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Hello,
I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on my proposed Rogue build. I have read multiple post in this message board, which have all been very helpful, and I would like to see what everyone thinks of my feat path for this character.
First of all, my character:
Human Rogue-1st Lvl.
Str: 12
Dex: 19
Con: 17
Int: 9
Wis: 12
Cha: 6-Unfortunate farming accident :)
Feats:
1-TWF & Dodge
2-Finese Rogue
3-Improved Iniative
4-Weapon Training-Short Swords
5-Toughness
6-Resilancy
7-Radid Reload-My plan is to wield two hand crossbows. If I can catch enemies flatfooted, I can shoot both hand crossbows, drop one (free action), and reload the other (free action) and shoot it-only works beginning at 8th lvl. Theory being I can get 3 ranged sneak attacks (1st round), then move and draw my short swords in the second round-hopefully I will be able to tumble and attack with a follow-up sneak attack.
8-Combat Trick (Improved Two Weapon Fighting)
9-Iron Will
10-Opportunist
11-Defensive Combat Training
12-Crippling Strike
13-?*
14-Fast Stealth
15-Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16-Improved Evasion
17-?*
18-Dispelling Attack
19-?*
20-?*
*I am still debating what to put in these feat slots.
Any words of advice/criticism on this proposed build would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
7-Radid Reload-My plan is to wield two hand crossbows. If I can catch enemies flatfooted, I can shoot both hand crossbows, drop one (free action), and reload the other (free action) and shoot it-only works beginning at 8th lvl. Theory being I can get 3 ranged sneak attacks (1st round), then move and draw my short swords in the second round-hopefully I will be able to tumble and attack with a follow-up sneak attack.
You only get one action in a surprise round so you only get one shot. I am assuming that is how you plan to catch them flat-footed. I would drop the dex down and bring strength up a little. You get more damage that way.
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Fist of all, thank you for replying. Second, with a high Dex. bonus and Imrpoved Iniative, I plan to catch enemies flat footed on the first round. Therefore, in the following non-surprise round, I will go first I will be able to accomplish the 3 shots with my hand crossbows. I know that I won't be able to do this all the time, but if it works, it might be highly effective.
However, since I am still familiarizing myself with Pathfinder, I could be wrong in this idea.
Thanks.
You will want Shadow Strike, so that you can sneak attack creatures with concealment.
I don't think that you need to boost strength. Rogues don't do damage from strength; they do it from sneak attack dice. I just finished a game with a strength 10 halfing rogue. Unless the paladin was smiting, he often had the highest damage output, doing a full 1d4+0 before magic and sneak attack.
A +2 to strength gives you +1 or +0.5 damage per hit (depending on if it is the off-hand or not.) If you hit with half of your attacks, that is an average of +0.375 damage per attack. (Slightly more if you get an extra attack with your main hand from haste or something similar.)
A +2 to dex gives an additional 5% x (average damage) every time you swing on average since it drops the roll you need to hit by one. Once your average damage is 7.5 or higher (e.g., 1d6 (short sword) + 1d6 (sneak) + 1 (str)), you are getting more damage from boosting dex than strength.
Fist of all, thank you for replying. Second, with a high Dex. bonus and Imrpoved Iniative, I plan to catch enemies flat footed on the first round. Therefore, in the following non-surprise round, I will go first I will be able to accomplish the 3 shots with my hand crossbows. I know that I won't be able to do this all the time, but if it works, it might be highly effective.
However, since I am still familiarizing myself with Pathfinder, I could be wrong in this idea.
Thanks.
The likelihood of you both rolling high on initiative and being within 30 feet of the opponent is something I've discovered is extremely, extremely low.
Str: 12
Dex: 19
Con: 17
Int: 9 Dumping Int because you have a high amount of skills is like a Barb dumping Con because he has a high hit die. Don't dump Int. Skills are what a rogue is a viking at.
Wis: 12
Cha: 6-Unfortunate farming accident :)
Did you roll stats? Jeez. A 6?
Feats:1-TWF & Dodge - Why dodge? Why not take Weapon Finesse?
2-Finese Rogue - Why waste a unique rogue class ability on +1 to AC?
3-Improved Initiative A decent choice.
4-Weapon Training-Short Swords Why waste a unique rogue class ability on +1 to hit?
5-Toughness
6-Resiliency Resiliency is a strong option if you plan on going unconscious pretty often. Do you plan on going unconscious pretty often? If not, don't even bother with resiliency. Just buy a vest of the cockroach from the APG for 16,000 gold when you start feeling like you're going unconscious at least once a session.
7-Radid Reload-My plan is to wield two hand crossbows. If I can catch enemies flatfooted, I can shoot both hand crossbows, drop one (free action), and reload the other (free action) and shoot it-only works beginning at 8th lvl. Theory being I can get 3 ranged sneak attacks (1st round), then move and draw my short swords in the second round-hopefully I will be able to tumble and attack with a follow-up sneak attack. This is a good plan until 1. The enemies are more than 35 feet away 2. The enemies have uncanny dodge 3. You lose initiative. 4. You do not participate in the surprise round. Also, by 8 you can shoot once in the surprise round, reload and shoot twice if you win init due to full attack. Don't be surprised when 2/5 times this plan doesn't work and actually sets you back because you need to drop your weapons and draw your short swords and get up there.
8-Combat Trick (Improved Two Weapon Fighting) Good choice.
9-Iron Will I don't know about taking Iron Will this late. Especially when you can get Combat Reflexes to support Opportunist. That way monster's can't bust out sure-fire non-feat-supported grapples, trips, sunders or bull rushes on you after you use opportunist and can't AoO them to stop them.
10-Opportunist Opportunist is murderous, but see Feat 7. If you want to use opportunist, don't always run around with the crossbows. A lot of combats at level 10 will be over by the time you get into flank.
11-Defensive Combat Training Decent, but consider that this gives you a +2 bonus to CMD.
12-Crippling Strike
13-?* Shadow Strike would probably be good for you, but much earlier. It lets you sneak attack through blur and dim light conditions. That is really useful if your party does dim light.
14-Fast Stealth Almost useless at this level. Monsters with epic perception will have epic battles with your epic stealth. Monsters with epic perception will always see the paladin who has no ranks in stealth and a 10 Dex. At this point, your stealth no longer matters.
15-Greater Two Weapon Fighting Fishing For Twenties the feat. Still, worthwhile if you like to fish for twenties.
16-Improved Evasion I like Improved Evasion. Statistically now though it sucks. You have a 29 Dex. That gives you a +19 Ref save with no cloak. Assuming you buy a nice one, +4, cool black trim, that gives you a +23. An ice linnorm's DC on their breath weapon is 28. Improved Evasion is marginal but there only for when you roll really low.
17-?*
18-Dispelling Attack You need the major magic and minor magic rogue talents to take dispelling attack.
19-?*
20-?*
I'd look in the APG for the rogue tricks and some feats. It'd help you round yourself out a bit more.
don't forget character traits, and for your strategy, there is one (reactionary) that gives you +2 to initiative
For more tips, you can always check out my guide to rogues here. IceTitan has a lot of good points about some of the details, so I won't rehash them.
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Thanks everyone for the good comments/advice. Btw, we are not using APG, but I appreciate the advice.
I will eliminate the hand crossbow idea and simply go with Short Swords. Also, I have already picked the 1st lvl feats (TWF & Dodge), but any alternative path for feats would be appreciated. Also, believe it or not, Dodge has saved me 4 times already from being hit at first level. I think it might be worth it.
Lastly, great guide Rogue Eidolon.
Thanks again everyone.
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IMO you'll be bored of that dual-weapon character before 4th level.
Start with bonus-providing INT and CHA, and have fun BSing your way through social encounters.
Taking those same stats (I'm assuming they were rolled and recorded, and you can't change them other than racial mod), I'd arrange....
STR: 6
DEX: 19
CON: 9
INT: 12 or 17 (I like higher CHA)
WIS: 12
CHA: 17 or 12
Tactics: crossbow is your primary weapon, mithral chainshirt your primary armor. Buy a headband of intellect at first opportunity to qualify for Combat Expertise, because you never want to be in melee with Power Attacking two-handers or grapple monsters (you will Dodge/Mobility/Expertise your way out of those jams with a +10 to AC while withdrawing through threatened squares).
It may be stereotyping, but halfling is so massively synergistic to rogue that it's arguably suboptimal not to play one. (Just make sure he doesn't neglect his Escape Artist so he can slither out of Swallow Whole attempts.)
Dealing with your fugly saving-throws: multiclass two or four levels in cleric of some sneakmeister neutral god.
IMO you'll be bored of that dual-weapon character before 4th level.
Start with bonus-providing INT and CHA, and have fun BSing your way through social encounters.
I'd be bored with that by the time I can do nothing but pick locks and use Diplomacy in non-existent social situations.
PS. Combat Expertise is TERRIBLE in Pathfinder. It's limited similarly to Power Attack thus making it practically useless for classes without full BAB (and therefore practically useless completely)
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I'd be bored with that by the time I can do nothing but pick locks and use Diplomacy in non-existent social situations.IMO you'll be bored of that dual-weapon character before 4th level.
Start with bonus-providing INT and CHA, and have fun BSing your way through social encounters.
Archery feats + Rapid Reload + light crossbow from 30' away? With Pathfinder's faster feat progression, this is easy.
And: why are your campaign's social situations "non-existent"?
RP is two-thirds of RPG.
PS. Combat Expertise is TERRIBLE in Pathfinder. It's limited similarly to Power Attack thus making it practically useless for classes without full BAB (and therefore practically useless completely)
No; it's just not sickeningly broke like it was in 3.5, where it permitted you to sleaze a 30+ AC at 6th or 7th level in conjunction with Mobility. Now you can only half-sleaze a ~27 or 28 AC doing it. At high level, they're the same.