|
Basically what I want to do is come up with what elements of DL/Krynn are key to the world and could be used to make a Pathfinder friendly setting that isn't dependent on the highly involved meta-plot of the novels. Sort of a "Generic/Iconic Dragonlance" if that makes any sense.
I've started by going through the pc races and the base classes (core & apg) and figure out what needs changing and or removing. Here's what I have so far.
RACES
Half-Orc - disallowed
Halfling - (I like the Wanderlust alternate, but I don't want to give up Fearless & Halfling Luck for it. I'm thinking of just swapping the skill bonuses listed for Sure-Footed's ones.)
Gnome - apply Master Tinker & Pyromaniac alternates (Pyromaniac isn't perfect, but it's better than Gnome Magic & Illusion Resistance.)
CLASSES
Cleric - write up Deity/Domain pairings
Sorcerer - maybe restrict bloodlines?
Wizard - write up WoHS archetype
Oracle - takes place of Mystic
Summoner, Magus, Gunslinger, Ninja, Samurai - disallowed
Anyone have any thoughts on what I have here so far?
Depending on the era, I would have to apply differing rulings on sorcerers. First off, I would stick with the concept of bloodlines not really meaning ancestry. During the War of the Lance, no PC sorcerers allowed, without a VERY good background. Most sorcerers work for Takhisis with the draconic bloodline, so I would make PCs earn the right to play a sorcerer.
If you have played Dragon Age, you may want to mine the setting for ideas on the WoHS. No templars, but they do police "apostates" in much the same manner. Maybe the tower even has an arcane version of the inquisitors to hunt them down.
|
|
Depending on the era, I would have to apply differing rulings on sorcerers.
I'm specifically making this to be not associated with an era. It's meant more to give the general feel of DL without worrying about the details of each time period.
First off, I would stick with the concept of bloodlines not really meaning ancestry.
Actually this might not be a bad idea. I could rename the bloodlines as "Realms".
I liked the Dragonlance setting.
I would first and foremost get a hold of the 3.0/3.5E version of the Dragonlance rule set that came out in 2003ish. Look for the following Books or pdfs:
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting
War of the Lance (has great racial prestige classes; tinker, handler, etc.)
Age of Mortals (has various 5th Age prestige classes)
Knightly Orders of Solamnia (all the knight orders; Solamnia, Steel, Dark knights)
Holy Orders of the Stars
Towers of High Sorcery
Bestiary of Krynn
Bestiary of Krynn revised
I strongly suggest you use the info there. It’s probably the easiest to do a conversion from those to Pathfinder. It lists all the different subraces, kender, gnomes, draconians, irda and minotuars, as well as how the different classes fit in. However, it is based on the time period after the War of Souls series, but with you trying to do an anti-era-specific setting, just collapse some of the stuff from the War of the Lance era into the post War of Souls era. Although, the rules give in these books are pretty robust, allowing for most of the classes yet keeping the Krynn flavor. It’ll be up to you to decide how to incorporate the APG classes.
Here’s some suggestions, other than just use the rules in the aforementioned books above.
Races
Simply make adjustments to the PF standard races to fit with those of the Dragonlance world (halflings to kenders, etc.), and use the aforementioned Dragonlance Campaign book to do so.
Draconians – use the ones in the DL book too, may need to make some adjustments to Pathfinderize them. Or use the Dragonborn and add in the death sequence effects for each type.
Elves – either use the subrace info in the DL book, or just stick to the PF elf with a few alternate racial traits for the various subraces.
Gnome – definitely apply Master Tinker to the race outright, don’t swap it. Pyromaniac doesn’t fit very well. You could always come up with your own, of course. That is a DM’s prerogative.
Halfling - I'd just add the Wanderlust alternate to the race. It's not overly powerful and no worse than being a drow in another campaign.
Irdas – use the info in the DL book, because there is NO equivalent to them.
Minotaurs – use the ones in the DL book above and maybe make a few adjustments.
Classes
Most classes should be good, some will be more difficult.
The following classes should be no problem and usable as is: barbarian, fighter, monk, ranger, rogue, and cavalier.
For others, read the DL book I mentioned and see if those ideas fit. You need to decide whether you want “renegade” arcane spellcasters or “heathen” priests to exist in your setting. For the various arcane and divine casters, I suggest the following, depending upon your decision:
Bard – simply allow them to be as they are, but required to pass the tests of high sorcery at the same level as Wizards are required to, or branded “renegades”.
Cleric – every cleric must belong to one of the 18 Orders of the Stars or branded “heathens”; may need to restrict domains accordingly
Druid – must worship one of the nature gods but do not need to belong to the Orders of the Stars
Paladin – can be a paladin of a good god without belonging to the Knights of Solamnia; however a Knight of the Order of the Sword MUST be a paladin
Sorcerer – must belong to the Wizards of High Sorcery or branded “renegades”; may need to restrict bloodlines, bloodlines may point to certain color robe, such as a fiendish bloodline to black robes, etc.
Wizard – must belong to the Wizards of High Sorcery or branded “renegades”.
Alchemist – like the tinker class, can probably be used as normal.
Oracle – replaces the Mystic
Inquisitor – must belong to the Order of the Stars, serve each order to track down heathens
Summoner – must belong to the Wizards of High Sorcery or branded “renegades”; should be considered as a “master” of the conjuration school, since all three robes cast conjuration magic.
Witch – must belong to the Wizards of High Sorcery or branded “renegades”; just consider them as a “master” of enchantment magic.
Knights of Solamnia
The Knights of Solamnia are considered a prestige class in the DL books I mentioned. Take a look
Otherwise, I’d do one of the following:
1) Do a complete PF conversion
2) Simply use the following classes as equivalents of the orders.
Order of the Crown – as the cavalier class
Order of the Sword – as the paladin class
Order of the Rose – a little more problematic. I would use the paladin as the Rose base; then swap features from the paladin for features from the cavalier and the shining knight paladin archetype.
|
The DLNexus has some stuff up for PF, but a lot of it is for the beta sadly. They seemed to have shifted to 4E mostly now :(!!
I mostly agree with Lightbringer, but would say keep the Knights of the Sword Cleric, Rose a Paladin, and drop Summoner completely.
Dragonlance also has a few more base classes that need buffed up. The Master, Mariner, Noble, and one or two more I think.
Now what to do about Oracles (if they replace mystics)? Drop the curse completely? They dip have a Pathfinder Mystic doc which might be better to build on. It is more like Sorcerer bloodlines.
|
|
If you want the DL game to be true to the novels, I think you should run it as E8. No one ever learned to teleport and fireball was always one of the biggest spells.
I recall a few times that mages" walked the pathways of magic" all, among higher level spells. Fireball was big because in that edition it was a powerful spell.
I would suggest that arcane casters have to take the Test of High Sorcery once they can cast 2nd level spells. So, after 3rd level for witches and wizards, after 4th level for bards, magi, sorcerers, and summoners.
I wouldn't strictly ban any class, but if you really emphasize the flavor of the campaign, you'll probably get PCs that really fit well. They'll self-select out of the oddball classes, or come up with really awesome back stories to justify it for themselves.
Dalamar teleported all the time, it seemed. But that might be a Master of the Tower ability....
I would give kender the wanderlust ability too, but stat them out as +2 Dex and Cha, -2 Str and Wis.
I might stat out tinker gnomes as +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Str, -2 Wis. They are sturdy, with clever fingers and minds, but weaker than big folk, and known for making foolish mistakes.
And Life Quest can be a trait!
Some of this class's abilities may need to be re-flavored to be quasi-scientific or steampunky to mesh well with the flavor of tinker gnomes (tastes like chicken!). And I'm sure there are some cool Tinkering Talents I haven't thought of.
TINKER
BAB: +¾
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d8
Class Skills: Appraise, Craft, Disable Device, Fly, Heal, Knowledge arcana, Knowledge engineering, Knowledge nature, Perception, Profession, Ride, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks Per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier.
Tinkers are proficient in all simple weapons, the hand axe, hand crossbow, light hammer, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, throwing axe, throwing hammer, and warhammer. Tinkers are proficient in all armor, and shields.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Master Craftsman, Tinker Item, Tinkering Pool, Tinkering Talent
2. Tinkering Talent
3. Bonus Feat
4. Tinkering Talent
5. Bonus Feat
6. Tinkering Talent
7. Bonus Feat
8. Tinkering Talent
9. Bonus Feat
10. Tinkering Talent
11. Bonus Feat
12. Tinkering Talent
13. Bonus Feat
14. Tinkering Talent
15. Bonus Feat
16. Tinkering Talent
17. Bonus Feat
18. Tinkering Talent
19. Bonus Feat
20. Master Tinker, Tinkering Talent
Master Craftsman: At 1st level, the tinkers receive Master Craftsman as a bonus feat, even if they do not meet the requirements. Treat the tinker’s class level as his caster level. The tinker can use this feat to qualify for any item creation feat they are high enough level to select.
Tinker Item (Su): Tinkers know how to make a temporary, one use, magical item on the fly. As a full round action, a tinker can spend one or more points from his Tinkering Pool, and create a temporary magical item. The tinker must use the magic item within one round per class level or it loses its magic and becomes inert. The tinker can make a magic item with a caster level up to his class level. The tinker must have an Intelligence score of 10 + the level of the highest level spell used in the construction of the magic item. The number of points the tinker spends from his Tinkering Pool is dependent on how often the magic item can be used, as indicated on the following chart:
Usable at will: 1 point
Usable a limited number of times per day: 2 points
Usable by spending a charge from a limited number of un-rechargeable charges: 3 points
Useable once: 4 points
Tinkering Pool (Su): A tinker has a Tinkering Pool with a number of points equal to ½ his class level + his Intelligence modifier. These points are spent to power his Tinker Item ability, as well as some of his Tinkering Talents. These points are restored each day after resting for 8 hours.
Tinkering Talents (Ex, Sp, or Su): At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the tinker learns one of the following tinkering talents.
Clever Quartermaster (Ex): If given an hour to prepare his gear and load his backpack, belt pouch, and other carrying containers, the tinker may add his Intelligence bonus to his Strength score for the purposes of determining his encumbrance. The tinker can also retrieve an item as a swift action (instead of as a move action) a number of times per day equal to his Intelligence bonus.
Clockwork Companion (Su): The tinker learns how to build autonomous constructs that serve him. Treat these as animated objects that are under the control of the tinker. The tinker can create clockwork companions with a number of hit dice equal to ½ his level. Building a clockwork companion costs 100 gp per hit die. The tinker can create any number of clockwork companions, but after the first, the tinker reduces his daily Tinkering Pool by 1 for each clockwork companion beyond the first. The tinker must be at least 2nd level to select this talent.
Devious Devices (Ex): The tinker adds his Intelligence modifier to Disable Device and Use Magic Device skill checks.
Devious Item Activation (Su): The tinker adds his Intelligence modifier in place of the default ability score modifier when determining the DC of any Saving Throw of any magic item he activates.
Disable Construct (Su): As a standard action, the tinker can disable a construct by making a successful melee touch attack against a construct, spending 1 point from his Tinkering Pool, and making a Disable Device with a DC equal to 10 + the HD of the construct. If successful, the construct is entangled for 1d6 rounds and its damage reduction, if any, is reduced by 5. If the tinker beats the Disable Device DC by 10, the construct is also staggered for 1d6 rounds, and its damage reduction, if any, is reduced by 10. If the tinker beats the Disable Device DC by 20, the construct is instead paralyzed for 1d6 rounds and its damage reduction, if any, is reduced by 15.
Disrupt Item (Su): As a standard action, the tinker can suppress the magic of a magic item within 120 feet for 1 round per level by spending one point from his Tinkering Tool and making a level check with a bonus equal to his Intelligence modifier against a DC of 10 + the caster level of the item.
Efficient Item Creation (Ex): The tinker reduces the amount of time it takes to construct magic items by half. The tinker can select this talent up to 3 times, and the effects stack (the second time this talent is selected, the tinker reduces the amount of time to ¼ normal; the third time this talent is selected, the tinker reduces the amount of time to 1/8 normal.
Enhance Armor or Shield (Su): The tinker can enhance the armor he wears and/or the shield he wields, giving it an enhancement bonus to armor class, and possibly one or more special abilities. The armor or shield remains enhanced for a duration equal to the duration of his Tinker Item ability. The tinker can spend a number of points from his Tinkering Pool up to ½ his class level, and the armor or shield he enhanced gains one plus of enhancement per point spent. An enhanced armor or shield must have at least a +1 enhancement before it can be enhanced with a special armor or shield ability.
Enhance Weapon (Su): The tinker can enhance a weapon he wields, giving it an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, and possibly one or more special abilities. The weapon remains enhanced for a duration equal to the duration of his Tinker Item ability. The tinker can spend a number of points from his Tinkering Pool up to ½ his class level, and the weapon he enhanced gains one plus of enhancement per point spent. An enhanced weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement before it can be enhanced with a special weapon ability.
Extend Tinker Item (Su): When the tinker uses his Tinker Item ability, the temporary magic item he creates remains usable for 1 minute per tinker level instead of 1 round per tinker level.
Extra Slot (Ex): The tinker selects one body slot. He may use one additional magical item in that body slot than normal. This talent may be selected more than once; each time the talent is selected, a new body slot must be selected.
Frugal Item Creation (Ex): The tinker reduces the construction costs of magic items by 10%. The tinker can select this talent up to 5 times, and the effects stack.
Greater Extend Tinker Item (Su): When the tinker uses his Tinker Item ability, the temporary magic item he creates remains usable for 1 day per tinker level instead of 1 hour per tinker level. The tinker must be 14th level and have the Extend Tinker Item and Improved Extend Tinker Item talents before selecting this talent.
Greater Inventive Combatant (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool as a free action and gain the use of three combat feats he qualifies for but does not possess for 1 round. The tinker must be 14th level and have the Inventive Combatant and Improved Inventive Combatant talents before selecting this talent.
Improved Extend Tinker Item (Su): When the tinker uses his Tinker Item ability, the temporary magic item he creates remains usable for 1 hour per tinker level instead of 1 minute per tinker level. The tinker must be 8th level and have the Extend Tinker Item talent before selecting this talent.
Improved Inventive Combatant (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool as a free action and gain the use of two combat feats he qualifies for but does not possess for 1 round. The tinker must be 8th level and have the Inventive Combatant talent before selecting this talent.
Inventive Combatant (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool as a free action and gain the use of one combat feat he qualifies for but does not possess for 1 round.
Mad Scientist (Ex): The tinker is insane. This results in a +6 bonus to Charisma and a -6 penalty to Wisdom. The tinker may apply his Charisma modifier in place of his Wisdom modifier to his Will Saves. When subjected to a confusion or insanity effect, the tinker may roll twice and choose either of the results. The tinker gains a number of class skills equal to his Intelligence bonus from the following list: Bluff, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeoneering, history, planes, or religion), Linguistics, Perform, or Stealth.
Major Magic (Sp): The tinker gains the rogue ability of the same name. The tinker must have the Minor Magic talent before selecting this talent. The tinker may spend one point from his Tinkering Pool to gain additional castings of the spell associated with this talent. The tinker may select this talent multiple times; the effects do not stack. Each time the tinker selects this talent, he must select a new spell; this new spell can be 1 spell level higher than the previous selection of this talent.
Metamagic Item Activation (Su): The tinker can add metamagic effects to wands and staves. This uses up 1 additional charge per additional spell level of the affected spell, and the tinker must know the metamagic feat being applied to the item.
Minor Magic (Sp): The tinker gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Potent Item Activation (Su): The tinker can spend 1 point from your Tinker Pool when activating a magic item and use your class level as the caster level of the magic item.
Rapid Repair (Sp): The tinker can use mending at will. The tinker can spend 1 point from his Tinkering Pool and gain the benefits of a make whole spell.
Skill Mastery (Ex): The tinker gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Surgery (Ex): When the tinker uses the Heal skill to Treat Deadly Wounds, he can spend 1 point from his Tinkering Pool and restore a number of hit points equal to the patient’s hit dice + tinker’s Intelligence bonus. A creature can benefit from a tinker’s Surgery ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + its Constitution bonus (if any). He can revivify a dead creature by making a DC 40 Heal check within a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier of the creature’s death; this restores the creature to 1 hit point.
Trapfinding (Ex): The tinker gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Treat Lesser Afflictions (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool and make a DC 25 Heal check and remove one of the following afflictions from a creature: dazed, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, negative level, or staggered. The tinker must be 6th level to select this talent and have the Surgery and Treat Minor Afflictions talent before selecting this talent.
Treat Major Afflictions (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool and make a DC 30 Heal check and remove one of the following afflictions from a creature: blinded, deafened, panicked, paralyzed, petrified or stunned. The tinker must be 12th level to select this talent and have the Surgery, Treat Minor Afflictions, and Treat Lesser Afflictions talents before selecting this talent.
Treat Minor Afflictions (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool and make a DC 20 Heal check and remove one of the following afflictions from a creature: dazzled, entangled, fatigued, shaken, or sickened. The tinker must have the Surgery talent before selecting this talent.
Ultimate Extend Tinker Item (Su): When the tinker uses his Tinker Item ability, the temporary magic item he creates remains usable for 1 year per tinker level instead of 1 day per tinker level. The tinker must be 20th level and have the Extend Tinker Item, Improved Extend Tinker Item, and Greater Extend Tinker Item talent before selecting this talent.
Ultimate Inventive Combatant (Ex): The tinker can spend one point from his Tinkering Pool as a free action and gain the use of three combat feats he qualifies for but does not possess for 1 round. The tinker must 20th level and have the Inventive Combatant, Improved Inventive Combatant, and Greater Inventive Combatant talents before selecting this talent.
Unique Weapon (Ex): The tinker invents a unique exotic weapon that he is proficient in. The weapon can be a light melee weapon, one-handed melee weapon, a two-handed melee weapon, a light ranged weapon, a one-handed ranged weapon, or a two-handed ranged weapon, and cause either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage.
Light weapons have a base damage die of 1d4, and a threat and critical range of 20/x2.
One-handed weapons have a base damage of 1d6, and a threat and critical range of 20/x2.
Two-handed weapons have a base damage of 1d8, and a threat and critical range of 20/x2.
Unique exotic weapons have 6 uniqueness points that can be spent to make the weapon exotic by adding features to it.
Increasing the base damage die by one costs 2 points.
Increasing the base damage die by two costs 4 points.
Reducing the base damage die by one adds 1 point.
Reducing the base damage die by two adds 3 points
Increasing the threat range to 19-20 costs 2 points.
Increasing the threat range to 18-20 costs 4 points.
Increasing the critical multiplier to x3 costs 2 points.
Increasing the critical multiplier to x4 costs 4 points.
Causing 2 types of damage (bludgeoning, piercing, and/or slashing) costs 1 point
Adding the brace ability costs 1 point
Adding the disarm ability costs 1 point
Adding the double weapon quality costs 3 points
Adding the monk quality costs 1 point
Adding the non-lethal quality costs 1 point
Adding the reach quality costs 2 points
Adding the throw-able quality costs 2 points
Adding the trip ability costs 1 point
Adding the Weapon Finesse quality costs 1 point
Visionary Genius (Ex): The tinker adds his Intelligence modifier to Heal and Perception skill checks.
Bonus Feat (Ex): At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the tinker gains one of the following bonus feats: Breadth of Experience, Cooperative Casting, Deft Hands, Magical Aptitude, Master Alchemist, Skill Focus, Well-Prepared, or any item creation feat or metamagic feat.
Master Tinker (Ex): At 20th level, the tinker gains the ability to make artifacts and intelligent magic items.
|
|
I just dont really see much presedence for the Summoner in DL, but thats just me. I kind of think the Alchy and some other classes are stretching it thin already.
I could see the Inquisitor in a few different ways. Ishtarian King Priest knights, disciples of the 3 moon deities as Renegade Hunters, various racial purists, and small sects of the Knights of Solomnia/Takisis/Neraka.
The Cavalier as Ergothan Cavaliers, as well as the three Knightly Orders, and similar groups, pretty obvious.
Alchemists as either Tinker Gnomes, some sort of psionics version of Primal magic, some of the strange "sorcerers" from the books that really don't fit any class, some of the legends in DL about how strange creatures are made, like the Chimera, Sphinx, and most Abberations.
Witch as one of the many renegade "wizard" factions, especially those tatfailed their test and continue to practice magic, but also as a sort of natural adept that was never schooled in High Sorcery.
Oracle, I think is a poor replacement for he Mystic. Or at least offers some issues. Namely the Curse, which so far no Mystic has sufferend. I think that it definetl needs dropped, bu wat to replace it with? Maybe the ability to apply negative metamagic feats that you posess like in the DL Beastiary Revised?
The only way I can picture the summoner in Dragonlance is maybe as a servant of Takhisis, summoning beasties from the Abyss...er Hell...er the Abyss.
Man those clueless primes from Ansalon are REALLY clueless!!!!
|
|
I am aware that each era has a lot of differences and needs to be treated as their own setting. That's my whole problem, the metaplot of Dragonlance is too strongly tied into the setting for my tastes so I'm creating a non-era specific generic feel. It will obviously be very non-canon and not fit in anywhere in the official timeline.
I'm going to include places, people, groups, etc from different eras that wouldn't normally co-exist. Like having both the WoHS at their prime and having the Academy of Sorcery. I haven't figured out all the details of this will work, but basically I want one generic DL setting that includes all my favorite elements. This will be a part conversion, part homebrew hodge-podge. Think of it as an alternate timeline where certain things happened in different orders. The primary changes would include the gods never leaving, primal sorcery being re-found sooner, the second cataclysm never happening. I actually like the bloodline aspect of Sorcerer's, so I may actually re-include that, just stating that probably 95-99% of them are Arcane, and the others are extremely rare.
As SmiloDan suggested, I'm not going to really ban any class so much as require really good explanations for the odd ones. As for the races, I'm staying as close to official rules as I can, so I'm content with what I have above. The other races that have been mentioned, like draconians, minotaurs, etc will be kept as monsters, not PC options. I have a conversion for the draconians off of DL Nexus. They are a straight conversion of the 3.5 versions.
|
|
The other races that have been mentioned, like draconians, minotaurs, etc will be kept as monsters, not PC options. I have a conversion for the draconians off of DL Nexus. They are a straight conversion of the 3.5 versions.
Just wanted to point out that in DL, the Minotaurs are much different. They are a player race, a Medium sized race, and fairly common, depending on your era.
They don't have most of the stuff from the MM/Bestiary Minotaur, and are almost adifferent creature completely. I would suggest just using the Half-Orc for the DL Minotaur, as Orcs don't exist in DL, so no Half-Orcs, either.
|
|
The other races that have been mentioned, like draconians, minotaurs, etc will be kept as monsters, not PC options. I have a conversion for the draconians off of DL Nexus. They are a straight conversion of the 3.5 versions.Just wanted to point out that in DL, the Minotaurs are much different. They are a player race, a Medium sized race, and fairly common, depending on your era.
They don't have most of the stuff from the MM/Bestiary Minotaur, and are almost adifferent creature completely. I would suggest just using the Half-Orc for the DL Minotaur, as Orcs don't exist in DL, so no Half-Orcs, either.
PC race or not, that's a decision for each DM to decide. As for them being medium size, I'll probably just apply the Young Template.
Depending on the era, I would have to apply differing rulings on sorcerers.I'm specifically making this to be not associated with an era. It's meant more to give the general feel of DL without worrying about the details of each time period.
I know you are trying for non-Era specific, but a few things would depend on era. Late eras have no ToHS left to worry about. Earlier eras have a tighter control on mages. You can create non-specific rules, but you will need to have the differences listed.
CrackedOzy,
I just finished reading through the Knights, Holy Order, and High Sorcery books I mentioned above. I thikng with a little tweaking, you can pretty much use those as source books.
Wizards are part of the Orders of HS, while sorcerers, and likely bards are part of the primal magic group not belonging to the towers. Use that book as a guideline, then just adjust the prevelence of each group according to your campaign design. Use the "Test" requirements, any arcane caster can be a part of one of the orders, but must take the test upon reaching a level in their class that gives them 2nd level spells. Then the Academy of Sorcery allows those who do not wish to belong to the Orders of HS to still practice, but are likely at odds with the disciplined Orders.
Divine spellcasters are pretty much part of the Holy Orders, even druids, and inquisitors, who could hunt down traitors; paladins are seen as the epitome of a particular order, divine servants chosen by a particular god of good - anti-paladins could simply be the same for evil orders. Even multi-classes monks are mentioned, so monks do exist, they just aren't very prevelant. Rangers are also covered in this book, and bards are mentioned, revering that they are much like the sorceres, but tend to be patronaged to Brachala since that's the god who upheld the nonmagical bards during the Age of Despair.
The knight orders are explained also. Knights of Solamnia are pretty much cavaliers with different features, some paladin-like, but these are pretty much special prestige classes for the setting. There are also the Dark Knights of Takhisis, and the Legion of Steel.
Really, if I was you, I would find these books very useful and exactly what I am needing. With them you shouldn't have too much problem amalgamating the various eras into a "grand era" with some changes to associations and responses between th various orders and groups. For example, perhaps the Wizards of High Sorcery don't hunt down renegades, since they belong to the group of Academic Sorcerers, but they may be seen as rivals and seek to engage them in arcane duels to prove themselves the better and stronger organization.
There are also all the other setting classes or PrCs(mariner, handler, etc.), as well as stated out NPCs and iconic individuals, like Magius, Huma, etc., and it's all 3.5E, which is a whole lot easier to convert to Pathfinder.
Bottom line, get ahold of them, take a thourough look, and I think you'll see what I see - great potential for a grand version of the Dragonlance setting where the organizations are in theri golden or near golden eras simultaneously.
There's another good book I found, Races of Ansalon. It has Gnome (with Tinker class, and charts to create inventions), the Kender (including the Handler PrC, and random pouch grab tables...), the minotuar, irda, all the standard races and their subraces, with all their stats, background info, etc.
Some things to note about DL. Even though they have Prestige Classes for the various groups, (Knighs, WoHS, Legion, etc . . .), characters can join those groups without being in the Prestige Class.
Yes. I am currently going through the various important classes/PrCs and upgrading them from the book set I mentioned. I'll let you know when I've posted them.
|
|
Well, to be honest, almost everything past the last few chapters of Summer Flame irritates me. Especially the Rise of Solomnia.
I can kind of see your point in that sense, though. The problem is that DL has always been very tied to the novels, which where very tied to the earlier rules. WotC forced the DL writers to do a lot of things that the majority of fans hated, but also to attempt to stay consistant with previous novel material.
Combined with a lot of the DL 3E game book writers not having a great grasp of the 3E rules tried to maintain some of its older style rules which tend to be very strange or sometimes just don't work well. The same thing happened with White Wolf's Ravenloft.
Another thing that it really had going against it is that many contributers all have their own version of DL, or rather which era of play should be the true current DL setting. Hence this thread most likely.
If your issue with the level cap is dragon size, might be easier to just restrict their size, but leave everything else the same?
I can sort of picture that big, barrel-chested Ergothian White Robe as a magus. Possibly even Gilthanis or Arakis or any of the fighter-mage characters. Definitely some of the draconians fight like that.
|
I guess that would work. They are suppose to be shape shifters anyway.
If your issue with the level cap is dragon size, might be easier to just restrict their size, but leave everything else the same?
Don't get too caught up on the size issue. Actual Dragon Lances were made to mount to a hardpoint on the dragonrider's saddle. They could be made pretty long IIRC.
Don't get too caught up on the size issue. Actual Dragon Lances were made to mount to a hardpoint on the dragonrider's saddle. They could be made pretty long IIRC.I guess that would work. They are suppose to be shape shifters anyway.
If your issue with the level cap is dragon size, might be easier to just restrict their size, but leave everything else the same?
Also, dragons could smaller in DL. The dragon lords during the War of Souls were supposed to be from another world & much bigger than the standard Krynn dragon. They claimed they were unusually big, but you could claim the opposite.
|
|
Well it is a good point about some of the changes between editions that make the setting very wonky. Like the Gish issue (grey robes, thorn knights, various renegades, Ariakan). In older editions this was just a rule, mages normally couldn't use armor, and in DL you could only have 1 patron deity. Wizards acted sort of like Clerics with Arcane magic, so no Mystic Theurge types could exist.
The rules changed to allow these in 3E, but it doesn't really have a mechanical logic in 3E DL, where a Wizard can take a level of Ftr and be able to use a sword and Full plate if they want. Or practice both arcane and divine magic. The theme is an explinationof rules that no longer exist.
The real secrete is to remember you don't need to allow all of the classes into the setting. That would reflect the feel. The problem you have with DL, is that you can't make up generic rules for all of the eras, except for a few core ideas. Too much of the setting is changed from era to era. Those changes are what make the introduction of some classes possible. You need to quit shoe-horning things into it that really weren't a consideration when the setting was first envisioned. The safe bet is to concentrate on the core classes, then you can add others based on which era the players are in. That means that some of the classes won't be there. Bards did not exist in DL. Why? Because the Tower would not allow 'apostates' to exist. As far as the Tower is concerned, they are mages. You can claim that it was because in 1e, bards were a pain to become, but you are wrong. It was because in 1e, bards were divine casters, using the druid list. No divine casters in the War of the Lance Era, so no druids or bards. I don't see druids EVER in DL, at least until the return of the gods towards the end of the War of the Lance. Then, only among the elves. My point is don't try to force a class to exist in the setting when there may be no reason to worry.
In the Kinslayer Trilogy, Kith-Kannan is rescued and returned to health by a Druid, so they do exist.
A druidess is also featured prominently in "Before The Mask" (Villains, vol. 1, which details Verminaard's early life before becoming a Dragon Highlord). It's been a long time since I read the novel, so I don't recall if she had any real divine power or was simply a "hedge witch", although I do recall that it's heavily implied that she had the gift of divination.
In the Kinslayer Trilogy, Kith-Kannan is rescued and returned to health by a Druid, so they do exist.
Which are elves, in ancient times before the Cataclysm? The Kinslayer series is about the division of the elven nations, if I remember.
The DLNexus has some stuff up for PF, but a lot of it is for the beta sadly. They seemed to have shifted to 4E mostly now :(!!
I don't get around these parts much, so I just saw this.
What you have to remember about the DL Nexus is that our materials are based on fan submissions. We have had both 4e and Pathfinder submissions.
So if you want to see more Pathfinder material for Dragonlance, feel free to write some up and submit it! We will be happy to host it.
I think there is room for both 4e and PF versions of Dragonlance.
I also thought of starting a DL Campaign, but more of a reboot. Start at the beginning & recreate the feel using Pathfinder. I wouldn't cling to the cannon exactly. To keep players on their toes, mainly.
|
|
In all honestly, I hope not. I really hate it when they take a group and try to shoehorn classes into it. I can see a Cavalier Archtype, but I think that otherwise Cavalier shouldn't get any special treatment over Fighters, Paladins, Clerics, or Nobles with the Knights of Solomnia/Takhisis, Legion of Steel, etc. . .
To echo many of the comments made by others....most of the DL setting is easily represented by existing elements in Pathfinder.
For many years I have more or less shown no interest in playing in any other setting....well, until Galorian caught my eye rescently ;)
A few things we did....
Witches where not usually part of the Order of High Sorcery,generally renegade.
Noble Drow stats where used for Irda, just switched out the spell like abilities for Alter self as a spell like ability.
We did drop the Oracles curse mechanic, then used the rest of the class as is re-named to Mystic.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In all honestly, I hope not. I really hate it when they take a group and try to shoehorn classes into it. I can see a Cavalier Archtype, but I think that otherwise Cavalier shouldn't get any special treatment over Fighters, Paladins, Clerics, or Nobles with the Knights of Solomnia/Takhisis, Legion of Steel, etc. . .
What do you mean shoehorn? I think that Cavalier is meant for characters like Knights of Solamnia. I really don't understand where you are coming from...
The only issue that I have with it is that you have to go through the petitioning process to become a knight, and that, in itself, is almost by definition a Prestige Class.
But, in the case that you have a character that was raised to become a Knight of Solamnia, (i.e. - Families of Knights) I think that is where a Cavalier with an order reflecting the Solamnic discipline would come into play.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
|
|
Oh, I agree that the Cavalier class (well some of it's orders) fit very well with the Knights of Solomnia. I just don't think that the Cavaliers should get any special treatment that way, because I really don't think that the other classes with as much, (or more) flavor with the Knights of Solomnia. I can definetly see Archtypes for the Cleric(Sword, maybe Rose), Noble (anything), and the Cavalier (Crown/Squire).
But besides the Paladin, I think the Cavalier is already fairly perfect, in all honesty, mechanics-wise. Thats just my opinion. I would love, love, love a newer Prestige Class that better serves the PF base classes in general, though.
|
|
Oh, I agree that the Cavalier class (well some of it's orders) fit very well with the Knights of Solomnia. I just don't think that the Cavaliers should get any special treatment that way, because I really don't think that the other classes with as much, (or more) flavor with the Knights of Solomnia. I can definetly see Archtypes for the Cleric(Sword, maybe Rose), Noble (anything), and the Cavalier (Crown/Squire).
But besides the Paladin, I think the Cavalier is already fairly perfect, in all honesty, mechanics-wise. Thats just my opinion. I would love, love, love a newer Prestige Class that better serves the PF base classes in general, though.
Oh, I wasn't arguing that at all. The cavalier is exactly what the Knights are. I was just thinking that it would be a prime move to make an order for Knight of the Crown, maybe Knight of the Rose. I agree that Knight of the Sword would fit better with Cleric.
^_^
I am currently running a DragonLance campaign using Ppathfinder, and made a few conversions and adaptations, mostly to classes players wanted to play, and some to myself.
The wizard was easy to adapt. At 4th level, a wizard must make the test of high sorcery. If they refuse, they are considered renegades, and follow the wizard table on the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. If they take the test and survive, they instead can, at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels select an order secret in place of the normal wizard bonus feat (order secrets are found on the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class on the Towers of High Sorcery book.
The knight I based upon the samurai (since it has more interesting options in place of the mount related ones the cavalier has, and I am trying to come up with some kind of 'ancestral weapon' as an option to the mount for a more 'foot soldier with the family sword' knight). Here are the mechanics for the Order of the Crown:
Challenge: Whenever a Knight of Solamnia issues a challenge, he receives a +1 dodge bonus to his AC against attacks made by the target of his challenge. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the knight possesses.
Skills: A Knight of Solamnia adds Knowledge (nobility) (Int) and Knowledge (religion) (Int) to his list of class skills. Whenever the knight uses Sense Motive to oppose a Bluff check, he receives a competence bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his knight level (minimum +1).
Order of the Crown Abilities: A knight who belongs to the Order of the Crown gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Heroic Initiative (Ex): At 2nd level, a crown knight receives a +1 bonus on initiative checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
Armor Training (Ex): At 8th level, a crown knight learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. In addition, a crown knight can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium or heavy armor.
Crown of Knighthood (Su): At 15th level, the crown knight is the living embodiment of the principles of honor, obedience, and loyalty. The crown knight gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (if any) on all Saving Throws and an additional +4 bonus on all saving throws against compulsions spells and effects.
I made a similar adaptation to the other solamnic orders as long with the Ergothan Cavaliers, the Golden Hammers, Knights of Neraka and Legion of Steel. Of course, a character can belong to any of the orders without having to take levels in the knight class.
The campaign has just started and everything is a work in progress, so all suggestions and ideas I find here would be very helpful.
