So in Pathfinder when does a cleric get spontaneous casting?


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

This is just a funny thing I noticed, so for the first time ever, a player in my games wanted to play a cleric. I haven't seen a cleric played in DnD, ever. So even though I know about cleric spontaneous casting when putting together her character (she was a new player, and I had 2 new players for the game) I was rushing, and just used the chart. Honestly because spontaneous casting is listed nowhere in the cleric chart, I forgot about it until I read a thread here that mentioned it. Our cleric is now level three, so she's been missing out on spells this whole time. Wow, so why was spontaneous casting removed from the chart, Orisons are listed, so you'd assume that spontaneous casting would be there too. [sarcasm]Do clerics just never get it, do we pick what level they get it?[/sarcasm]

Shadow Lodge

lastknightleft wrote:
This is just a funny thing I noticed, so for the first time ever, a player in my games wanted to play a cleric. I haven't seen a cleric played in DnD, ever. So even though I know about cleric spontaneous casting when putting together her character (she was a new player, and I had 2 new players for the game) I was rushing, and just used the chart. Honestly because spontaneous casting is listed nowhere in the cleric chart, I forgot about it until I read a thread here that mentioned it. Our cleric is now level three, so she's been missing out on spells this whole time. Wow, so why was spontaneous casting removed from the chart, Orisons are listed, so you'd assume that spontaneous casting would be there too. [sarcasm]Do clerics just never get it, do we pick what level they get it?[/sarcasm]

Spontaneous Casting does not give extra spells. It allows you to substitute, at any time, a cure (or inflict) spell of equal level for another prepared spell. Clerics have it at level 1.

It's true, it's not listed in the chart, specifically, but perhaps that was an oversight. Or perhaps it was considered a subset of channeling, since the energy of the channel determines the energy of the spells converted.


We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

Sovereign Court

Alorha wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
This is just a funny thing I noticed, so for the first time ever, a player in my games wanted to play a cleric. I haven't seen a cleric played in DnD, ever. So even though I know about cleric spontaneous casting when putting together her character (she was a new player, and I had 2 new players for the game) I was rushing, and just used the chart. Honestly because spontaneous casting is listed nowhere in the cleric chart, I forgot about it until I read a thread here that mentioned it. Our cleric is now level three, so she's been missing out on spells this whole time. Wow, so why was spontaneous casting removed from the chart, Orisons are listed, so you'd assume that spontaneous casting would be there too. [sarcasm]Do clerics just never get it, do we pick what level they get it?[/sarcasm]

Spontaneous Casting does not give extra spells. It allows you to substitute, at any time, a cure (or inflict) spell of equal level for another prepared spell. Clerics have it at level 1.

It's true, it's not listed in the chart, specifically, but perhaps that was an oversight. Or perhaps it was considered a subset of channeling, since the energy of the channel determines the energy of the spells converted.

Right but there were times she didn't cast a memorized Comprehend languages when she could've used a healing spell, so yeah she would have had extra spells. I know how spontaneous casting works, I know you're trying to be helpful, but yeah, if you go from not being able to cast a spell because it's situational benefit isn't relevant to being able to cast a spell that would help you, that can count as extra spells, also if you are memorizing cure spells (which she was) then memorizing them as other things because she can choose to cast a cure at any time also counts as having extra spells. Maybe not numerically as she still has the exact same # per day, but I wasn't speaking numerically, I was speaking in essence.

I think it was an oversight, and I was just pointing it out as it's no biggie to us experienced 3.5ers but to new players it's a pretty big oversight as they'll have no way of knowing when they're supposed to get it, unless they're playing with experienced players, and that's not always the case.


It's in the class features, not the table.

In fact, a lot of things first-level abilities are only listed in a class' features section, and not the table. That's just the way of things. Be sure to fully read a class entry, as well as having the player do the same.

Sovereign Court

Heaven's Agent wrote:

It's in the class features, not the table.

In fact, a lot of things first-level abilities are only listed in a class' features section, and not the table. That's just the way of things. Be sure to fully read a class entry, as well as having the player do the same.

name anything other than weapon and armor proficiencies. I didn't read the class feature section because I thought I remembered everything. The problem is that it doesn't tell you in the class feature description when you can do it either, it just says clerics can. An experienced player will make the assumption, a new player will look at every other class and see that abilities are listed on the chart at the level they get them.

It's not some gamebreaking thing, I'm just pointing it out so that they can put it on the clerics chart at first level for future printings and on the PRD


lastknightleft wrote:
name anything other than weapon and armor proficiencies. I did read the class feature section, the problem is that it doesn't tell you in the class feature description when you can do it either, it just says clerics can. An experienced player will make the assumption, a new player will look at every other class and see that abilities are listed on the chart at the level they get them.

A druid's spontaneous casting, as well as its chaotic, evil, good, and lawful spells. A druid's bonus language option. A wizard's bonus language option.

These things that aren't included on the table, because they aren't tied to any specific level.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

I was curious as to which chart it was "removed from" and checked the SRD and my PHB. In 3.5 the only thing in the cleric table is "turn or rebuke undead".

I don't really see the problem here- so you both overlooked it. Oops. Now you've found it - have fun!


nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

I like this house rule. I'm not even playing a cleric, but I'm going to see if my DM is open to it.

Sovereign Court

carborundum wrote:

I was curious as to which chart it was "removed from" and checked the SRD and my PHB. In 3.5 the only thing in the cleric table is "turn or rebuke undead".

I don't really see the problem here- so you both overlooked it. Oops. Now you've found it - have fun!

There's no problem, I was just pointing something out that I saw as an issue. We have had fun and continue to have fun, I just think it should be added to the chart. If it isn't, as you said it isn't in the cleric chart in 3.5, oh well, hope others don't miss it as well.

Scarab Sages

nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).


i think there was a feat in one of the completes that let you spontaneous a domain in addition to heals.


vidmaster wrote:
i think there was a feat in one of the completes that let you spontaneous a domain in addition to heals.

It was an alternate class feature in Player's Handbook II for 3.5 rather than a feat; though, it's possible it was a feat in a supplement I'm not recalling prior to that.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Allen Oh wrote:

Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

That's really rather useful! I shall immediately suggest it to my group - thanks for the great idea!


Allen Oh wrote:
nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).

Does anyone still play a spontaneous caster in your games? Because I honestly would not see any point in it anymore. IMO, you have removed the one big advantage of classes like sorcerer or oracle this way.

Btw, APG offers an alternative solution with the preferred spell feat. For domain spells I would have to think about, but for other spells it works for sure - just one at a time, which is what the developers seem to have intended...


Allen Oh wrote:
nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).

That really bones sorcerers and spontaneous casters in general, but hey if it's fun for you and your group then it works.


This doesn't seem like an issue with the game. Is really the games fault you and your player didn't read the entry for cleric? :)

Scarab Sages

If it's any consolation, it's in the cleric chart from the PFSRD.


Allen Oh wrote:


We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).

Any spell on your spell list ? IMO that's a bit much, and as others have pointed out kind of steps on the Sorcerer & Oracle.


Allen Oh wrote:
nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).

You should try Zalanzy type spellcasting. (By That one moderator guy on these forums... Ross?)

carborundum wrote:

That's really rather useful! I shall immediately suggest it to my group - thanks for the great idea!

And you should too!


Davick wrote:
Allen Oh wrote:
nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).

You should try Zalanzy type spellcasting. (By That one moderator guy on these forums... Ross?)

carborundum wrote:

That's really rather useful! I shall immediately suggest it to my group - thanks for the great idea!

Perhaps if you have a nice link or something to point in the right direction it might reach some people..

And you should too!


Remco Sommeling wrote:
Davick wrote:
Allen Oh wrote:
nighttree wrote:
We "houserule" in our games that clerics are able to spontaneously cast any domain spells they gain from their god. It gives the character more of a focus on their god's area's of concern. If you choose to go that route, just disregard bonus spell slots that the cleric would normally gain for preparing domain spells.

We also have a houserule, and it applies to anyone who prepares spells ahead of time. Our houserule says that you can burn off an equal- or higher-level spell to spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list.

The catch is that casting a spell in this way takes at least twice as long as if you had prepared it, with a minimum of one full round per spell level.

This lets us focus on preparing combat spells, while preserving access to out-of-combat spells. The mechanic is such that you would almost never cast spells in this way in combat, especially now that we're regularly slinging fifth level spells that would take at least five rounds to cast spontaneously per our houserule.

My cleric's favorite application of this houserule is to cast Blood Biography and play CSI: Barsaive (our campaign takes place in the Earthdawn setting).

You should try Zalanzy type spellcasting. (By That one moderator guy on these forums... Ross?)

carborundum wrote:

That's really rather useful! I shall immediately suggest it to my group - thanks for the great idea!

And you should too!

Perhaps if you have a nice link or something to point in the right direction it might reach some people..

Oh yeah... www.google.com

but for those new to the internet: http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~rbyers/Zelazny%20Spellcasting.pdf


Core Book wrote:


The cleric can “lose” any prepared spell that is not an orison or domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower.

I would assume as soon as one is able to prepare spells one could "lose" a prepared spell. Any player who is casually glancing at a table to figure out their class features might want to look into a less involved game.

Contributor

lastknightleft wrote:
I didn't read the class feature section because I thought I remembered everything.

That's your problem right there. If you're going to play a class, you should read the entire entry for a class.

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