How do spontaneous casters get their spell per day back?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Will resting for 8 hours work? Or is it strictly per 24 hours?


Yes, you need to rest for 8 hours and then you get your spells back. However, you can not regain your spells more than once per 24 hours by resting.


Ellington wrote:
Yes, you need to rest for 8 hours and then you get your spells back. However, you can not regain your spells more than once per 24 hours by resting.

Yes that is correct for arcane spontaneous casters.

Divine spontaneous casters on the other hand don't require an 8 hour sleep but instead must pray/meditate at a specific part of the day.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
leo1925 wrote:

Yes that is correct for arcane spontaneous casters.

Divine spontaneous casters on the other hand don't require an 8 hour sleep but instead must pray/meditate at a specific part of the day.

With no more than one per 24-hour period, if you're doing world-striding or plane-hopping.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

You can't rest more than once in the same 24 hour day to get spells back? I was not aware of that. Is that just with Sorcerers, or spellcasters in general?

Can someone please post a source on that? Not that I doubt it, I would just like to see the ruling on it to show my GM, as he has let us do so before.


Hobbun wrote:

You can't rest more than once in the same 24 hour day to get spells back? I was not aware of that. Is that just with Sorcerers, or spellcasters in general?

Can someone please post a source on that? Not that I doubt it, I would just like to see the ruling on it to show my GM, as he has let us do so before.

I don't think there is a source on that. It's not in the chapter on regaining spells in the PRD, at least.

The major limitation is that any spells you've cast in the past eight hours count against your daily limit. I think that's what's supposed to keep you from just resting all the time.

Shadow Lodge

"Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day."

Second paragraph of the spells section.


I believe that the last few replies may have been mislead. A re-reading of the rules supports this.

While pathfinder often refers to "days" and "daily limits" there is nothing denoting that this means spells can only be prepared once every 24 hours. Please look at the following quotations:

PRD - Magic - Arcane Spells - Sorcerers and Bards wrote:


Daily Readying of Spells

Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies her mind to cast her daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh herself, the character does not regain the spell slots she used up the day before.

Recent Casting Limit

Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit.

What I can discern from this is that, if you rest for 8 hours you can prepare your spells again. As spells cast before this period (before you rest) no longer count towards your daily limit.

Why would they (Paizo) add this clause if spells could only be cast only once per 24 hours?

I reason this because there is nothing that states you cannot rest more than one time per day. This is unlike divine spellcasters that must specify a very specific time of day that they pray at to regain their divine power.


Stynkk wrote:

I believe that the last few replies may have been mislead. A re-reading of the rules supports this.

While pathfinder often refers to "days" and "daily limits" there is nothing denoting that this means spells can only be prepared once every 24 hours. Please look at the following quotations:

PRD - Magic - Arcane Spells - Sorcerers and Bards wrote:


Daily Readying of Spells

Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies her mind to cast her daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh herself, the character does not regain the spell slots she used up the day before.

Recent Casting Limit

Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit.

What I can discern from this is that, if you rest for 8 hours you can prepare your spells again. As spells cast before this period (before you rest) no longer count towards your daily limit.

Why would they (Paizo) add this clause if spells could only be cast only once per 24 hours?

I reason this because there is nothing that states you cannot rest more than one time per day. This is unlike divine spellcasters that must specify a very specific time of day that they pray at to regain their divine power.

*emphasis mine*

The term day or daily appears numerous times in reference to spells. No where, not even once or a little bit does the RAW even IMPLY you can prep spells more than once per day. It frequently implies the opposite.

The recent casting limit is in place to prevent a caster from waking up casting his full compliment of spells (saved from the previous day), and immediately prepping spells again.


Quantum Steve wrote:

The term day or daily appears numerous times in reference to spells. No where, not even once or a little bit does the RAW even IMPLY you can prep spells more than once per day. It frequently implies the opposite.

The recent casting limit is in place to prevent a caster from waking up casting his full compliment of spells (saved from the previous day), and immediately prepping spells again.

I think you are interpreting this rule for game balancing issues and you may be quite correct about the buffing prevention, however, the rules clearly state:

PRD - Magic - Arcane Spells - Preparing Wizard Spells wrote:


Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions

If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit.

PRD - Magic - Arcane Spells - Sorcerers and Bards wrote:


Recent Casting Limit

Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit

PRD - Magic - Divine Spells - Preparing Divine Spells wrote:


Recent Casting Limit

As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared.

If these spells count against the daily limit, it is logical to assume that spells cast longer than 8 hours ago do not count against the limit.

This means, to me only I suppose, that if there are no spells counting against the daily limit of the characters then casters may ready their spells again (as they are no longer tagged as having used their spell slots today because they have reset after 8 hours).

I do admit this creates a disparity between divine and arcane spellcasters, due to the fact that divine spellcasters are limited by a once per day temporal occurance, but this is what is written in the rules.


Stynkk wrote:
Quantum Steve wrote:

The term day or daily appears numerous times in reference to spells. No where, not even once or a little bit does the RAW even IMPLY you can prep spells more than once per day. It frequently implies the opposite.

The recent casting limit is in place to prevent a caster from waking up casting his full compliment of spells (saved from the previous day), and immediately prepping spells again.

I think you are interpreting this rule for game balancing issues and you may be quite correct about the buffing prevention, however, the rules clearly state:

PRD - Magic - Arcane Spells - Sorcerers and Bards wrote:


Recent Casting Limit

Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit

If these spells count against the daily limit, it is logical to assume that spells cast longer than 8 hours ago do not count against the limit.

This means, to me only I suppose, that if there are no spells counting against the daily limit of the characters then casters may ready their spells again (as they are no longer tagged as having used their spell slots today because they have reset after 8 hours).

I do admit this creates a disparity between divine and arcane spellcasters, but this is what is written in the rules.

The game assumes you have 8 hours of downtime also. That is when you do things like study and improved yourself which is how you level up. It also includes things like crafting.

Basically it is like this:
8 hours of adventuring
8 hours of downtime(practice sword fighting, casting spells, crafting an so on)
8 hours of rest.


wraithstrike wrote:
The game assumes you have 8 hours of downtime also.

Yes, this is assumed, but is not always the case and will vary according to the situation of each individual game. However, your daily breakdown of time during gameplay is definitely the ideal situation.


Hobbun wrote:
You can't rest more than once in the same 24 hour day to get spells back? I was not aware of that. Is that just with Sorcerers, or spellcasters in general?

We're playing in a game right now where we've homebrewed it so you need 1 hour or rest/sleep per level of spell you're trying to get back, with no "per day" limits, and it works fine. Works great actually. Much better than the core rules.


Ellington wrote:
Yes, you need to rest for 8 hours and then you get your spells back. However, you can not regain your spells more than once per 24 hours by resting.

Ellington is correct.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You can prepare your spells as many times per day as you want, provided you leave spell slots open for it. If you are looking for a complete reset, you only get that once per day (24 hours). If that wasn't the case, than the ring of sustenance would be the favored item of every spellcaster everywhere (since you could gain back all your spells with two hours of rest as many times as you wanted).

That obviously isn't the case.

As written, you reset your daily spells once per day (hence the term "daily spells") and even with a ring of sustenance and 2 hours of rest, you cannot refill slots that were used within the last 8 hours.


Ravingdork wrote:
As written, you reset your daily spells once per day (hence the term "daily spells") and even with a ring of sustenance and 2 hours of rest, you cannot refill slots that were used within the last 8 hours.

So, the Ring of Sustenance is the clarification point. Even though the heavy handed placement of the word "day" abounds in the rules concerning spell preparation, the constant mentioning of 8 hours and not counting towards spell limits threw a lot of doubt on what exactly they were referring to (in my mind). So thanks for that.

Although, I'm not sure I agree with the preparing once per 24 hours, that is the rule.

So a barbarian can regain his rage rounds twice a day (assuming two rest periods for this experiment), but a spellcaster is up the creek.


Stynkk wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
The game assumes you have 8 hours of downtime also.
Yes, this is assumed, but is not always the case and will vary according to the situation of each individual game. However, your daily breakdown of time during gameplay is definitely the ideal situation.

If we know that is the intent then trying to get around it is just gaming the system. Most DM's won't allow you to get around intent. I think the OP wanted to know the RAI. I am too lazy to argue if RAW allows it or since I know intent.


wraithstrike wrote:
If we know that is the intent then trying to get around it is just gaming the system. Most DM's won't allow you to get around intent. I think the OP wanted to know the RAI. I am too lazy to argue if RAW allows it or since I know intent.

However, if your game is a dungeon crawl or life in the dungeon, then the intent of the rule won't make sense to you as you'd be spending 24 hours in danger.

It's intent vs functionality and the readings (I thought) accounted for greater flexibility in the ruleset. I don't care about gaming the system, I'd just like to know the system. IMO the 8 hours not counting against the daily casting limit wordings are not necessary and add confusion.

If you're worried about waking up with spells and casting them and prepping more you should just say... if you already have spells prepared in spellslots for a day you can't use them to prepare more. And if you're spontaneous these count towards your spells for today. Which should be evident, but so should a lot of things.

Shadow Lodge

I'm not sure how the word "Day" or "Daily" are vague at all. They are pretty clearly defined terms. I'm not sure why people think game terms are given random new meanings as soon as you start playing a game. The 8 hour limits mean exactly what they say, they are limits *in addition* to the daily limits.

So you cannot start you adventuring day at 11pm, burn through one days worth of spells before midnight then use your next days allocation of spells from midnight for the rest of the day.


So you don't find it even a tad bit confusing that it states (quite clearly) that only the spells you cast within the last 8 hours count against your daily limit?

Shadow Lodge

Stynkk wrote:
So you don't find it even a tad bit confusing that it states (quite clearly) that only the spells you cast within the last 8 hours count against your daily limit?

Did you reply before I edited and added that last paragraphs to my previous post or just not read it?

No, I don't find it confusing at all.

Scarab Sages

An adventurer's day is divided up into 8 hour segments. 8 hours for resting, 8 for adventuring, and 8 for making/breaking camp and resting.

If you look at the section on overland movement - forced march on page 171 of the CRB, you'll see this breakdown.

Let's look at how the 8 hour casting limit prevents extra spells/day.

If you weren't limited by the 8 hour casting limit, you could rest, then go cast your retained spells from the previous day, then prepare your new spells and cast them.

The 8 hour limit is a necessary element to prevent characters from "gaming" the system for extra spells during the adventuring portion of the day. It adds weight to preparing spells in the morning, and even though a nighttime ambush can occasionally interfere with preparation, it's a better solution than allowing two full days worth of castings during one adventuring day.


Stynkk wrote:


If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit.

Kinda funny how you skipped right over, "When he prepares spells for the coming day ..."

Preparing spells, whenever they are prepared, are your spells for the entire day.


Ring of Sustenance:

This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.


0gre wrote:

Did you reply before I edited and added that last paragraphs to my previous post or just not read it?

No, I don't find it confusing at all.

I read it, but let's think... you've been adventuring for one hour.. you are not starting a new day from your relative standpoint and I hope the DM would have something to say... I see you're not listening to what I'm talking about.

0gre wrote:
Preparing spells, whenever they are prepared, are your spells for the entire day.

I see you guys just aren't getting the point, so I'll do my best to be more expicit.

You prepare X spells for the day right? Right.
You cast spells, you do your thing, you have fun. Right? Right.
8 hours rolls around, you've been adventuring. Right? Right.
So now all the spells/actions you took don't count towards your daily spell limit or alottment. This is a bigger loophole than the one you are worried about because now you can make the argument you can now prepare your spells again because you have no spells counting against you for the day and no spell slots that were "used".

If you now have all your spell slots available (since no spells are counting against them) you can prepare more right? Right.

Why emphasize daily limits so much, if after 8 hours you don't have any more?

Not that I don't appreciate all the snark, but there's nothing quite like a discussion on the internet.

@magicdealer

That's pretty cool, hadn't seen the table here on Forced March. Good for temporal tracking and time management stuff. Basically 8 hours of work/exertion.

However, I find the 8 hour limit a bit lacking as it is written in the rules. Again.. I'd favor if the spell slot is in use when you begin the day you can't prepare a new one (even if you have not meditated). But, I guess it's just me. I don't seem to "get it".

@davik

yep, saw the ring, the discussion has moved on from that part, but thanks for catching it too. Seems strange the only place we have for definitive clarification is a magic ring.


Stynkk wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
If we know that is the intent then trying to get around it is just gaming the system. Most DM's won't allow you to get around intent. I think the OP wanted to know the RAI. I am too lazy to argue if RAW allows it or since I know intent.

However, if your game is a dungeon crawl or life in the dungeon, then the intent of the rule won't make sense to you as you'd be spending 24 hours in danger.

It's intent vs functionality and the readings (I thought) accounted for greater flexibility in the ruleset. I don't care about gaming the system, I'd just like to know the system. IMO the 8 hours not counting against the daily casting limit wordings are not necessary and add confusion.

If you're worried about waking up with spells and casting them and prepping more you should just say... if you already have spells prepared in spellslots for a day you can't use them to prepare more. And if you're spontaneous these count towards your spells for today. Which should be evident, but so should a lot of things.

Then I would adventure for as long as I could then rest as needed, but I still would not expect for my DM to allow spells more than once per day. The DM can roll a random encounter for those other hours or just handwave them to say nothing happened.


Stynkk wrote:
I see you guys just aren't getting the point, so I'll do my best to be more expicit.

We see your point. This is not a new debate. I just don't think the intent was to regain spells more than once per day. Clerics as an example are limited to getting their spells back at a certain time of day. I normally handwave that to any time per day, but still no more than once per day.


wraithstrike wrote:
This is not a new debate. I just don't think the intent was to regain spells more than once per day. Clerics as an example are limited to getting their spells back at a certain time of day. I normally handwave that to any time per day, but still no more than once per day.

I applaud you on the Cleric/Divine restriction, I agree there. However, the language of the 8 hour bit is a bit troublesome to the easily confused (such as myself).

Scarab Sages

Well, let's just lay it down flat out then.

Sorcerer page 71 CRB. Subsection spells.

"Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on table 3-14. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score."

It's right there.

"can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day."
"spell allotment is given on table 3-14"
"bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score."

Ignore for a moment how often you can prepare spells. According to this, you have your flat cap on how many you can cast each day. Table plus bonus.

Adding in the preparing spells stuff, you get rules about which spells count as expended when preparing new spells. Preparing and casting are two different things. It might sound silly to think about having spells prepared that you can't cast because you've already cast your limit of first, second, and third level spells for the day, but there it is.


Magicdealer wrote:
Ignore for a moment how often you can prepare spells. According to this, you have your flat cap on how many you can cast each day. Table plus bonus.

However, without the Ring of Sustenance's clarification (which is a tad obscure), the reading in the spell section states that spells cast longer than 8 hours ago "do not count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit". If they don't count then I'm not seeing why you can't prepare them again (I do now, but just sayin).


Stynkk wrote:
However, without the Ring of Sustenance's clarification (which is a tad obscure), the reading in the spell section states that spells cast longer than 8 hours ago "do not count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit". If they don't count then I'm not seeing why you can't prepare them again (I do now, but just sayin).

That entire section is in relation to the preparation of a spontaneous arcane caster's daily spells following 8 hours of rest. That is the only time that ruling is relevant.

It is stating that any spells cast during the 8 hours of "rest" are included in that character's spell allotment for the new day.


Heaven's Agent wrote:
It is stating that any spells cast during the 8 hours of "rest" are included in that character's spell allotment for the new day.

This makes sense, and is possible. However, it is broken to a new section away from that part to which you are referring. It does not appear to be a sub-heading of the section, rather it is just another bullet point. Although what you are saying does make a lot of sense and likely the way the rules were intended to be read.

Scarab Sages

Hmm...

under preparing wizard spells, recent casting limit/rest interruptions, I see "when he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit."

Under the sorcerer's recent casting limit I see, "Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit.

I can't seem to find the line that reads, "spells cast longer than 8 hours ago do not count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit." as you quoted.

It's an important distinction. The way you worded the line implies a whole different bag than what the line itself is saying. Reading it as you worded it does imply that every 8 hours the spells reset. However, that is NOT what the line says.

The line about spells cast within 8 hours is talking about spells from yesterdays memorization that were cast within 8 hours of preparing a new days spells.

If we go to the wizards section, we can see that the section there, recent casting limit/rest interruptions, is much more detailed. The wizard section talks about it more in depth, while the sorcerer section summarizes it.

From the wizard section:
"When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit."

Nothing there implies that spells cast longer than 8 hours ago don't apply to the limit normally.


Magicdealer wrote:

Hmm...

under preparing wizard spells, recent casting limit/rest interruptions, I see "when he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit."

Under the sorcerer's recent casting limit I see, "Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit.

If you think about what you stated above, why would they write "Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit". That is apparent. The only reason that they would state this as an outright fact would be because spells cast longer than 8 hours ago do not count.

If this was not true and not the way the spell section was meant to be read, wouldn't they say spells cast within the last 24 hours count against the daily limit?


Stynkk wrote:


If this was not true and not the way the spell section was meant to be read, wouldn't they say spells cast within the last 24 hours count against the daily limit?

That would make sense, but it won't be a surprise for not writing things as intended. The vital strike feat is a good example of that.


wraithstrike wrote:
That would make sense, but it won't be a surprise for not writing things as intended. The vital strike feat is a good example of that.

Yes! See! I know how it is supposed to work, but this is what it says! I really don't want to stir the pot, I just want to adhere to what the rules say.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

If it said 'spells cast within the last 24 hours count against your daily limit' then you would never be able to prepare all your spells again without waiting 24 hours from the last time you cast a spell.

Shadow Lodge

Stynkk wrote:
Not that I don't appreciate all the snark, but there's nothing quite like a discussion on the internet.

It's not snark.

Personally, I run the rules in the way that is the most obvious because that's generally what the game designers intended.

So Spells per Day means... the number of spells of a given level you can cast per day.

If you keep it simple it's hard to screw it up.

Honestly there should be a forum for people who want to lawyer around the rules so people who want to ask honest questions can get simple answers. And people who want to screw with loopholes can screw with loopholes with people who like doing that.


wraithstrike wrote:

The game assumes you have 8 hours of downtime also. That is when you do things like study and improved yourself which is how you level up. It also includes things like crafting.

Basically it is like this:
8 hours of adventuring
8 hours of downtime(practice sword fighting, casting spells, crafting an so on)
8 hours of rest.

Didn't know that was really assumed in the rules.

Can you tell me where that can be found?

The problem I'm having is when people don't follow that planning. What if characters want to adventure longer then 8 hours. IIRC, there is a fortitude safe for day marches longer then 8 hours so one could use that. Though what if someone wants to rest less then 8 hours.

That can't be healthy if you do it more then once in succession. Forinstance, when one of the characters want to spy on the orc camp to make sure they don't attack over night or want to increase his crafting time (if you spend 24 hours crafting, you can cut the time in 3 following the planning). And what if that character then wants to sleep over day rather then over night (meaning they might not get sleep).

Guess I most have missed that part when I read most of the core rules and I can't seem to find where it is.


Karel Gheysens wrote:

Forinstance, when one of the characters want to spy on the orc camp to make sure they don't attack over night or want to increase his crafting time (if you spend 24 hours crafting, you can cut the time in 3 following the planning). And what if that character then wants to sleep over day rather then over night (meaning they might not get sleep).

I'm fairly certain you can't craft for 24 hours a day. I'll get back to you. And I realize such a regimented daily plan isnt usually followed.

Shadow Lodge

wraithstrike wrote:
assumes
Karel Gheysens wrote:
Can you tell me where that can be found?

Maybe you mean to rephrase this question?

If it's assumed it won't be 'found' anywhere because... it's assumed.


0gre wrote:
If it's assumed it won't be 'found' anywhere because... it's assumed.

Wow.. stop assuming and help the guy out.

Here's your answer:

PRD - Magic Items - Magic Item Creation wrote:


The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).

Although this is not specifically referenced in the Craft section, I too will assume and say this would apply (in a general sense) to crafting.


Karel Gheysens wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

The game assumes you have 8 hours of downtime also. That is when you do things like study and improved yourself which is how you level up. It also includes things like crafting.

Basically it is like this:
8 hours of adventuring
8 hours of downtime(practice sword fighting, casting spells, crafting an so on)
8 hours of rest.

Didn't know that was really assumed in the rules.

Can you tell me where that can be found?

The problem I'm having is when people don't follow that planning. What if characters want to adventure longer then 8 hours. IIRC, there is a fortitude safe for day marches longer then 8 hours so one could use that. Though what if someone wants to rest less then 8 hours.

That can't be healthy if you do it more then once in succession. Forinstance, when one of the characters want to spy on the orc camp to make sure they don't attack over night or want to increase his crafting time (if you spend 24 hours crafting, you can cut the time in 3 following the planning). And what if that character then wants to sleep over day rather then over night (meaning they might not get sleep).

Guess I most have missed that part when I read most of the core rules and I can't seem to find where it is.

It is really from 3.5 that I know this. We know that resting is 8 hours. We know that crafting which is done during downtime takes 8 hours per the rules, generally speaking. It is assumed the other 8 hours is adventuring time. It is better explained I think, in the 3.5 DMG.

Scarab Sages

Stynkk wrote:


If you think about what you stated above, why would they write "Any spells cast within the last 8 hours count against the sorcerer's or bard's daily limit". That is apparent. The only reason that they would state this as an outright fact would be because spells cast longer than 8 hours ago do not count.

If this was not true and not the way the spell section was meant to be read, wouldn't they say spells cast within the last 24 hours count against the daily limit?

If you think about what I stated above, you would note the same section in the wizards spellcasting elaborates and clarifies it. The sorcerer/bard section, appearing after the wizard section, merely got a summery. Refer to the wizards section.

And again, you're trying to read more than what is there. The line is specific about spells cast within the last 8 hours. If it's NOT specific about what happens otherwise, that could just as easily mean that there are other factors that come into play so they can't give a broad statement. So if you're worried about what the rules say, then don't rephrase them to fit what you want them to say.

Karel, look in the overland movement - forced march section. That's about as clear as it gets.


Stynkk wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
That would make sense, but it won't be a surprise for not writing things as intended. The vital strike feat is a good example of that.
Yes! See! I know how it is supposed to work, but this is what it says! I really don't want to stir the pot, I just want to adhere to what the rules say.

I understand, but what the rules say and what they mean or not often the same thing.

My second accidental rhyme of the day. :)


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So let me get this straight.

Ruinous, the sage (Wizard 2) wakes up one morning at 0600, prepares his spells (Magic missile, Magic missile Colour spray and grease).
Has a heary breakfast in the Shadow wilds with the crew, decamps and continues adventuring by 0700. His 4 spells are ready and are set for the next 24 hours, one day, and can be reset at 0600.

Add some orcs, a goblin riding an octopus and a top heavy ogrekin Dhampir and he's done for the day (with one silly little grease spell remaining). The party camps outside the dangerous Dungeon of deadly danger for the night (oooohh lets say 2200hrs). 8 Hours later he can prepare his 4 spells again becuase:

A) it's a new day
B) he's had 8 hours without casting spells (IE He slept)

Say the fights went really well, and they cleared the DDoDD early and camped at 2000hrs. He wakes up 8 hours later (0400hrs).

It's not a new day. 24 hours have not passed. He basically has one spell left (The grease spell he prepared earlier). Bored, he makes an early breakfast. He'll prepare spells on the road.

Or

Feeling Impish, he casts Grease on His fighter1/Barbarian1 compainion and yells out 'FIRE' and watches the mayhem.

Out of spells now, when 0600 rolls around (and he's recovered a little from the thrashing) he prepares again, but the Grease spell counts against his limit becuase he cast it less than 8 hours ago.

Do these look about right?

Batts


Iczer wrote:

So let me get this straight.

Ruinous, the sage (Wizard 2) wakes up one morning at 0600, prepares his spells (Magic missile, Magic missile Colour spray and grease).
Has a heary breakfast in the Shadow wilds with the crew, decamps and continues adventuring by 0700. His 4 spells are ready and are set for the next 24 hours, one day, and can be reset at 0600.

Add some orcs, a goblin riding an octopus and a top heavy ogrekin Dhampir and he's done for the day (with one silly little grease spell remaining). The party camps outside the dangerous Dungeon of deadly danger for the night (oooohh lets say 2200hrs). 8 Hours later he can prepare his 4 spells again becuase:

A) it's a new day
B) he's had 8 hours without casting spells (IE He slept)

Say the fights went really well, and they cleared the DDoDD early and camped at 2000hrs. He wakes up 8 hours later (0400hrs).

It's not a new day. 24 hours have not passed. He basically has one spell left (The grease spell he prepared earlier). Bored, he makes an early breakfast. He'll prepare spells on the road.

Or

Feeling Impish, he casts Grease on His fighter1/Barbarian1 compainion and yells out 'FIRE' and watches the mayhem.

Out of spells now, when 0600 rolls around (and he's recovered a little from the thrashing) he prepares again, but the Grease spell counts against his limit becuase he cast it less than 8 hours ago.

Do these look about right?

Batts

That is correct.


Iczer wrote:


Do these look about right?

Batts

Yes, they look fine... however I must note you have a Wizard example in a clearly sorcerer focused thread :)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Interesting, we’ve been doing it wrong along.

What my GM has allowed is as long as we rest for 8 hours, we get our spells back. Whether it’s been divine or arcane casters.

Granted, it’s not something that has come up that often, maybe a handful of times within the many years we’ve played, but it has happened.

And I’m sure it’s not something our GM has seen and made changes to (homebrewed), just a misunderstanding of the rules.

I will have to point this out to him. Thanks.

Shadow Lodge

Iczer wrote:

His 4 spells are ready and are set for the next 24 hours, one day, and can be reset at 0600....

Say the fights went really well, and they cleared the DDoDD early and camped at 2000hrs. He wakes up 8 hours later (0400hrs).

...

The whole 'daily' thing is deliberately a little vague so there is some flexibility. Since it's 'daily' you could conceivably prep them at 0400 because that's the next day (though clerics have a specific reset time). For most groups the spells reset during that 8 hour 'rest' period and whenever you wake up you prep. So you'd have spells at 0400. Otherwise the time you prep would slowly creep later and later in the day as various things delayed prepping.

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