early releases + free PDFs of ARG and Bestiary 3 are valuable enough for me to want to re-subscribe. They may be, I'm awfully excited about those books! But on the other hand, I don't want to be constantly subscribing and unsubscribing, especially since I have to go through customer service every time I want to unsubscribe (something else I'd think could be easily automated). Basically, I'm just not sure the subscriber service is user-friendly enough to make it worth the perks, and this instance is especially telling since it's $40+ worth of stuff I already have.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

There is actually new content. The adventures and adventure hooks are new, as are a couple of little crunchy bits. (Nothing earth-shattering, and certainly not themselves reason enough for anyone to buy the box, which is why we don't play up that fact, but they are technically new.)

Contributor

Vic Wertz wrote:
There is actually new content. The adventures and adventure hooks are new, as are a couple of little crunchy bits. (Nothing earth-shattering, and certainly not themselves reason enough for anyone to buy the box, which is why we don't play up that fact, but they are technically new.)

The pawns are new, too.


Not a subscriber (yet), I'm just buying everything ala carte right now. Not sure when/if I would be starting a subscription, but it would be after the release of this item--owning the Core book, APG, some APs, lots of dice from past gaming and other paraphernalia required, I don't need a box telling me the basic rules of the game, even if there is some new content.

I think the box itself is an excellent idea. I still have my original D&D "Red Box" from way back in the day, so I can understand the excitement over this item. For those who plan on giving it as a gift, that's even better, but certainly the concept of something that can be given to friends as an introduction shouldn't be a part of an individual's ongoing subscription, the basis of which should be things they are buying for themselves. Just my two cents (in case anyone from Paizo is keeping track of these things.)

Shadow Lodge

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
There is actually new content. The adventures and adventure hooks are new, as are a couple of little crunchy bits. (Nothing earth-shattering, and certainly not themselves reason enough for anyone to buy the box, which is why we don't play up that fact, but they are technically new.)
The pawns are new, too.

Not that anyone asked me, but I wonder if you couldn't have put in twice as many tokens, rather than upright-standing pawns?

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