I would like to make "potions"/elixirs of various spells that aren't eligible for the Brew Potion feat. "Personal" or "target you" spells like shield, divine power etc... So I started looking at the various single use wondrous items to reverse engineer their prices and can't seem to come to a satisfactory formula. Their prices seem all over the place. So, how would you make these sorts of items(in general)
or reverse engineer these prices(specifically)?
3000gp price; Resilient Sphere, 4th level spell x 10th level caster (it lasts 10min).
This small black sphere appears to be a lusterless pearl. A bead of force can be thrown up to 60 feet with no range penalties. Upon sharp impact, the bead explodes, sending forth a burst that deals 5d6 points of force damage to all creatures within a 10-foot radius.
Once thrown, a bead of force functions like a resilient sphere spell (Reflex DC 16 negates) with a radius of 10 feet and a duration of 10 minutes. A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the latter is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. The sphere contains its subject for the spell's duration. The sphere is not subject to damage of any sort except from a rod of cancellation, a rod of negation, disintegrate, or a targeted dispel magic spell. These effects destroy the sphere without harm to the subject. Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally. The subject may struggle, but the globe cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within. The explosion completely consumes the bead, making this a one-use item.
2500gp price; Zone of Truth, 2nd level spell x 3rd level caster.
This white tallow candle, when burned, calls into place a zone of truth spell (Will DC 13 negates) in a 5-foot radius centered on the candle. The zone lasts for 1 hour, while the candle burns. If the candle is snuffed before that time, the effect is canceled and the candle ruined.
500gp price; Zone of Truth, 2nd level spell x 5th level caster.
This elixir forces the drinker it to say nothing but the truth for 10 minutes (Will DC 13 negates). She must answer any questions put to her in that time, but with each question she can make a separate DC 13 Will save. If one of these secondary saves is successful, she doesn't break free of the truth-compelling enchantment but also doesn't have to answer that particular question (if she does answer, she must tell the truth). No more than one question can be asked each round. This is a mind-affecting compulsion enchantment.
150gp price; Charm Person, 1st level spell x 4th level caster.
This sweet-tasting liquid causes the character drinking it to become enraptured with the first creature she sees after consuming the draft (as charm person—the drinker must be a humanoid of Medium or smaller size, Will DC 14 negates). The charm effect wears off in 1d3 hours.
Or if you are brave, Candle of Invocation.
Bead of Force: Single-use activated (when thrown). 4*10*50 = 2000gp. Adhoc 1000gp added on for not being able to damage the sphere.
Candle of Truth: Single-use activated (when burned). 2*3*50 = 300gp. Normal duration is 3 minutes. This duration is 60minutes. Adhoc 5600gp added for duration, adhoc 3500gp removed dur to easily dispelled (candle goes out).
Elixier of Truth: Single-use activated (when drunk). 2*5*50 = 500gp. Adhoc 500gp added for duration, adhoc 500gp removed for needing to consume and additional saving throws.
Elixier of Love: Single-use activated (when drunk). 1*4*50 = 200gp. Adhoc 50gp reduction for needing to consume and randomness of effect (first person and random duration).
Basically, to make non-cookie cutter wonderous items, you need to ad-hoc a lot.
1000 on the bead is for the damage it deals which isn't normal for the spell.
duration increases costs -- minute per level spells get the base cost doubled.
Most of this isn't ad-hoc as it is following the little bits at the bottom of the chart.
duration increases costs -- minute per level spells get the base cost doubled.
That's only for continuous items actually. I think most of those items in particular are simply legacy pricing.
Necklace of Fireballs follows the 50 gp formula pretty exactly actually.
Sorry yes that is only for the duration items -- like the bead of force and elixirs and candles.
Sorry yes that is only for the duration items -- like the bead of force and elixirs and candles.
No. Only items that are continuous, like minor cloak of displacement, etc. Always on. Anything "charged", or particularly single-use is not directly governed by that rule.
Only "Use-activated or continuous - Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2" has that 2 footnote attached.
Duration does of course have a cost impact.
Ah I see what you are saying now. Also no body slots however does apply to most (if not all) these wondrous items which does double cost.
Not generally... that would mean all potions should be twice as much.
Thanks for the replies. I was kind of looking for less "Ad hoc", but it seems magic item pricing is just strange. I wish Pazio had done a better job with it. I always thought it should be a Function over Form system.
Brew Potions becomes "Craft 1 shot, Use Activated item" of a particular type. (pottery shards you break, candy you eat, etc...to activate the spell)
Craft Wand becomes "Craft charged, Spell Trigger item".
Craft Wondrous item just seems too much a collection of, it doesn't fit anywhere else...it gets made by CWI.
So, would it be broken to say you can create Elixiers of "personal" spells with CWI for x2 the cost of a potion? Opinions?
A lot of the "Personal" range spells are made that way (and barred from inclusion as potions) because they are intended/balanced for use by that specific class. Opening them up to easily (and cheaply, relative to higher level characters) could be unbalancing. I'm looking at YOU, True Strike.
Not generally... that would mean all potions should be twice as much.
Potions are not wondrous items and have completely different crafting rules because of this -- I specifically stated wondrous items.
I don't understand why you feel you can't make potions of spells with that have "Personal" or "targets you".
The Brew Potion feat's first sentence reads:
"You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower
spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures."Last I checked, you are "a creature," which is defined in the "common terms" portion of the core rulebook as:
Creature: A creature is an active participant in the story or world. This includes PCs, NPCs, and monsters.There is no real reason to have to reverse engineer items for spells fitting the conditions noted in that first sentence, simply brew the potion.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
One of the problems plaguing item creation is the rules are scattered all over the place; hard to track down all the minor details unless you are very familiar with the book.
Brew Potions becomes "Craft 1 shot, Use Activated item" of a particular type. (pottery shards you break, candy you eat, etc...to activate the spell)Craft Wand becomes "Craft charged, Spell Trigger item".
Craft Wondrous item just seems too much a collection of, it doesn't fit anywhere else...it gets made by CWI.
There's no reason you can't do this, provided you still obey the restrictions on what can be made into a "potion" or "wand". One of the 3.5 Complete books had some kind of tablet you broke to activate as an alternate potion. It's when you expand what can be made into a potion or wand that there's problems, because that starts affecting game balance.