Hey all Jaded here, i'm currently in the process of writing up the night below for my group into pathfinder. Now i have a fair list of questions that i am currently trying to work out, but i figure ill start at the beginning and work my way through.
Now to be fair i am definitely going to take some liberties with this module, just want to get that out there, i do however want to stay strictly within the mod of pathfinder (monsters, etc.).
Now in this adventure their are A LOT of factions
* Aboleth
* Derro
* Illithids [Thinking about using Serpent Folk]
* Svirfneblin
* Kuo-Toa
* Ixzan (Evil Manta Rays with powerful magic) [Are they in the Books i cant find them, if not i need a good supplement]
* Rockseers (Good Aligned Underground Elves) [I know they aren't converted BUT im sure i can come up with something]
* Tanar'ri & Baatezu
So those are the factions (plus sub factions on the side) i need to think about what to use for subs for the Illithids, Ixzan, and Rock seers.
Also i need to figure out where i can set the campaign im thinking the river kingdoms or maybe in Varisia... but input would be helpful.
Anyway, thats what im starting with, hopefully i can get some ideas from the wonderful and amazing people here on the Paizo boards.
* Aboleth
* Derro
* Illithids [Thinking about using Serpent Folk]
* Svirfneblin
* Kuo-Toa
* Ixzan (Evil Manta Rays with powerful magic) [Are they in the Books i cant find them, if not i need a good supplement]
* Rockseers (Good Aligned Underground Elves) [I know they aren't converted BUT im sure i can come up with something]
* Tanar'ri & BaatezuSo those are the factions (plus sub factions on the side) i need to think about what to use for subs for the Illithids, Ixzan, and Rock seers.
Also i need to figure out where i can set the campaign im thinking the river kingdoms or maybe in Varisia... but input would be helpful.
Anyway, thats what im starting with, hopefully i can get some ideas from the wonderful and amazing people here on the Paizo boards.
Having successfully ran this boxed set back in the day from start to finish, I have a few ideas for you.
For Illithids sub them out with the Intellect Devourers. The Paizo treatment of these guys really fits nicely with NB and the overall theme meshes well.
Kuo-Toa can pretty easily be replaced with Skum.
For my money, if I were to do it over, I would replace the svirfneblin with Mongrelmen. While the two aren't really comparable, their role in the over all story could really be made all the more interesting.
The first thing that comes to mind for the Ixzan is a Cloaker. To get the magical abilities you would just need to apply class levels and for the vampiric ones a template.
When I ran NB I completely took the Rockseer elves out of it. At the time I didn't want yet another race based on terrain - its one of my pet peeves. So I just made them dwarves and when I needed them to walk through earth I said they were druids. YMMV
As for where in Golarion to set it, I think you're best bet is River Kingdoms. Haranshire can easily fit just about anywhere in that area.
One thing I remember from running this beast is the treasure. It is absolutely LOADED with $$$. You may want to seriously consider rebuilding every horde from scratch - unless that sort of thing doesn't bother you.
Also, speaking of treasure and subs, depending on what - if any - monster subs you use Finslayer becomes a VERY interesting weapon build.
If you want any other ideas feel free to ask.
Katerek thanks for the advice, definitely going to have to take a look at everything. As i go through i will be sure to post them ;) thanks again.
Zimriel's illuminating the Night Below is a great site with some fixes for problems the Night Below Campaign.
Here's an old thread on Enworld searching for a 3E conversion which might be a god starting point for a PF conversion.
Maldin's layered map of the Greyhawk Underdark includes the Sunless Sea of Night Below. Here's a discussion of it on canonfire.
Note that many link Wolfgang Baur's Kingdom of the Ghouls from Dungeon #70 to the Underdark of Night Below. Here's a thread about that with a great composite map.
Thanks Thanael! :) links are very much appreciated, this is definitely why i frequent these boards like i do. Some of the most helpful people you will ever meet are on these boards right here.
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Now in this adventure their are A LOT of factions
* Aboleth
* Derro
* Illithids [Thinking about using Serpent Folk]
* Svirfneblin
* Kuo-Toa
* Ixzan (Evil Manta Rays with powerful magic) [Are they in the Books i cant find them, if not i need a good supplement]
* Rockseers (Good Aligned Underground Elves) [I know they aren't converted BUT im sure i can come up with something]
* Tanar'ri & Baatezu
I'd use Cloakers for the Ixzan.
Katerak's ideas for using dwarves (or even Pech) for the Rockseers, is a good one.
After schooling most of the encounters, we ate a TPK against the grell. Gotta love those old-school D&D monsters (save vs. paralysis eight times! Fail one and die!).
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I am currently running Night Below in Pathfinder, but I have amended it a fair bit so its not a true conversion.
Intellect Devourers are working out well as a substitute for mind flayers. I also used them as a substitute for the fishy potions.
I replaced Rockseers with Pech, because they fit in better with my campaign world and the changes I made to the plot. Their derro connection was a bonus.
As others have suggested, I replaced kuo-toa with skum.
I am still undecided about Ixians. I'm moving towards the idea of using cloakers (replace fly with swim, and give them ixian personalities instead of claoker paranoia). EDIT - and I hadn't read Set's post when I wrote this!
I'm not running it in Golarion, but if I did it then Haranshire would probably be in a remote part of Andoran or Taldor.
Several folks have already chimed in with some suggestions. I would drop a vote for making a conversion of the creatures as is from the link to the Enworld 3.5 conversion. Most of the work will already be done, and in my opinion, the original monsters are what makes the adventure. Further, there will be a need for adding something additional to the basic encounters to spice it up a little. The largest complaint I heard about it was the repititious encounters with the same creatures. I offset that with roleplay and additional material that kept the PCs guessing what was really going on until someone fed them the info. It also helsp to bring them back aboveground periodically as part of the additional material.
Another thing I enjoyed adding was Finslayer and other choice items. I used the Weapons of Legacy book to build it and it became a not so overpowered tool at such an early stage, but at appropriate levels it became just the tool needed. Maybe some sort of "ritual" based magic involved with its conversion will make it useful throughout for your campaign as well.
Thanks for the input bill :), Making Finslayer a weapon of Legacy might be kinda cool but i never liked the fact that to use one you have to burn like 3 or 4 feats for it (call me wierd). I agree that the monster's do make the adventure, though i might be able to take some licensing with it... Something i will have to contemplate lol.
Either way though, i've got a bit of time, and this will be the "Welcome Back" Adventure for my group since we took a VERY long hiatus from gaming for a variety of reason.
A Big thank you to everyone who has put in their ideas and suggestions, I definitely want to make sure this is the best for my friends, so all help is greatly appreciated! Cookies and Chainsaws for Everyone! :D
Note: i would love to see a conversion and update of this mega Adventure (Bloody Campaign!). It would take a fair amount of work (probably a team of people i imagine) but it would be amazing!
Anyway, my 2 cp.
So im curious to know, how many people would be interested in doing a Re-imagining of the "Night Below" Super Adventure? To put it inline with Pathfinder and the current addition. Also because the 3.0 edition conversion apparently has gone the way of the DODO.
Let me know, and i will make a dedicated thread.
Just last week, I had a "Night Below" play-by-email game come to a premature end after two years. I'd probably be interested in playing, but I've played some already:
Would that disqualify me?
Should i decide to run a play by post? nah :). Very cool Estrosiath, send me the file if you get a chance (JadedgodIcn@yahoo.com) I was thinking about making it our own to. ANyway chat with you all later :)
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Hello,
This is one of my FAV box sets of all time! Here is a 3.x conversion of the stat blocks (might have already been posted above - not sure)
Go to A Night Below.
Hello,
This is one of my FAV box sets of all time! Here is a 3.x conversion of the stat blocks (might have already been posted above - not sure)Go to A Night Below.
Zerzix, am I correct in thinking that you did the conversion prior to the publication of Lords of Madness? If so, would you have made any changes based on the content of LoM?
Yeah - you are correct, these conversions were done before LoM and no update as of yet. =(
Hey thanks all, sorry i haven't actually replied for a while, life stuff :). Thanks for the conversion set-up, i will definitely have to read through it when i get a chance.
I've had ideas for the campaign i want to run swimming through my head all month, though im still not sure where to run the actually game (campaign world wise).
It will come eventually im sure, thanks again all i will let you know about my musings later.
Welcome to the boards Koleikos. Zerzix's conversion gives a good basis for converting to pathfinder. Quite honestly, book 1 is pretty straight forward with it's conversions. Book 2 and 3 are going to be the hard ones.
First, you need to decide what world you wish to but Night Below in. The first couple times I ran it was in Forgotten Realms. The last time I ran it was in a generic world with pathfinder gods.
Second, you need to decide if you are converting monsters from 3.5 to pathfinder or just using pathfinder monsters. Mind flayers, grells, kuo-toa, and ixians were all converted to 3.5 in various books but haven't been converted to pathfinder. A conversion between 3.5 to pathfinder is rather easy, the difficulty is in acquiring the monster stats (if placed in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, then there is the additional issue).
Third, how will you handle the multi-class characters? I have ran it the first few times with standard 2nd ed to 3rd ed rules (add 1/3 of lower level classes rounded down to highest level class). My preference in pathfinder was to use gestalt rules (from WOTC's Unearthed Arcana and in the SRD). Gestalt characters are roughly a CR 1 higher (pcs are ecl 2 higher or just use slow advancement).
Forth, will you use psionics? The box set tells you to not use psionics as there is so much else going on. The first few times I ran it I played without psionics and it was fine. The last time I ran it in pathfinder, I decided to use the Dreamscarred Press pathfinder psionics and I really liked it (if you use psionics I suggest you replace the mind flayers' cleric levels with psion levels and the aboleth's mage/cleric levels with psion plus use the aboleth savant prestige class from Lords of Madness (wotc) if you have it).
As most of the issues don't come up until book 2, I would suggest just focusing on the character development of book 1. It really is a great little sandbox to run the pcs through for a while. Once you are comfortable with the pathfinder rules, then I would make my decision on the above issues. Hope that helps.
I have also been working on kingdom stats for the surface towns if you are interested.
Melborne:
Kingdom bonuses: Economy +6, Loyalty +8, Stability +6
Community Bonuses: Corruption +1, Crime +1, Law +1, Productivity +5, Society +2, Fame +1
Population: 160 (per book but per rules population would be 4500)
Base Value: 500gp (500gp max based upon description but 2,000gp based upon stats)
Defense: 0
Magic Items: 1 minor potion, scroll, or wondrous item
Layout:(locations are by x,y coordinates on a standard district map with 1,1 being in the far left, lower corner)
Houses: 1,2 2,1 6,2 6,4
Tavern: 2,2
Guildhall (this reflects the closed market): 3,1-2
Mill: 4,1
Bridge(half): 5,1
Pier: 6,1
Inn: 5,2
Noble Villa: 1,3-4
Shop: 2,3
Stable: 2,4
Granary: 3,3
Smith 4,3
Shrine (made the temple a shrine due to the small size of it): 3,4
Trade Shop (Garyld's shop): 5,4
Thurmaster:
Kingdom bonuses: Economy +4, Loyalty +1, Stability +3
Community Bonuses: Corruption +1, Crime +1, Law +1, Productivity +1, Society +1
Population: 100 (per book but per rules population would be 2000)
Base Value: 500gp (500gp max based upon description but 1,000gp based upon stats)
Defense: +2
Magic Items: 1 minor ring, wand, or wondrous item
Layout:(locations are by x,y coordinates on a standard district map with 1,1 being in the far left, lower corner)
Houses: 1,4 2,2 2,3
Exotic Artisian (Tauster's home): 1,1
Mansion ("Squire" Marlen's home): 2,1
Shop: 1,2
Pier: 1,3
Tavern 2,4
City Wall: x2 (given size treat as encompassing the town)
Harlaton:
Kingdom bonuses: Economy +2, Loyalty +1, Stability +1
Community Bonuses: Corruption +1, Crime +1, Society -1
Population: 75 (per book but per rules population would be 750)
Base Value: 500gp (500gp max based upon description but 1,000gp based upon stats but buildings only supply 500gp)
Defense: 0
Magic Items: None
Layout:(locations are by x,y coordinates on a standard district map with 1,1 being in the far left, lower corner)
Houses: 2,2
Tavern: 3,2
Tanery: 4,2
Palfray's Keep:
Kingdom bonuses: Economy +2, Loyalty +2, Stability +1
Community Bonuses: Law +1, Society +1, Fame +1
Population: 50 (per book but per rules population would be 1,000)
Base Value: 200gp (200gp max based upon description but 1,000gp based upon stats)
Defense: +3
Magic Items: none
Layout:(locations are by x,y coordinates on a standard district map with 1,1 being in the far left, lower corner)
Noble Villa: 1,1-2
Stable: 2,1
Barracks: 2,2
City Wall x1 (based upon size treat as encompassing)
Rulers in Palfray's Lands:
These are my best guesses as to whom would be in the specific positions.
Ruler: Count Sandior Palfray
Heir: Lyntern Palfray
Consort: Countess ____ Palfray (she is not named in the box set)
High Priest: Chaplain ______ (unnamed cleric 1 of LG deity)
Treasurer: "Squire" Marlen of Thurmaster
Warden: Garyld of Melborne
Councilor: Mayor Dorius Carmen of Melborne
Magister: Tauster of Thurmaster (this is only a guess as the only named arcane spellcaster in Haranshire)
Marshal: Kuiper the Ranger (this would be based upon Kuiper's self appointed nature in keeping the peace outside of the towns)
Spymaster: unknown
General: unknown
Grand Diplomat: unknown
Spymaster: unknown
You had them meet Jelenneth before Milborne? Interesting choice. Don't you run the risk of making the kidnappings to centered on Jelenneth after the first encounter?
Skip the first part of the campaign where the PCs drag their level 1 asses around, fighting the same-old goblins, orcs or bandits (or whatever it was. The same old level 1 s%%!). Go directly to the good parts.