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D&D 3e hailed the birth of the d20 system. With the OGL many other games spawned based on the core of the d20 system. Which one do you think is the best, overall. Obvious nothing is perfect, but which comes the closest to your 'idea' d20 game. Feel free to say 3e or 3.5e. or Pathfinder or d20 Modern, Stargate, etc, etc.
For me the best implementation of the d20 rules comes from fantasy rather than sci-fi and that is A Game of Thrones by Guardians of Order (now toes up unfortunately). I have many issues with the quasi-board game that D&D 3.5e took the d20 system in (and sadly PF followed) and it seemed to me that Guardians of Order managed to take all that was good about the d20 system and move it more towards a "game of the imagination' (if I may steal TSR's old idiom). From rules to the book itself Guardians of Order managed to just get it right for my style of game play. Now I haven't read/watched any of the books/series for George R R Martin so I'm not having my opinions of the actual game colored by like/dis-like of the novels.
Look forward to seeing what d20 systems people think hit the right note with them.
S.
I haven't played any D20 games beyond WotC's 3.0/3.5 and now Paizo's Pathfinder, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
My favorite edition is 3.5, because it fixed almost everything that was wrong with 3.0, and continued the innovation found there, with a system that anyone could modify into whatever their vision was (especially in terms of monster creation and tweaking). Pathfinder has fixed most of the remaining things that needed fixing, and is the game I currently play, but I still consider 3.5 my favorite implementation of D20.
If WotC had continued supporting their own edition, I imagine I'd have played 3.5 for a very long time without ever looking at other options. I suppose I should be thanking them for not doing that though, since it has allowed me to try many of those other (non-D20) options, as well as finding the Paizo community :)
DragonStar.
Every day.
All ways.
With Pathfinder being favorite on a different track...
And FantasyCraft on yet another.
Every d20 game has things I really, really like combined with varying degrees of things I really, really hate. I also just don't have the time or energy to find that mythical perfect RPG anymore, so I'd rather hot rod the d20 chassis with the plethora of diverse published rules floating around out there. From that perspective, I actually kinda like the idea of not having a favorite implementation. Still, here's a few notables:
From the few times I've actually been able to run it, Pathfinder works really well. Too well, in fact. I don't feel like I can open up the hood and poke around without causing serious damage to other parts of the system. Vanilla Pathfinder does make for some nice Vanilla Pathfinder though.
Mutants and Masterminds feels a little the same way in that I have a thousand by-the-book options to tinker with it, but I don't feel like I can eyeball anything. It also makes me buy into a lot of options that make good sense but just aren't as fun for me, like wound rolls, or weird, almost contrary alternatives.
I really, really like a lot of what Fantasycraft has to offer with characters on both sides of the table and gm design mechanics, but I can barely make sense of it while flipping back and forth through the book just to look up the rules on a few core concepts.
I like how BESM d20 is slim and already broken enough that I don't have to worry about ruining it any more when I tinker with it. I'd kinda like to run Pathfinder on the BESM core without all the trait options.
Action! has a lot of cool things going on, but it's a skeleton of a system that's so alien to any other d20 game, that I don't think I could ever squeeze out much of any great substance that other games like M&M hasn't salvaged from it and combined with rules that aren't quite as charming. Action! is a real heartbreaker.
I'm starting to look at the True20 system. I haven't *played* it yet, but on paper it *looks* good.
I quite like Mutants & Masterminds 2e.
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I'm starting to look at the True20 system. I haven't *played* it yet, but on paper it *looks* good.
Worked really well for horror D&D. I used True20 for running the 3e version of Ravenloft with a group after I had used 3e for another group. Out of the 2 systems True20 was a far more enjoyable experience for both myself as DM and the players.
S.
HiJinx forever! All the weird stuff from Polyhedron was always really fun. I'm still running a Pulp Heroes campaign that's been through 3.0, Pathfinder, and most recently, d20 Modern (the least impressive of the three). Somehow the HiJinx campaign has always eluded me.
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I started with 3.5, and I have never really left it. I have a few of the other books, True20, Conan, Pathfinder of course. I played a few sessions of Warhammer FRP. And a few of 4E. I honestly don't see myself ever switching systems permanently due to d20's infinite flexibility. I'll take fluid inelegance over rigid focus any day.
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I started with 3.5, and I have never really left it. I have a few of the other books, True20, Conan, Pathfinder of course. I played a few sessions of Warhammer FRP. And a few of 4E. I honestly don't see myself ever switching systems permanently due to d20's infinite flexibility. I'll take fluid inelegance over rigid focus any day.
Well said and it didnt start one of those stupid edition wars. Im in agreement mate 110%.
I feel D20 Modern was the pinnacle of D20 design until Pathfinder came out. I liked the fact that the base classes described your character, rather than your character being defined by the base class. I also liked that you had to multi-class eventually, forcing players to break free from a niche character design. I liked the talent trees, creating greater design versatility. With the complete D20 Modern library, you could play your character in virtually any setting. (Including a virtual setting!) I liked the Wealth rules, although I do understand why people didn't take to it.
All in all, if Paizo were to update the D20 Modern ruleset, you wouldn't hear a complaint from me.
I'm of two minds on this one. I really love 0e/1e, a lot of nostalgia as I cut my teeth on those editions, but also I love the narrative license implicit in such a system. It made it very easy to tell a story and manage the game at the same time, without either infringing on the other. That being said, I equally love Pathfinder because in many ways it is the best of both worlds, striking a near perfect balance between detail and creative control. I'm GM'ing Pathfinder, but wouldn't be opposed to playing/GM'ing a retro 0e/1e occasionally if only for old times sake.
HiJinx forever! All the weird stuff from Polyhedron was always really fun. I'm still running a Pulp Heroes campaign that's been through 3.0, Pathfinder, and most recently, d20 Modern (the least impressive of the three). Somehow the HiJinx campaign has always eluded me.
I'd like to look at a HiJinx campaign using the Beginner Box level of rules.
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I'm partial to the Stargate SG-1 game, mostly because of the abundance of setting material. I've only run a few games, but they were fun one-offs, and because it is sci-fi it isn't too difficult to use D&D monsters as aliens. I recall using Straad zombies as Anubis super-soldiers to great effect. And port over the psionics/magic transparency to technology/magic.
In order:
Pathfinder interchangeable with FantasyCraft
D&D 3.5.
Mutants & Masterminds 2e (haven't looked at the 3e stuff or DC stuff yet).
My personal d20 favorites, in no particular order, are:
Star Wars Saga Edition - Mechanics that were streamlined beyond 3e/Pathfinder, but not so streamlined as to be 4e, while still allowing for a nearly infinite level of customization and having an absurd amount of source material to draw from makes me love this one and makes me likely to use it for most Sci-Fi needs.
Pathfinder - For those times when I want a heavy dose of really crunchy, complex rules within a fantasy framework. And good, extensive, pre-published campaigns. Don't forget the pre-published campaigns.
Mutants & Masterminds 2e - Best implementation of the super hero genre I've personally seen.
For me I quite like Arcana Evolved. Loved the spell casting classes. But ultimately 3.5 is still my fav. Glad to hear they're reprinting.
D&D 3.5*
PF is probably the next one after that.
E6, by a large margin. Too bad my group doesn't feel the same :(
