The Faults of Hero Lab


Technology

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
4) Character sheets are not yet customizable and you are limited to 3 lines of explanation for feats and abilities. .

You can get past that by printing the "Abilities and Gear" Dossier.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The 8th Dwarf wrote:

You can out put in Plain Text, HTML, BB Code and Wiki Text.

You can also ouput in HTML, and there are several free third party output modules for doing so.

Scarab Sages

Nevermind.

Did not notice the thread was necro'd.


Moar Necro!

I'd suggest making sure the player with herolab actually knows what they are doing. My group has one who always shows up with Chaotic aligned oracles casting lawful spells, 11th level characters with 9 levels in a prestige class that requires 7 levels before you can enter it, and other wacky things. She still hasn't figured out how to make the program enforce actual game rules yet. Thankfully I haven't run Pathfinder on this night, because I'd demand a printed copy from her to look over, and I know that would go over like a lead balloon.


Umm...Chaotic Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells, and Good ones can cast Evil spells. GMs can houserule that it will eventually affect your alignment, but RAW there's nothing stopping you.


Grey Lensman wrote:

Moar Necro!

I'd suggest making sure the player with herolab actually knows what they are doing. My group has one who always shows up with Chaotic aligned oracles casting lawful spells, 11th level characters with 9 levels in a prestige class that requires 7 levels before you can enter it, and other wacky things. She still hasn't figured out how to make the program enforce actual game rules yet. Thankfully I haven't run Pathfinder on this night, because I'd demand a printed copy from her to look over, and I know that would go over like a lead balloon.

It doesn't enforce the rules as much as it provides validation warnings. I think this is actually a good thing since it makes it easier to build higher level characters without having to go through level advancements one by one. But as long as she's watching the validation warnings, the most egregious rules violations should be under control.

Dark Archive

Ummm is it on android systems yet??? I dislike apple and do not own their products.

Scarab Sages

Bill Dunn wrote:
It doesn't enforce the rules as much as it provides validation warnings. I think this is actually a good thing since it makes it easier to build higher level characters without having to go through level advancements one by one. But as long as she's watching the validation warnings, the most egregious rules violations should be under control.

Be careful doing this. If you advance your levels before making feat selections Hero Labs will not validate feats being legal at the level they are selected.

You could, for example, build a 2nd level oracle with power attack and have no validation errors.


HeroLab is good tech.

But you still have to double-check the work.

I find that making one there and then going back to double check their math is an *excellent* way to make 100% sure you understand 100% of the character.

As someone who's spent an hour trying to figure out how it arrived at a particular Skill value.. twice (HL was correct both times), I can say its useful for making sure You know how it got there.

That being said- it has been Incorrect before. And its useful to know that, too.

-S


Just started using Hero Lab myself. Overall it seems like a pretty robust program and seems to provide most of what I want. The interface does seem a little old and clunky. Main things I'd like to see are:

1. The one-button instant party - let me pick a party level and number of party members and have it fully generate the PCs (or NPCs).

2. A die roller that lets me push a button to fill the die values into the ability scores. Unless I am doing something wrong, I can get it to give me a set of 6 scores in the pop up but then I see no way to apply those scores to the abilities. You just have to manually raise and lower the scores.

3. A character visualizer tool that lets me describe my PC in terms of race, gender, height, weight, etc. and then have it render a drawing. It would include adding equipment.

L

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wu Nakitu wrote:
Umm...Chaotic Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells, and Good ones can cast Evil spells. GMs can houserule that it will eventually affect your alignment, but RAW there's nothing stopping you.

Divine casters of any stripe can not cast againt their alignment.


LazarX wrote:
Wu Nakitu wrote:
Umm...Chaotic Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells, and Good ones can cast Evil spells. GMs can houserule that it will eventually affect your alignment, but RAW there's nothing stopping you.
Divine casters of any stripe can not cast againt their alignment.

Can I get that in writing? Inquisitors, Clerics and Druids have a specific paragraph specifying that. Oracles don't.

Grand Lodge

Grey Lensman wrote:

Moar Necro!

I'd suggest making sure the player with herolab actually knows what they are doing. My group has one who always shows up with Chaotic aligned oracles casting lawful spells, 11th level characters with 9 levels in a prestige class that requires 7 levels before you can enter it, and other wacky things. She still hasn't figured out how to make the program enforce actual game rules yet. Thankfully I haven't run Pathfinder on this night, because I'd demand a printed copy from her to look over, and I know that would go over like a lead balloon.

You do realize what you are talking about is house rules. Of course Hero Lab does not handle that unless you as a user input them. Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells and I am not sure which prestige class you are speaking of.. but I am pretty sure Hero Lab would not mess it up THAT bad where the pre-reqs for said prestige class are not before hand.

Unless she is setting the settings to ignore them somehow it would not happen. Hero Lab DOES enforce the rules as written IN the book. If you want House rules it is up to you as a user to input them then. So it is by no means a fault of Hero Lab.

Grand Lodge

Bill Dunn wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:

Moar Necro!

I'd suggest making sure the player with herolab actually knows what they are doing. My group has one who always shows up with Chaotic aligned oracles casting lawful spells, 11th level characters with 9 levels in a prestige class that requires 7 levels before you can enter it, and other wacky things. She still hasn't figured out how to make the program enforce actual game rules yet. Thankfully I haven't run Pathfinder on this night, because I'd demand a printed copy from her to look over, and I know that would go over like a lead balloon.

It doesn't enforce the rules as much as it provides validation warnings. I think this is actually a good thing since it makes it easier to build higher level characters without having to go through level advancements one by one. But as long as she's watching the validation warnings, the most egregious rules violations should be under control.

THIS.. very much this.


Deanoth wrote:

You do realize what you are talking about is house rules. Of course Hero Lab does not handle that unless you as a user input them. Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells and I am not sure which prestige class you are speaking of.. but I am pretty sure Hero Lab would not mess it up THAT bad where the pre-reqs for said prestige class are not before hand.

Unless she is setting the settings to ignore them somehow it would not happen. Hero Lab DOES enforce the rules as written IN the book. If you want House rules it is up to you as a user to input them then. So it is by no means a fault of Hero Lab.

I think more than house rules was just everyone mentally carrying over the cleric restrictions without realizing it. In the end more of the players were questioning why anyone would think Unholy Smite is a good spell to pick for an adventure path anyways, since most of the enemies are evil and several party members tend to be good. That has been the standard in every AP we played except for the heavily modified Kingmaker game, where the enemies still were just other evil things far more often than not.

The prestige class in question was an arcane archer out of the core rules, with the character actually being made as ranger1/wizard1/arcane archer X. I'm pretty sure you can't get a base attack of 6 and a level of arcane spellcasting before level 7 without dipping into old 3.5 books or digging through 3rd party supplements (and certainly not the 3rd party stuff my group has copies of). And you certainly can't do these things at level 2.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wu Nakitu wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Wu Nakitu wrote:
Umm...Chaotic Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells, and Good ones can cast Evil spells. GMs can houserule that it will eventually affect your alignment, but RAW there's nothing stopping you.
Divine casters of any stripe can not cast againt their alignment.
Can I get that in writing? Inquisitors, Clerics and Druids have a specific paragraph specifying that. Oracles don't.

Oracles cast as clerics do, they cast the same spells as clerics do, so yes, the clerical restriction covers them.

Grand Lodge

LazarX wrote:
Wu Nakitu wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Wu Nakitu wrote:
Umm...Chaotic Oracles CAN cast Lawful spells, and Good ones can cast Evil spells. GMs can houserule that it will eventually affect your alignment, but RAW there's nothing stopping you.
Divine casters of any stripe can not cast againt their alignment.
Can I get that in writing? Inquisitors, Clerics and Druids have a specific paragraph specifying that. Oracles don't.
Oracles cast as clerics do, they cast the same spells as clerics do, so yes, the clerical restriction covers them.

I would LOVE to see this in writing too.. with a link to the PFSRD if possible. I have never seen where a divine caster can't cast any spell outside of their alignment nor have I see any official word from Sean, Vic, Eric or any other Paizo employee agreeing that Divine casters are not allowed to cast outside of their alignment.

Just saying that they can't makes it a house rule. But as RAW (Rules as written) in an official rule book or a Paizo employee saying otherwise, it is a house rule of yours.

Do I think that clerics or other divine casters should not be allowed to cast spells outside of their alignment, sure.. but I know I am in the minority in that belief. But It would be a HUGE detriment to the class or classes to limit them in such a way too.

So please... show us with a link or official ruling like a page number IN a book and quote it here? Until then enjoy your house rule as it is.

(BTW I am not trying to sound snarky or harsh. Just want some sort of official ruling on this because if this is the case I will GM things differently in Pathfinder Society and my own home game too)

Grand Lodge

Hero Lab is powerful software. The current version compared to what it was 2 years ago, while the same graphic user interface is much more correct and showing it's users how the numbers are done in depth. With spell definitions being fully implemented and users reporting any errors and priority being given to such fixes if problems do occur. If one remembers that humans designed this program and it is only as good as it's users and designers. Just like the books are only as good as it's authors and editors as well as any play-testers.

The Hero Lab software more than often catches more mistakes now that someone would make creating a character on paper then the software would make. If it does make a mistake it is usually in the descriptions of a power or something and that gets reported fairly fast. Sometimes numbers are computed wrong too... but again it is corrected fairly fast and as long as you keep abreast of the forums for Hero Lab on the Lone Wolf web site you should know what the problems are then and can make adjustments fairly easily.


While looking for something else, I came across this thread and see people still check up on it. A 'house rule' for the Bellingham Pathfinder Society Lodge was a free reroll for using Hero Lab or having your sheets printed out using Hero Lab. It is very happy having the print-out material reference the sourcebook. I do wish there was a way to toggle a 'favorites' bar of games so I would not have to see Alternity, M&M and all the other stuff I don't play. I also wish Hero Lab would have a way of doing inventory list by container, perhaps a separate specialized inventory page. Beyond a few minor features I wish Hero Lab possessed, it has been very helpful and effective for me.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vrischika111 wrote:


the main drawback is the price if you want PF + all extensions.
however, with the editor, you can create your own feats/class/... so you don't need to pay for the add-ons if you are willing to do them yourself.

Keep in mind that it is not a trivial piece of work. I'm working on an expansion for the Legends of the Shining Jewel campaign, so you have to factor how much your own time is worth. Also keep in mind that you can limit your purchases to what you need.


No "point buy" ability scores in Hero Lab as far as I can find. This seems like a pretty basic functionality that would be useful to many people. Makes me not want to purchase this product.

Silver Crusade Lone Wolf Development

Cohlrox wrote:
No "point buy" ability scores in Hero Lab as far as I can find. This seems like a pretty basic functionality that would be useful to many people. Makes me not want to purchase this product.

When you're first starting a new character, on the screen where you're choosing the books to use and the level to start at, one of the options is labeled "Pick/Roll Ability Scores" - click on that, and change it to "Point Buy: Standard Fantasy, 25", or one of the other point buy options.

If you want to modify an existing character, you can re-open that form by choosing Configure Hero from the Character menu.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Thread Resurrection!

I've been using HeroLab for a year or so. I like it cause it is great for being able to sit down and crank out a character without a clear concept in mind. Just start plugging in things, changing things, see what changes. All nice and fast cause the computer is handling all the math and cross-referencing the needed materials.

I have not used it in a DM capacity yet, although that was one reason that I purchased it for.

Now that I am playing Society games, it is a boon, so nice to have it filter out stuff that is not PFS legal!

It is also a pretty good quick reference during the game, mouse over a feat and a description pops up.

Only downside is the price. Buy a $40 book, maybe get the $10 PDF, and then the $5-$ HL data pack. I wish they would run sales occasionally. a BOGO or something would be nice.

And, there is a thrid party android app that lets you view HL characters, so that's nice. I am eagerly awaiting a proper Official android app though. Would be great to be able to leave my old heavy, slow laptop at home, and have my HeroLab and PDFs on my Nexus tablet, especially for the cons...

Scarab Sages

There are free alternatives, but you may not be able to apply conditions as quickly as herolab (like rage and post-rage). I only use a printed character sheet so the free option works great for me, even to the point of referencing source and page number to know if you own a resource before adding an option to a char or in case you have to look something up at the table (only matters for PFS).

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