There are no rules for epic levels or the creation of deities at all in Pathfinder currently. That means you have to use the 3.5 rules or make your own. While they do intend to do it one day it is far enough in the future that they have not set a date for it.
This information is spread through out several posts on the boards.<------- How I know
For now, I would use the Mighty and Eternal templates from the Simple Monster Templates pdf from Super Genius Games.
This advances a CR 20 creature to CR 27, and adds a couple of suitable abilities for "quasi-deity" npcs.
I hope they never actually stat up the gods. Once you give a god stats it's no longer a diety, it's just a monster that requires a level X character to defeat. It also leads to the ridiculousness of a cleric of that god surpassing their own god at a certain point.
GM's that think it is ok to defeat deities will make it possible anyway, and Golarion has already had such a thing happen, hence the creation of the Red Mantis Assassins.
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I hope they never actually stat up the gods. Once you give a god stats it's no longer a diety, it's just a monster that requires a level X character to defeat. It also leads to the ridiculousness of a cleric of that god surpassing their own god at a certain point.GM's that think it is ok to defeat deities will make it possible anyway, and Golarion has already had such a thing happen, hence the creation of the Red Mantis Assassins.
I'm not saying it should EVER be possible, but it shouldn't simply be a matter of grinding away until you have the appropriate level to go punch Rovagug to death. It should be a truly epic adventures. (Please not, I'm not using the word "epic" to simply refer to mundane level 21+ stuff. I'm talking about making it an adventure that's truly epic in scope.)
Anyhow, I think you mean THE Red Mantis, Achaekek...not simply the Order of the Red Mantis.
The Pathfinder Campaign Setting will probably never have stats for the true gods. The most they're going to do will be demigods.
That means archfiend-level entities (like the demon lords), as well as demigods like Achaekek. Everything beyond that will simply be gods. The ways non-deities can kill gods will not be revealed, if they exist at all. So beyond gods killing other gods (like Lamashtu killed Curchanus) and unique, mysterious events (Aroden's death), there will be no official godslaying.
If the GM insists that his players do something like that, he'll have to think of his own ways you can kill a god.
Err, I did not ask for gods' stats... Just if there was a template for quasi-deities. Thanks for clarifying the fact that there are none. I was not on a "Let's kill all the gods" mission or this kind of thing.
We know. We just threadjacked the thread, sorry about that. There is no Pathfinder rules for deities or demi-gods though.
I hope they never actually stat up the gods. Once you give a god stats it's no longer a diety, it's just a monster that requires a level X character to defeat. It also leads to the ridiculousness of a cleric of that god surpassing their own god at a certain point.GM's that think it is ok to defeat deities will make it possible anyway, and Golarion has already had such a thing happen, hence the creation of the Red Mantis Assassins.I'm not saying it should EVER be possible, but it shouldn't simply be a matter of grinding away until you have the appropriate level to go punch Rovagug to death. It should be a truly epic adventures. (Please not, I'm not using the word "epic" to simply refer to mundane level 21+ stuff. I'm talking about making it an adventure that's truly epic in scope.)
Anyhow, I think you mean THE Red Mantis, Achaekek...not simply the Order of the Red Mantis.
I agree with you. I don't let my players defeat deities, demon lords, or the lords of the line. At the most they might get to beat up on an archduke.
I hope they never actually stat up the gods. Once you give a god stats it's no longer a diety, it's just a monster that requires a level X character to defeat. It also leads to the ridiculousness of a cleric of that god surpassing their own god at a certain point.
So how do you get to play those Hercules/Xena/God of War moments with D&D characters? You know...the stuff that really makes you feel and be a legend? Taking on a deity-like monster or being?
Nothing is worse than having players get envious about what their characters cannot accomplish yet the very same fantasy heroes in video games, movies, TV shows, and japanese anime can perform.
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Dunno, killing dragons with 6 seconds worth of swining/shooting does sound pretty epic to me.
As does casting wish.
Or teleporting across dimensions.
Seriously, D&D gets epic somewhere around level 15. People who want new, epic rules are either the ones that get high on the idea of killing gods or those who really like four-digit numbers and miss them in their game.
I'm neither *shrugs*.
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I hope they never actually stat up the gods. Once you give a god stats it's no longer a diety, it's just a monster that requires a level X character to defeat. It also leads to the ridiculousness of a cleric of that god surpassing their own god at a certain point.So how do you get to play those Hercules/Xena/God of War moments with D&D characters? You know...the stuff that really makes you feel and be a legend? Taking on a deity-like monster or being?
Nothing is worse than having players get envious about what their characters cannot accomplish yet the very same fantasy heroes in video games, movies, TV shows, and japanese anime can perform.
If the only think that you consider "epic" is killing a diety, I pity your lack of imagination.
Well, although I personally don't think you need to kill gods to make a game epic, there are basically two philosophies in Dungeons:
1. Gods are gods, and the players are only mortals! How dare you say that your players could slay a god, you silly munchkin! Your game must suck, etc...
2. Gods, like anything else, have stats, and can be killed. They are in essence extremely powerful creatures that have worshipers and can grant spells, but they do not have any special protection against being slain by anyone (apart, obviously, from their extremely high level of power and/or immunities).
Although, as I said, I was looking for the aforementioned information for other purposes, I think outlook B makes more sense. I mean... Treerazer is CR 25 and he grants spells. Demon Lords, up to CR 32, grant spells. What CR does that make gods? Around 40? 99% of parties will never make it to that level of power, but for those who do, I don't see any issue with the apotheosis of a campaign culminating in the death of a god.
I guess I should be more specific. In a one-time campaign I would not care if a deity died, but if I ever run a world where every adventure affects the world in some way I don't see it happening. There is a site called dicefreaks.com that has similar stats to what my deities would get. Download the Gates of Hell pdf. It actually has the Lords of the nine, but you will get my point.
Hi, I was just wondering if someone official (or someone who knows the official line) could answer a couple of questions for me:
1. Progressing after 20th level, spellcasters gain access to one new "Spell level" every odd level. Does having a high intelligence grant access to bonus spells of levels 10th and above?
I think you may be using the Forgotten Realms Epic rules from the orignal 3.0 campaign setting. Epic level handbook rules do not progress the classes in that way (it takes a feat to get a new spell level).
In either case, yes, high ability scores grant additional 10th+ level slots. [Not to be confused with epic spell slots by the way.]
No, I am actually quoting the pf SRD on progression after 20th level. :)
Since there are no official Pathfinder rules for epic-level play, I'm guessing you're not quoting from Paizo's own PRD, but rather from the unofficial D20PFSRD. Given that, you'll have to ask the person who created that unofficial rule.
Edit: Sorry, found what you were referring to. Those rules are stated to be "brief guidelines" that "aren't robust enough", so I'd be careful about using them.
Anyway, if you use those guidelines, you will indeed gain bonus spells of the new levels for a very high ability score. Just continue the table on page 17 of the Core Rulebook:
For 10th level spells, you'll get 1 bonus spell with 30+, 2 bonus spells with 38+, and 3 bonus spells with 46+.
Add 2 points to get bonus spell slots for 11th level spells, then another 2 points for the bonus spell slots for 12th level spells, and so on.
So how do you get to play those Hercules/Xena/God of War moments with D&D characters? You know...the stuff that really makes you feel and be a legend? Taking on a deity-like monster or being?
Hercules/Xena: Well, those gods weren't really godlike. They'd probably be no more than demigods in Pathfinder, if that. The way they got a regular beating in those shows doesn't make them look very godly.
God of War: From what I've heard, those games are way out there. They're totally over the top. You start the game playing a god.
That stuff isn't really part of Pathfinder. Pathfinder is about mortal heroes. They can become legendary, but you don't have to kill a god to become legendary.
Nothing is worse than having players get envious about what their characters cannot accomplish yet the very same fantasy heroes in video games, movies, TV shows, and japanese anime can perform.
First, how can the heroes in the games etc be the very same as in the RPGs? Unless people have so little fantasy that they can't come up with original characters, of course.
Second, they'll have to get over that envy. They can't have anything. They should stop be a bunch of crybabies and grow up already.
Video games, films, TV series, and, especially, japanese manga/anime, sometimes have extreme premises.
Some of those premises don't really work as anything other than stories (the non-interactive sort), and others just don't work in Pathfinder.
That's a basic fact people must understand. Pathfinder is not about playing gods. It's not about playing characters that can cleave planets in two with their super heaven sword. It's not about being a witch from the middle ages wielding four bazooka tonfas containing the essense of a demon and summoning miles-high demon queens with their hair, stopping time at will to beat up angels and then executing special attacks dealing damage that is measured in gigatons.
So how do you get to play those Hercules/Xena/God of War moments with D&D characters? You know...the stuff that really makes you feel and be a legend? Taking on a deity-like monster or being?Hercules/Xena: Well, those gods weren't really godlike. They'd probably be no more than demigods in Pathfinder, if that. The way they got a regular beating in those shows doesn't make them look very godly.
God of War: From what I've heard, those games are way out there. They're totally over the top. You start the game playing a god.
That stuff isn't really part of Pathfinder. Pathfinder is about mortal heroes. They can become legendary, but you don't have to kill a god to become legendary.
Nothing is worse than having players get envious about what their characters cannot accomplish yet the very same fantasy heroes in video games, movies, TV shows, and japanese anime can perform.First, how can the heroes in the games etc be the very same as in the RPGs? Unless people have so little fantasy that they can't come up with original characters, of course.
Second, they'll have to get over that envy. They can't have anything. They should stop be a bunch of crybabies and grow up already.
Video games, films, TV series, and, especially, japanese manga/anime, sometimes have extreme premises.
Some of those premises don't really work as anything other than stories (the non-interactive sort), and others just don't work in Pathfinder.
That's a basic fact people must understand. Pathfinder is not about playing gods. It's not about playing characters that can cleave planets in two with their super heaven sword. It's not about being a witch from the middle ages wielding four bazooka tonfas containing the essense of a demon and summoning miles-high demon queens with their hair, stopping time at will to beat up angels and then executing special attacks dealing damage that is measured in gigatons.
so your saying because this idea doesn't fit (even most) campaigns it should not be an option at all!!! im sorry i thought the idea behind DND was to create an impossible world of fantasy and share a story between friends. how you gonna go and let video games outdo us man? why ya gotta be like that. and seriously you call people you don't know cry babbies. just because they would like to continure characters theyve been playing for 5 years and would like to continue playing ( and hey why not gain a level to continue getting rewarded for fighting things hey look that fits the rest of the game lets stay with that. ) thoses character onward and upward.
one more thing WHY protest new material if you don't want to use it don't buy it.
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If you want to have a home game where you battle gods, use Pathfinder as a base borrow stuff from D&D's Epic Level Handbook. But don't expect Paizo to stat out the gods of Golarion, because it's already well documented that you're pretty much a bamf in the world if you get to 11-15th level. The best you'll see are stats for demi-gods, but that will be forever until you see those.
A few things, it really falls to the GM whether G-ds can be killed or not, for instance in games I run G-ds don't even really exists they are ideas created by high priests to create somewhat of a pyramid scheme of magic. (note I am a religious person, but this idea works really well for the world I have) With the complex plot going on that some miracles and divine servants exist and serve these powers which make the high priests wonder if these beings really exist and are actually manipulating them.
Now then I also am a big fan of deities being capable of being bested, or even killed in some scenarios. I agree with some of the people on this forum that mentioned making it an epic adventure. In a campaign I played in during high school, we started going after a cult that we did not know much about they were our consistent nemesis during the three year long campaign, of course during this campaign we slowly had revealed to us that the cultist served an incredibly powerful Chaos G-d, and when most of the party was around level 40 or so and we had specific gear, we went after him, we had killed his Avatar on several occasions, and bested the leaders of his cults, and assassins. We died screaming. Why not because we were not powerful enough but because we had not gone about finding the right things to battle a G-d with especially in their own domain. On the other hand we did kill the G-d of slaughter as the ultimate homage to said G-d.
My advice for running epic level campaigns is to have people start multi classing. I am running a epic villain campaign soon, and the plan for that campaign is that each party member needs to have some CR from a monster or template or multiclass, as I will not allow them to expand past level 20 in any specific class. or at least for the time being, before I work on designing my own epic rules.
while I doubt this will help I haven't posted in a while and felt like putting my opinion out there, thank you for listening to my ramblings.