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Okay so my players and I are excited about this adventure path and I love the first adventure, the second adventure also has some great parts throughout it. My problem is I have no idea how I am suppose to motivate my players to look for proof to defend the beast.
Are there some key points I must have accidently skipped that is suppose to inspire the players? All I noticed was the request of the "Defense Attorney".
I love the stories that tie into finding his innocence but I am pretty sure my players are gonna insist he needs killed regardless, since murdering in a blind rage is still murdering and in some senses worse because it is something that cant be controlled.
So how are the rest of you going to motivate the players to defend something that they would normally hunt downa and kill?
And if I missed something please point it out to me?
Thanks
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Okay so my players and I are excited about this adventure path and I love the first adventure, the second adventure also has some great parts throughout it. My problem is I have no idea how I am suppose to motivate my players to look for proof to defend the beast.
Are there some key points I must have accidently skipped that is suppose to inspire the players? All I noticed was the request of the "Defense Attorney".
I love the stories that tie into finding his innocence but I am pretty sure my players are gonna insist he needs killed regardless, since murdering in a blind rage is still murdering and in some senses worse because it is something that cant be controlled.
So how are the rest of you going to motivate the players to defend something that they would normally hunt downa and kill?
And if I missed something please point it out to me?
Thanks
The judge offered them 100 pp each (or maybe it is 200) so monetary reward.
Its an interesting adventure for the right group, but CC is a return to a story arc then the more free form KM/SS APs some times the DM will need to work beyond the scope of the module to find enticement for your players characters so they WANT to do it, not feel like they have too.
The money makes a good motivator for those it holds sway over.
The other big one is Daramid's appealing to their sense of justice. She, a respected court justice, has reservations about the creature's guilt. That should be enough to at least make them wonder. Have her approach from the angle that every sentient thing deserves a fair trial and that the law shouldn't be suspended just because the accused is big and ugly. To accept the crimes at face value without even trying to investigate would be a mockery of justice.
That should spur lawful PCs into at least a token investaigation that, as they begin to find clues, should point to something darker that they will naturally follow up on.
Another part is when they're led downstairs to meet the creature itself. Once the creature opens up they may think a little different when it tells them of how it carried the Hergstag girl's body back while crying or when it may recite a bit of Taldan poetry (from the book it found). This may devalue its monster status and turn the "it" into more of a "him".
The module does say you're supposed to play him up sympathetically. My understanding is that while he has the intelligence of a fully grown man, he has the (relatively) undespoiled innocence of a child. Though he can go beserk in combat he isn't particularly crazy and he isn't mentally defunct.
He just has a lack of life experience and doesn't understand most things... despite having six class levels :P
Okay so my players and I are excited about this adventure path and I love the first adventure, the second adventure also has some great parts throughout it. My problem is I have no idea how I am suppose to motivate my players to look for proof to defend the beast.
Are there some key points I must have accidently skipped that is suppose to inspire the players? All I noticed was the request of the "Defense Attorney".
I love the stories that tie into finding his innocence but I am pretty sure my players are gonna insist he needs killed regardless, since murdering in a blind rage is still murdering and in some senses worse because it is something that cant be controlled.
So how are the rest of you going to motivate the players to defend something that they would normally hunt downa and kill?
And if I missed something please point it out to me?
Thanks
How do the characters know he killed in a blind rage without an investigation? :)
How do the characters know he killed in a blind rage without an investigation? :)
I think the OP means the investigation will abort partway through. They might get to explore the outlying towns, but they won't explore the Chymeric Works, for example. And you miss out on fun adventuring and XP if you skip the 'Works.
Okay so my players and I are excited about this adventure path and I love the first adventure, the second adventure also has some great parts throughout it. My problem is I have no idea how I am suppose to motivate my players to look for proof to defend the beast.
Are there some key points I must have accidently skipped that is suppose to inspire the players? All I noticed was the request of the "Defense Attorney".
I love the stories that tie into finding his innocence but I am pretty sure my players are gonna insist he needs killed regardless, since murdering in a blind rage is still murdering and in some senses worse because it is something that cant be controlled.
So how are the rest of you going to motivate the players to defend something that they would normally hunt downa and kill?
And if I missed something please point it out to me?
Thanks
First I would ask them why they would not want to help the beast. The answer may be something like it is a golem. Most golems are mindless and do as they are told without question. Since this one is sentient it is not just another monster. As a DM I often give my monsters personable traits so they are not just walking bags of XP.
The monster since it is being given a trial must be a citizen<---That may not be true, but as the DM you can make it so. After getting that point across the players should realize, how is up to you, that killing it may get them in legal trouble and/or that the town wanted to do the monster in, and stealing their "moment" may not be good.|
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First thanks for some ideas on trying to motivate the players.
Here is an example of how my players handled a situation. They get in a fight with drow who have mongrelmen for slaves/minions. Once the drow are slain the mongrelmen stop attacking and effectively surrender. The players proceed to kill them all because they were fighting alongside the drow. I brought up after the players committed to that action that they murdered those creatures their response was we don't know that it might have been a trick and our characters have no idea what those things are.
And yes I try to give story for anything that the players allow to have story. I hope I come up with some good motivation for these players to go through the whole adventure but I doubt I will find the opportunity without railroading them. I really prefer giving the players highways with exits.
First thanks for some ideas on trying to motivate the players.
Here is an example of how my players handled a situation. They get in a fight with drow who have mongrelmen for slaves/minions. Once the drow are slain the mongrelmen stop attacking and effectively surrender. The players proceed to kill them all because they were fighting alongside the drow. I brought up after the players committed to that action that they murdered those creatures their response was we don't know that it might have been a trick and our characters have no idea what those things are.
And yes I try to give story for anything that the players allow to have story. I hope I come up with some good motivation for these players to go through the whole adventure but I doubt I will find the opportunity without railroading them. I really prefer giving the players highways with exits.
A knowledge check on the drow would show that they force slaves to fight for them*, and a sense motive would have helped determine if the slaves were being truthful. Not choosing to use a skill or not putting ranks in a skill is no excuse. I am not advocating taking every monster prisoner either. I am just pointing out that if they want to not kill potential victims there are ways to do so.
*assuming your drow act like the 3.5 drow. Even if they don't the sense motive should have been enough if the players really did not want to kill them.
The money makes a good motivator for those it holds sway over.
The other big one is Daramid's appealing to their sense of justice. She, a respected court justice, has reservations about the creature's guilt. That should be enough to at least make them wonder. Have her approach from the angle that every sentient thing deserves a fair trial and that the law shouldn't be suspended just because the accused is big and ugly. To accept the crimes at face value without even trying to investigate would be a mockery of justice.
That should spur lawful PCs into at least a token investaigation that, as they begin to find clues, should point to something darker that they will naturally follow up on.
Another part is when they're led downstairs to meet the creature itself. Once the creature opens up they may think a little different when it tells them of how it carried the Hergstag girl's body back while crying or when it may recite a bit of Taldan poetry (from the book it found). This may devalue its monster status and turn the "it" into more of a "him".
The module does say you're supposed to play him up sympathetically. My understanding is that while he has the intelligence of a fully grown man, he has the (relatively) undespoiled innocence of a child. Though he can go beserk in combat he isn't particularly crazy and he isn't mentally defunct.
He just has a lack of life experience and doesn't understand most things... despite having six class levels :P
Spot. On.
Rich
Blast, I just had a post eaten.
It might pop out of the ether again, but my basic take Laurence was that it might be cool to have Damarind as suspicious of the PCs as the PCs are of the beast but having no choice but to hire them - since they have history with the local situation.
Making her openly doubt the PC's morals might be a good way to get your players to think a little more out of the box, and if the PCs impress her she will be very blunt in telling them so, reminding herself never to trust first appearances.
Rich
Now that explains things, a viscious bag of devouring has swallowed it - huzzah!!
If ever there was an adventure for mnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar moments this is it Gorbacz.
Rich
I'm thinking a bride of Lepidstadt made out of the best pieces of Jessica Alba, Megan Fox, and Billie Piper; my players is always getting conned by cute dames.
or when it may recite a bit of Taldan poetry (from the book it found).
Oh. Speaking of Taldan poetry, anyone have any good suggestions? I am not a poet in any way, shape or form. I've been trying to nail the voice for this character and having something good and thematic to recite would be great.
Here's a little something I recently wrote on the subject of inspiration itself. Just a little something I plan on him reciting if it becomes relevant, especially if he becomes aware that they aren't sure what to do next.
All of us but mortal men
Struggling to anchor the divine pen
Affixed to our brows, oh fleeting grace!
‘Til it deigns to leave us again.
Just enough to display his higher capacity while being forlorn and terse enough :P
Though he can go beserk in combat he isn't particularly crazy and he isn't mentally defunct.
I see they decided not to go with Ms. Normal's brain in this case.
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Wondering if other GMs have considered erecting sign posts for the players as they enter trial of the beast. Something along the lines of "pay attention."
The adventure is skill rich, but more over it rewards players thinking through their problems, and I love this about the adventure, but especially since they aren't necessarily used to this style of game (not to this extreme) I think it is going to tax everyone, including my own GMing skill.
So I was thinking about taking them aside (some time around when they meet the beasts defender) GM to players, not narrator to characters, and say "this is different, you need to pay attention, and track what you learn, as you will have to present your arguments to the court, and support your arguments with evidence (or testimony.)
Especially given our play schedule of 1/2 weeks averaging 4-6 games per module, I'm going to encourage them to keep a note book that is organized.
I rarely feel obliged or allowed to suggest how the players should play, but I'm feeling that this metagaming might not only be appropriate, but long term better for everyone's enjoyment.
Thoughts?
All of that can be said in character. I can easily see Darmaid or Kaple recommending they pay attention and take notes since they are building a case, after all. However, if you think they won't get the message unless you specifically tell them then go for it.
Better to break the 4th wall a little and make sure everyone is on the same page then have them squat and lay a brick on the witness stand later.
Look up medieval poetry and you'll find lots that the players will probably not know or recognize. You may need to find translations due to the language and spelling has changed a lot over the centuries but it's worth doing a search.
I played up the tragic gentle giant angle when the party met the Beast. He tugged at their heart strings enough to where there was a marked difference in the investment of the players who were present and the player who missed the session. Probably wouldn't work on the murder hobos the OP described, but I'd recommend it for most people.