Need Help Building a Barbarian / Alchemist...


Rules Questions

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I'm finally getting a chance to play some PFRPG and am tossing around the idea of a barbarian/alchemist focused on mutagens and rage. I'm hoping you fine folks might help me with some questions, such as...

Will my barbarian rage stat bumps stack with my mutagen stat bumps?

If I take the fied totem, lesser barbarian rage power and grow horns, will that be a primary attack even if I attack with claws and bite from feral mutagen? Here's the text of the ability:

Fiend Totem, Lesser (Su): While raging, the barbarian grows
a pair of large horns, gaining a gore attack. This attack is a
primary attack (unless she is also attacking with weapons,
in which case it is a secondary attack) and is made at the
barbarian’s full base attack bonus (–5 if it is a secondary
attack). The gore attack deals 1d8 points of piercing damage
(1d6 if Small) plus the barbarian’s Strength modifier (1/2 if it
is a secondary attack).


Sebastian wrote:


I'm finally getting a chance to play some PFRPG and am tossing around the idea of a barbarian/alchemist focused on mutagens and rage. I'm hoping you fine folks might help me with some questions, such as...

Will my barbarian rage stat bumps stack with my mutagen stat bumps?

First of all welcome to Pathfinder! :-)

Regarding the rage and mutagen question: Rage gives morale bonus, mutagen gives alchemical bonus. So yes, they stack.

Sebastian wrote:


If I take the fied totem, lesser barbarian rage power and grow horns, will that be a primary attack even if I attack with claws and bite from feral mutagen? Here's the text of the ability:

Fiend Totem, Lesser (Su): While raging, the barbarian grows
a pair of large horns, gaining a gore attack. This attack is a
primary attack (unless she is also attacking with weapons,
in which case it is a secondary attack) and is made at the
barbarian’s full base attack bonus (–5 if it is a secondary
attack). The gore attack deals 1d8 points of piercing damage
(1d6 if Small) plus the barbarian’s Strength modifier (1/2 if it
is a secondary attack).

Natural attacks are categorized into primary and secondary attacks according to their type. Therefore, if you gain multiple natural attacks from various sources, you can use all of them at their indicated attack bonuses - provided they do not overwrite each other (you can only have one bite attack, one pair of claws on a humanoid etc.)

Hope this helps.


Gore, bite, and claws are always primary attacks (unless used in combination with a weapon or specifically called out). You'd attack with the full BAB for those and normal STR mod for damage on all attacks.

The rage stat bumps are morale bonuses and the mutagen stat bumps are alchemical bonuses so they'd definitely stack.

Interesting build...the smart beast barbarian that shreds things with their bare hands. Could be sick and fun =p.

EDIT:And ninja'd...

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Thanks. So, when the fiend totem ability references a "weapon" it does not include a different natural weapon?


Sebastian wrote:
Thanks. So, when the fiend totem ability references a "weapon" it does not include a different natural weapon?

No, it really is just calling out manufactured weapons.

Shadow Lodge

As far as I can tell it works fine... I would require you to say "I rage, activating my Munchkin Horns" every time though.


0gre wrote:
As far as I can tell it works fine... I would require you to say "I rage, activating my Munchkin Horns" every time though.

QFT

I will let the DM know.


This is exactly the rage power I took when I built my version of Ogre's amazing Hyde build Master Chymist.


I built pretty much exactly this for my last campaign, it was REALLY REALLY REALLY good, sick powerful...
Amulet of Mighty Fists with either Vicious and/or Furious is amazing.
I went with just 2 lvls of Barb (just for rage/rage powers) and the rest alchy... Was a lot of fun :D

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...


Sebastian wrote:
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...

Ah, not so! As long as they are willing to take a brief, 1 hour pause every 10 minutes / alchemist level, you can make as many mutagens each day as you like.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...
Ah, not so! As long as they are willing to take a brief, 1 hour pause every 10 minutes / alchemist level, you can make as many mutagens each day as you like.

Problem with that on the tables I run, that strategy can work very well, save when the times you really need it. I've never allowed a "15 minute day" in m DMing career.


LazarX wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...
Ah, not so! As long as they are willing to take a brief, 1 hour pause every 10 minutes / alchemist level, you can make as many mutagens each day as you like.
Problem with that on the tables I run, that strategy can work very well, save when the times you really need it. I've never allowed a "15 minute day" in m DMing career.

Hmm...our group also isn't keen on making it easy for the PCs to retreat at their leisure. However, we frequently have 15-minute or less days in Adventure Paths because the characters are built for endurance and can literally clear the dungeon, start to finish, on that time scale (15 minutes is 150 rounds). In fact, our three-man group in Curse of the Crimson Throne (which has one alchemist and one barbarian/alchemist like in the OP, but no horns) has cleared every dungeon so far except the final one in Part 2 in less time than that (and when the going gets tough, we do multiple dungeons in a single day). If the PCs managed this in your game, would you allow them the 15 minute day?

Shadow Lodge

Sebastian wrote:
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...

Yeah at lower levels the 10 min/ day thing is a bit of a bear and multi classing makes it a bit worse. Once you get over an hour a day it's not bad. Also, depends a lot on the adventure, sometime 10 minutes per day is enough (Kingmaker is bad about one encounter per day, which makes it very friendly to Nova based characters for quite a bit of the series).

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...
Ah, not so! As long as they are willing to take a brief, 1 hour pause every 10 minutes / alchemist level, you can make as many mutagens each day as you like.

...

Oh wow...I missed that...

Mha ha ha!!! Look at my short stature and azure clothes, and know fear! Many a house will be dropped upon my enemies this day.

Shadow Lodge

Sebastian wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with an eye towards the degenerate. Of course, the real problem will be convincing the party to commit to a 10 minute/(alchemist level) adventuring day (the period of time the character can stay hulked out)...
Ah, not so! As long as they are willing to take a brief, 1 hour pause every 10 minutes / alchemist level, you can make as many mutagens each day as you like.

...

Oh wow...I missed that...

Mha ha ha!!! Look at my short stature and azure clothes, and know fear! Many a house will be dropped upon my enemies this day.

Yes but you still only have 7 rounds of rage a day.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

0gre wrote:
Yes but you still only have 7 rounds of rage a day.

The rage is the lollipop. Most encounters will likely be defeated through the house dropping. ;-)


Barbarian/Alchemist?

I can just picture the toughened warrior of the steeps, muscle's bulging, barely contained rage boiling beneath the surface as he looks across the battlefield at his enemy. His powerful arms twitch in anticipation at the violence to come and the blood he is about to shed...but first, does the composition of calcified goblin-horn act as a reagent with silica-bromide? Or does that just create a bit of fizzle and a yellow smoke? Putting aside his weapon, scarred and worn from countless battles, the barbarian pulls a small book from his pouch along with a pair of golden rimmed spectacles and begins dictating chemical reactions and musing of the results of applied chemistry to the Alagorn Conundrum...then the giant's rock hits him.

I guess I just don't get some class combinations :P

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I tend to be liberal with how I perceive classes, and monks and barbarians are those I most often recast. As a DM, I've been known to plop monks down as bad-assed street fighters with little formal training. Barbarians get re-skinned as big dudes with anger management problems.

So, with that in mind, here's how it works (for me)...

Professor Monetque L. Banner is a Chelaxian alchemist who prides himself on his even temper and calm demeanor. He dresses in conservative upper class clothing, favoring jackets and button down shirts. He doesn't see himself as an adventurer, but rather, the person who is escorted by adventurers.

But, then the s&%@ hits the fan, and everyone needs a weapon. The Professor sees no choice - to survive he must consume his latest experimental mutagenic formulae. His skin turns a sallow yellow, his ears become pointed and goblin-like, and his nails turn long and black. He is surpised to learn how much he actually likes fighting and uses his knowledge of anatomy together with his enhanced strength to dissect opponents in the heat of battle.

As the formulae wears off, he finds himself hungering for it. He takes to carrying a large axe, which he can't use with any level of proficiency, because it just feels right. He also finds himself losing his temper - something that never happened before.

After some time adventuring (i.e., he hits second level), his rage matures into something akin to his mutagen. Now, when angered, his muscles bulge. The axe begins to feel natural. And when he is under the effects of his mutagen, he demands that his companions call him Leopold. Although Monteque fights reluctantly, if at all, Leopold is a creature of animal savagry, cunning, and fury. He is no mindless brute - he wields Monte's formidable intellect as yet another weapon in his arsenal.

Despite their different monikers, Monte and Leopold are still fundamentally the same person, and as the Leopold persona is brought to the forefront more and more, it wears off on Monte. He wears Leopold's armor and uses Leopold's weapons, even when not using his formula. He hungers for battle, and thirsts for the oblivion and power of the mutagenic serum.

That's my take - the barbarian class is more a package of berserker fighting traits resulting from the mutagen's operations on the character's psyche. Neither personality would enter a barbarian tribe, or even consider itself an uncivilized barbarian. He is an alchemist...

But you wouldn't like him when he's angry...


very good job at that, too many times on these boards or at my own table! all I hear when asked about concepts is; I hit stuff hard, or I fly and drop bombs, etc ad naseum.

so its good to see someone think outside the box or seperate from just what cool combo gives me the most power.

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