"Pulling" a spell


Rules Questions

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Is it possible to deliberately cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal in order to reduce the effect? For example, can a 10th level Wizard cast a Fireball that only does 1d6 damage?

If it is possible to do so, must all level-dependent variables be affected? For example, could I reduce a spell's damage while keeping the usual range?

Thanks!

Silver Crusade

By RAW no.

But I think you shoul be able to do so. I can see no reason why you should be barred from doing that.


As a houserule we've always said that spellcasters can choose to make their spells less effective if they want.

Thus far it's never happened, but in theory they could if they wanted to.

Paizo Employee Developer

You can craft items at a lower caster level, so such a thing is not without precedent. I do not see it being something unbalancing.

One caveat, I would not allow a player to cast a spell below the minimum level necessary to cast it. Your fireball would only be able to be taken down to 5th level (6th sorcerer). Taking it lower would deny the spell enough energy to be cast at all.

Keep in mind that lowering the caster level in this way would also lower the difficulty of dispel checks and the like, and make it harder to pierce SR.

Dark Archive

While I don't believe there are any rules for it, I'd allow it with a relatively easy spellcraft check, for a total modification (a 10th level spellcaster choosing to throw a fireball at CL 1, just to show off without burning stuff too badly), or a more difficult check for fine-tuning a modification (CL 1 for damage, but still CL 10 for range).

I'd allow a melee combatant to 'pull' an attack and forgo adding their strength bonus, specialization bonus, precision damage, etc., as well, but not something that isn't a product of their own skill / training / etc. such as a magical weapon property. (Although one could 'turn off' the flaming property or something.)

It recently came up in a PBP that Augment Summons, for instance, is 'always on' and, by the rules-as-written, one couldn't summon an augmented creature once you've learned the feat. The GM ruled that one could in fact choose to not use the feat, and I like the idea of extending that to most feats.

So I'd similarly allow an archer with Penetrating Strike to deliberately forgo the benefit of the feat if he has some reason to not actually want to penetrate the DR of the target (if he's pretending to attack the target, as part of a deception, for instance).

Other Feats, such as metamagic, are deliberately set-in-stone. So I wouldn't allow someone who prepared a Quickened spell to 'slow-cast' it as a spell four levels lower (even if they have an open spell slot at the lower level). That choice was made during spell preparation, and can't be as easily undone.

Edit:

Alorha wrote:

One caveat, I would not allow a player to cast a spell below the minimum level necessary to cast it. Your fireball would only be able to be taken down to 5th level (6th sorcerer). Taking it lower would deny the spell enough energy to be cast at all.

I initially thought this as well, but the Necklace of Fireballs has, since 1st edition, provided precedent that it's possible to make fireballs as small as 2d6, so I'm okay with the idea of a 1d6 fireball as well.


Tamago wrote:

Is it possible to deliberately cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal in order to reduce the effect? For example, can a 10th level Wizard cast a Fireball that only does 1d6 damage?

If it is possible to do so, must all level-dependent variables be affected? For example, could I reduce a spell's damage while keeping the usual range?

Thanks!

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html

Caster Level wrote:


A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

Bolding mine. So you could "pull" a fireball down to 5d6, but not down to 1d6. And yes, the range would go down to match a 5th level caster.

Dark Archive

Khuldar wrote:
Caster Level wrote:


A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

That's pretty cool, thanks for digging that up Khuldar!


I'm sure this feat idea has come up before:

Reduced Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit:A caster with this feat can modify a spell with any one of the following effects. This metamagic feat never modifies the level at which the spell is cast and cannot be combined with any other metamagic feat.
Minimized: All variable, numeric effects of the spell resolve at their minimum value.
Disempowered: All variable, number effects of the spell are halved.
Narrowed: A spell of the type elligible for the Widen Spell metamagic feat has its appropriate dimension halved.
Shortened: The spell's range is halved.
Brief: The spell's duration is halved.
Lowered: The spell's DC, as well as all other variables that depend on spell level except for the difficulty of the spell to prepare and cast, are calculated as if the spell was any the lower level selected by the caster. The caster can also choose to cast the spell at a caster level appropriate to the spell's lowered spell level.

With this feat, a wizard could cast a Reduced Fireball (Lowered) at spell level 1, Reflex DC 11+mod and 1d6 damage. Or a Reduced Fireball (Minimized) at normal spell level and Reflex DC for 5 damage.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Thanks, Khuldar, I think that pretty much settles it!

I appreciate everyone's input.

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