"Savage Species" Rulebook Conversion


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Thanks a ton!! I will have to look through this at some point when I have time. I am not much of a number cruncher, so I don't think I will be much use pointing out any probs, but if I see any, I will let you know.

Grand Lodge

Looking forward to the next release.

Contributor

Getting close, I added in a few from Bestiary 4 and did the Dark Folk as well. I have a few left to clean up, format and upload. I'm thinking Friday (if not sooner if I can)

=)

Thanks for everyone's help, support and patience.


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love the stuff zerzix =) they should pay you for your work and sell it as official pathfinder supplement.


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Zerzix, did you ever get my email?

Contributor

I did gecko! Looking through at this moment

Contributor

This is an early release...a couple of devils and demons were taken out due to some errors and need to be reworked. A few others were taken out as well, but a few races that are still included in Advanced Race guide are still there due to them being more "classic" monster races (goblin and such)

I'll be adding in a couple more dragons, demons, devils and hopefully have someone thoroughly proof edit that and maybe put out a final version. =)

Bestiary Levels v19


w00t!!! ^___^


V19 is already up, I see. ;p


Awww

Grand Lodge

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zerzix, you're using the 3.5 half-janni, not the Pathfinder Companion version. The site's missing "darkvision 60 ft, fire resist 10, & immune to disease".

Contributor

DOH! I did, didn't I! lol Thanks for the catch


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Incubus is referencing Succubus under weapon and armor proficiency.

Contributor

w0ot thanks Cubic!!!!!!!!!!!!! Getting feedback really helps light a fire under me.

Contributor

Hey Gecko,
I was going over the sola dragon...I went ahead and covert it. It'll be a bit different from your conversion you sent me in a few small ways. Namely one of my main goals when I convert monsters...especially dragons is that at any particular level you might select - if its featured in the bestiary then the conversion should reflect it as best as possible. So like the Solar Dragon in terms of size base at 5th level should be small...as seen in the book. =)


Thanks for the go over. I tried to follow B4 exactly, guess I made a mistake or two. I'll compare side by side when you release. Unless you want to email me back....

Contributor

Ive been messing with some stuff today. I might just post another update later tonight... lol (pfft some Friday night for me.)

Contributor

Happy Sat! Here is version 20. lol on a roll... lemme know if anyone see's any errors. =)

Bestiary Levels v20


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why hello half-golem, it's nice to see you.


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love it Zerzix! i seriously applaud your commitment to this project! ^___^

Contributor

Again, if anyone ever plays something from this, please I'd love feedback...too strong, too weak, errors, things to add...anything =)


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A thought occurs to me, zerzix: this document includes the ‘normal’ wemic, of Forgotten Realms fame, but have you ever considered converting the ‘mountain wemic’ from Monsters of Faerûn (and discussed in Races of Faerûn)? It’s a Medium creature with only three racial Hit Dice, as opposed to the Large/5HD ‘normal’ breed — which might make the ‘mountain wemic’ racial class a little more forgiving on the character’s later advancement prospects.

Contributor

Trace Coburn wrote:
A thought occurs to me, zerzix: this document includes the ‘normal’ wemic, of Forgotten Realms fame, but have you ever considered converting the ‘mountain wemic’ from Monsters of Faerûn (and discussed in Races of Faerûn)? It’s a Medium creature with only three racial Hit Dice, as opposed to the Large/5HD ‘normal’ breed — which might make the ‘mountain wemic’ racial class a little more forgiving on the character’s later advancement prospects.

Hey Trace, Thanks for the input! I had actually looked over the medium wemic and at the time I thought the large base seemed more "realistic" if someone was really part Lion as it also is large based. The wemic was one of my first conversions and now looking back I might change it a bit. So that at first to forth level you are medium and become large at 5th. That way if you didn't want to gain large size you could just stop progression. Hows that strike ya?

Contributor

I just received some really good feedback so a new addition soon to come with some editing corrections


zerzix wrote:
Hey Trace, Thanks for the input! I had actually looked over the medium wemic and at the time I thought the large base seemed more "realistic" if someone was really part Lion as it also is large based. The wemic was one of my first conversions and now looking back I might change it a bit. So that at first to forth level you are medium and become large at 5th. That way if you didn't want to gain large size you could just stop progression. Hows that strike ya?

Sounds workable, but I was under the impression that racial hit-dice progressions were an all-or-nothing proposition — you had to go through all the levels of your ‘racial class’ before you took levels in a PC class, even if you didn’t (for some reason, like this case) want all the racial levels available. Was I mistaken?

As to the size issue, I got the impression from their description, as smaller and mane-less, that the ‘mountain wemic’ was based on the American cougar (AKA mountain lion), and the size-difference simply mimicked the relative sizes of the cougar and the African lion. The two kinds of wemic are distant cousins, AFAIK, somewhat like the relationship between ‘normal’ goblins and bugbears (with the latter being bigger and tougher), though I’ve no idea if they’re inter-fertile like goblinoids.

Contributor

Ah, I see...what I kinda meant was that there would be a labeled stop point for the Mountain Wemic and a further progression for 'normal' Wemic. And yeah, most rules state that you finished Monster levels prior to taking any other class levels, but in my house rules I actually encourage the opposite as it slows down Monster progression and adds flavor (wizard/fighter and such). - but that's just me. lol


Got’cha. ;)

Contributor

Here's V21! I added a few things like Table of Contents, hyperlinks, edited a few things and a couple of corrections. Again, thanks everyone for the input and feedback!!

(Of course hyperlinks don't work from google docs so if anyone wants a true pdf copy just pm me your email and I'll send a true pdf version)

Bestiary Levels v21


... very interesting. Quite the elegant solution, too — I’ve been meaning to fold mountain-wemics into a semi-homebrew PbP of Rise of the Runelords I’m working up, and I’d say that should work quite well. Thank you very much! :thumbsup:

Now to read the rest of the document.... :blush:

Contributor

w0ot! Glad you like it. =) Oh and if people download from google docs the hyperlinks do actually work. Rock on!

Grand Lodge

Living the fact that you added a table of contents. That makes things so much easier.

Half-Janni still have resist fire 5. It should be 10.


v21 is nicely improved.

I assume all Awakened creatures are from the spell http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/awaken

That arbitrary "awakened creatures gain 2 HD" is a bit problematic when trying to determine progression by level.
Let's use Dire Wolf on page 167 of v21 as a discussion creature. Thinking out loud here...normally they are fully formed at 5 HD so should an awakened dire wolf have to wait until 7 HD to receive +2 Str, +2 Dex & +2 Con? Probably not, or it would be stunted growth compared to a 5 HD dire wolf. Maybe 6-7 HD have no ability score bonuses; they are all gained by 5 HD? Similarly, if a dire wolf was awakened from birth would it be a minimum of 3 HD?

Regarding size, at 1 HD it might be Small-sized, though leaving it Medium-sized is probably ok. I'm trying to think of size at birth for a large animal. For example, a Medium-sized human has a Tiny-sized baby, not a Small-sized one.

Under Traits and Class Features it would be helpful to add a comment that it 'gains 3d6 Int and +1d3 Charisma'. In fact it would be better to list base ability scores, such as "A baby awakened dire wolf has base ability scores of Str 11, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 3+ (roll 3d6), Wis 10, Cha 11+ (roll 10+1d3)"

Include "+4 vs. trip" under 'Traits and Class Features' section.

'Languages: Common' should be 'Languages: Common plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus (if any)'.

HD progression might be along these lines...
1 HD: +2 Dex, Feat, +1 Natural Armour, Small Size, Bite 1d4, Speed 30 ft.
2 HD: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, Medium Size, Bite 1d6 plus Trip, Speed 40 ft.
3 HD: +2 Str, Feat, +1 Natural Armour,
4 HD: +2 Str, +2 Con, Large Size, Bite 1d8 plus Trip, Speed 50 ft.
5 HD: +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, Feat, +1 Natural Armour
6 HD: -
7 HD: - Feat

...however above progression would change if ability modifiers for different sized creatures are considered. This would be similar to factoring in the Young Template, though reversing 'Table 2-2 Size Changes' on page 296 of Pathfinder Bestiary is more the size modifiers I'm pondering.

Contributor

I've battle those ideas exactly Silke! Especially with things such as a simple Dog or Cat awakened. The additional 2HD is a heavy hit compared to lets say a Sprite or Brownie that is still only 1HD and someone wanting to play a dog has to get hit for 3 levels in total...its not a perfect system by any means. Maybe in these cases I might revert to a case by case basis and say that the HD doesn't hold true here and revert to CR value?

Contributor

Oh, I also added in "Gearwork" race. Its a take off of clockwork variant. (Be gentle) let me know what you guys think?


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Hi. I have recently started a campaign with some people and we have created characters using several races from this book. We were all excited and intrigued to play as monsters. My question is what are your opinions on adjusting the CR for encounters for an entire party of stronger than average Pc group?

Contributor

Black Handed Mage wrote:
Hi. I have recently started a campaign with some people and we have created characters using several races from this book. We were all excited and intrigued to play as monsters. My question is what are your opinions on adjusting the CR for encounters for an entire party of stronger than average Pc group?

Hey Mage!

Thanks for the interest! I hope your campaign goes well. First off: most of these creations haven't been completely playtested...so you are actually an alpha/beta tester of some of these depending on which where selected.

Secondly...my intention was to covert these so that at any particular level they hopefully are equivalent to a 'normal' core book character at the same class level. With that being said, some monsters will obviously be over powered in terms of their specialty. Some might be better at a particular skill or have a unique power, but in terms of random situations they should not present any higher CR then a Human Fighter of similar level (hopefully)

But lets say they do - such as your pc's all selected Fire Giants as a race and they are about to fight Fire Elementals who's main ability is to do fire damage, then obviously the encounter level is going to be off.

In those cases I either let it fly as is and watch the PCs become giddy with excitement at their ingenious new powers and/or throw in something to even it up - like a fire elemental wizard that might throw a cone of cold at them.

At my particular table it seems that my players tend to play above the normal challenge rating by about +2 and so I normally boost my encounters with either adding in the Advanced template to monsters or adding in additional monsters to off set the encounter.

Hope this helps. =)

Again, let me know what they are playing and any feedback (good, bad, editing errors, inconsistencies and such) on the conversion


zerzix wrote:
Black Handed Mage wrote:
Hi. I have recently started a campaign with some people and we have created characters using several races from this book. We were all excited and intrigued to play as monsters. My question is what are your opinions on adjusting the CR for encounters for an entire party of stronger than average Pc group?

Hey Mage!

Thanks for the interest! I hope your campaign goes well. First off: most of these creations haven't been completely playtested...so you are actually an alpha/beta tester of some of these depending on which where selected.

Secondly...my intention was to covert these so that at any particular level they hopefully are equivalent to a 'normal' core book character at the same class level. With that being said, some monsters will obviously be over powered in terms of their specialty. Some might be better at a particular skill or have a unique power, but in terms of random situations they should not present any higher CR then a Human Fighter of similar level (hopefully)

But lets say they do - such as your pc's all selected Fire Giants as a race and they are about to fight Fire Elementals who's main ability is to do fire damage, then obviously the encounter level is going to be off.

In those cases I either let it fly as is and watch the PCs become giddy with excitement at their ingenious new powers and/or throw in something to even it up - like a fire elemental wizard that might throw a cone of cold at them.

At my particular table it seems that my players tend to play above the normal challenge rating by about +2 and so I normally boost my encounters with either adding in the Advanced template to monsters or adding in additional monsters to off set the encounter.

Hope this helps. =)

Again, let me know what they are playing and any feedback (good, bad, editing errors, inconsistencies and such) on the conversion

When I helped my players make the character sheets, I made them select monsters with racial levels of 10 or less. So that would exclude elementals, dragons, angels, and some of the more exotic monsters to play as. I have also ruled for them that in order to take levels in core and base classes, they must complete their racial classes before anything else. So far only one session and Pcs seemed pretty balanced even with ability score increases. Having another game tomorrow night with them so only time will tell.

Contributor

Black Handed Mage wrote:


When I helped my players make the character sheets, I made them select monsters with racial levels of 10 or...they must complete their racial classes before anything else

Nice idea. Again, my table rules are that players can freely mix racial levels and class levels at anytime. I know a lot of people have issue with this idea, but I have found that it's actually slowed racial leveling a bit and can even the playing field even more. Although some will always try to take advantage and min/max the situation. =)

Contributor

So I have been kicking around the idea after Silke brought up the Awakened problem of the spell adding in 2 HD which doesn't seem balanced when you look at a vampire 5 levels and a cat which would be 3 levels....and its a friggen cat.

So my idea is to simulate like I did with the Lycanthropes and make them "naturally" awakened characters and not subject to the HD...so a cat would have Int, Wis and Cha rolls but with out HD. So question would be should a naturally awakened cat be remain 1 level or be 2 levels as it is intelligent? Any thoughts?

Contributor

So far in re-converting them - it looks like the most balanced option is to add at least 1 level to the conversion. Making A natural awakened animal a minimal of 2 hit dice or 2 racial levels. With the thought that an intelligent cat would be a higher CR then a non-intelligent one.

Sound reasonable?

Contributor

Bestiary Levels v22

Here is version 22. clean ups, re-edits, a few consistency fixes. No additional monsters.


Is there a reason that you went for level based on HD, rather than for level based on CR and either dropping the HD or merging it?


very cool. appreciate the hard work Zerzix!

Contributor

DragonLord2190 wrote:
Is there a reason that you went for level based on HD, rather than for level based on CR and either dropping the HD or merging it?

Hey Dragon, I based all the conversions off of HD for a couple reasons. 1. as per Bestiary that one should use the creatures CR value as its level seemed too low. Most of these monsters are powerful enough even at HD conversion, but at CR conversion a Bearded Devil for example would be level 5 by CR conversion...a d10 hit dice, DR 5/good or silver; Immune fire, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10; and spell resistance 16. Not to mention greater teleport at will and summon devils. That's a lot for 5th level. Even a lot considering they are only HD 6. So it was a way to break down the monsters and work in some extra levels to slow the progression.

2. Using HD as level also seemed to work out some conversion problems and the further I used it the more it seemed to make the break downs easy, simplistic and more "elegant".

3. The last reason, was actually an after thought of playtest. Upon converting some creatures from CR = level and HD = level when my table play tested them the HD felt correct in its comparison to an equal leveled Fighter if not just slightly weaker. Which was what I was going for, for who would want to play a normal fighter if every monster conversion was more powerful? In straight toe to toe combat the Fighter normally should win per level. Obviously the monster might have advantages in certain circumstances. =)


Cheers for the response Zerz, I am curious what you think about taking a dragon from bestiary (we are level 5), then following the bestiary levels from that point forward.

I have seen dragons (reds in particular) at other tables done using the wyrmlings CR, then advancing by level and it didn't seem over the top or anything.

We are kingmaker, however, so the bestiary levels helps fix the issue of, say, a 5th level sorcerer wyrmling (cr5+5 levels) gaining 2 levels when it ages naturally, or even more, depending on how much time passes.


Oh, and would you be willing, at all, to do the rest of the outer dragons? Time dragon being most important, at this point.


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I would just like to say thank you for both myself and my wife. She has been wanting to play a succubus for years but I would always have to tell her it was too powerful. Now I no longer have to do such.
Plus the skull lord and the squirrel were awesome.
Great work and I'll be keeping an eye on this thread from now on.
Edit: Also I would love to see a mimic pop up some time. I would finally get to play as a shield.

Contributor

DragonLord2190 wrote:
We are kingmaker, however, so the bestiary levels helps fix the issue of, say, a 5th level sorcerer wyrmling (cr5+5 levels) gaining 2 levels when it ages naturally, or even more, depending on how much time passes.

Dragons were actually the first things I ever converted and started this long journey. lol I've had a number of players play Silver and Gold dragons due to them being good and gaining Alterself to help fit in when needing to go to cities and such.

DragonLord2190 wrote:
rest of the outer dragons? Time dragon being most important, at this point.

Ack...yeah, I guess I will...although my first things I converted...also my most hated things to convert. lol, but it'll give me something else to do.

/me walks off slowly like eeyore

Kannachan wrote:

I would just like to say thank you for both myself and my wife. She has been wanting to play a succubus for years but I would always have to tell her it was too powerful. Now I no longer have to do such.

Plus the skull lord and the squirrel were awesome.
Great work and I'll be keeping an eye on this thread from now on.
Edit: Also I would love to see a mimic pop up some time. I would finally get to play as a shield.

Hey Kan, I'm glad you like it! Let me know how the Succubus turns out, any feedback would be great! lol the squirrel was kinda a joke, but I wanted to make a point to one of my players.

A mimic huh? lol Ok, that'll be a weird thing to play.


I think it would be funny.
The succubus takes levels in sword and board fighter, shield bashes an enemy in the face, mimic latches on and begins suffocating the enemy.
If nothing else it would make for interesting stories.
I'm thinking of calling it: The tales of the boob and the box.
I plan to run a one shot game tomorrow so hopefully I'll have some feedback for you.


Part way into an adventure where the succubus and two ghouls are raiding a goblin lair.
The story behind it is that the succubus was summoned by a novice wizard and something wrong happened reducing her to a weakened state. The wizard commanded her to go wipe out a recent goblin infestation and sends two ghouls along with her to make sure she gets the job done.

So far one ghoul has been reduced to a handful of HP and the other one has been doing well. The succubus is switching between stealth and tank when needed.
Overall not too powerful but not too weak.

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