The starting locations in certain AP's...


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


Really bother me. Specifically the ones that take place in small, remote locations far away form civilization. Rise of the Rune Lords, King Maker, and now Carrion Crown begin in these back woods areas.

I complain because I notice a trend when this happens: we kill bad guys, advance the plot, and gain levels, but are stuck with no way to get rid of the loot we have found! This results in characters several levels behind the recommended wealth charts because we can't use the majority of the junk we find, and we can't sell it to buy equipment we can actually use. And then you get into the logistics of how you are carting around 12 suits of masterwork armor/weapons, etc...


Sayer_of_Nay wrote:


Really bother me. Specifically the ones that take place in small, remote locations far away form civilization. Rise of the Rune Lords, King Maker, and now Carrion Crown begin in these back woods areas.

I complain because I notice a trend when this happens: we kill bad guys, advance the plot, and gain levels, but are stuck with no way to get rid of the loot we have found! This results in characters several levels behind the recommended wealth charts because we can't use the majority of the junk we find, and we can't sell it to buy equipment we can actually use. And then you get into the logistics of how you are carting around 12 suits of masterwork armor/weapons, etc...

Ravengro has a purchase limit of 5.000 GP, so there should be no problem getting rid of most items you are bount to find before the end of the module. The next module assumes you are going somewhere else.

Liberty's Edge

Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne are are actually worse around books 3 and 4 (in Runelords) and 4 and 5 (in CotCT) when you are spending lots and lots of time away from civilization.


Kingmaker specifically has Oleg's Trading Post, which slowly ramps up its trading capacity to keep pace with the group's loot and pruchasing needs, and can get things bought/sold through Restov with some delay.

By the time you start getting serious loot that strains Restov's ability to handle, you've hopefully built up your own cities to be able to take the trade.

Liberty's Edge

Legacy of Fire has this issue at several points, but it's thematically appropriate, clearly intentional, and debatably part of it's charm. I'm looking forward to it, anyway.

Of course, I'm GMing, not playing. :)


Sayer_of_Nay wrote:


Really bother me. Specifically the ones that take place in small, remote locations far away form civilization. Rise of the Rune Lords, King Maker, and now Carrion Crown begin in these back woods areas.

I complain because I notice a trend when this happens: we kill bad guys, advance the plot, and gain levels, but are stuck with no way to get rid of the loot we have found! This results in characters several levels behind the recommended wealth charts because we can't use the majority of the junk we find, and we can't sell it to buy equipment we can actually use. And then you get into the logistics of how you are carting around 12 suits of masterwork armor/weapons, etc...

Unless they are on a strict time table, there is no reason they can not stash the bulky stuff and come back for it later, with some horses or a cart.

Of course, once they start to acquire bags of holding this quickly becomes a non issue.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Another solution requires a willingness to tinker with the treasure a bit.

The Game Mastery Guide (page 105) suggests getting a "wishlist" of items that you could use to replace some of the similar items found in the adventure.

The idea is to reduce the "need" for the heroes to be able to buy/sell treaure, since much of it would be things that they will keep anyway.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:


Really bother me. Specifically the ones that take place in small, remote locations far away form civilization. Rise of the Rune Lords, King Maker, and now Carrion Crown begin in these back woods areas.

I complain because I notice a trend when this happens: we kill bad guys, advance the plot, and gain levels, but are stuck with no way to get rid of the loot we have found! This results in characters several levels behind the recommended wealth charts because we can't use the majority of the junk we find, and we can't sell it to buy equipment we can actually use. And then you get into the logistics of how you are carting around 12 suits of masterwork armor/weapons, etc...

Rise of the Runelords- Sandpoint is only a couple days travel from Magnimar (in fact, part of The Skinsaw Murders takes place in Magnimar); Hook Mountain Massacre is a remote location, but the PCs should hit 9th-10th level by the end of it, at which point access to teleport means easy travel to a metropolis.

Kingmaker- As mentioned, Oleg's trading post is meant to be developed during the course of the campaign; also, Restov is only a few days away (and the sandbox nature of Kingmaker means there's more "down time" for shopping trips); by the time you get access to teleport, your kingdom's capitol should be developed enough to let you buy and sell most level-appropriate items, anyway.

Carrion Crown- Ravengro is a small town with a purchase limit of 5,000 gp; the next adventure will take place in and around Lepidstadt (a city), so the opportunity for buying/selling items will increase with the PCs level.

None of these (except possibly Kingmaker, which was taken into account with the campaign design) is a "small, remote location far from civilization." If you are finding a problem, then maybe you are rushing things too much and not allowing enough "down time."


+1 to pretty much everything Dragonchess Player says.

On top of that, I really like not being able to walk into a store all the time and sell off all the loot. It's nice to have the question, "Which of this stuff are we going to take?" Even better is when we find something we previously had no use for and find a way to take advantage of it. I like that a lot better than getting whatever I want whenever I want it.

In my opinion, this isn't a part of the game enough.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Wander Weir wrote:

On top of that, I really like not being able to walk into a store all the time and sell off all the loot. It's nice to have the question, "Which of this stuff are we going to take?" Even better is when we find something we previously had no use for and find a way to take advantage of it. I like that a lot better than getting whatever I want whenever I want it.

In my opinion, this isn't a part of the game enough.

+1 to Wander Weir. I wish there was minimal shopping, and we had to rely on loot. It's more exciting that way (instead of the "same optimum build every time" syndrome), and less work. (I hate shopping for gear!)


As a caster I'm not bothered as much by "use what you find" but as a melee or physical ranged character it can be down right maddening.

You want full plate? sorry hasn't come up yet. You need a better sword? sorry, no baddies have had it. Want the wizard to make one? sorry don't have time to craft. The game encourages sword swingers and arrow chuckers to specialize in particular weapons and the lack of ability to actually *get them* is seriously hampering. Especially when all the full casters need is that headband of whatever +x to keep right on going. Heck they even get free spells as they level up. Sure, its neat to find that +3 keen Scythe.. except that the fighter has his feats in the Longsword and the ranger is arranged towards archery..

(not meant to be "casters are better!" just.. casters can more easily deal with "find what you find, you can't buy anything" type issues)

-S


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I do love treasure myself, particularly when I find a piece of loot that works perfectly for my character. I'm right at the end of Curse of the Crimson Throne, and half of the weapons I carry are ones I've gotten from my enemies. Helps that I took the hint and played a rapier fighter... oh, and that ring of evasion that pops up was probably one of my best investments. Took the full share of my treasure for that book, but totally worth it.

As for remote locations, when I'm DMing I usually say that if the party can show that they'll pay full for it, a merchant would be willing to travel to a larger city to make the trade. Add on that at 9th level, so by the end of book 3 of an AP, the party wizard will have access to Teleportation. That basically voids the whole issue. Just buy an illustrated guide to Absolam, and teleport to one of the cities landmarks. Done deal!

Liberty's Edge

Selgard wrote:

As a caster I'm not bothered as much by "use what you find" but as a melee or physical ranged character it can be down right maddening.

You want full plate? sorry hasn't come up yet. You need a better sword? sorry, no baddies have had it. Want the wizard to make one? sorry don't have time to craft. The game encourages sword swingers and arrow chuckers to specialize in particular weapons and the lack of ability to actually *get them* is seriously hampering. Especially when all the full casters need is that headband of whatever +x to keep right on going. Heck they even get free spells as they level up. Sure, its neat to find that +3 keen Scythe.. except that the fighter has his feats in the Longsword and the ranger is arranged towards archery..

This is easily fixed with a very little work on the GM's part. I'm going to be running Legacy of Fire and, well, I'm going to advise players that focusing on Greataxe or Scimitar will expand their options for good gear significantly.

This kind of thing should be standard practice, as should changing the loot if there isn't a theme requiring it to be a certain way.

Shadow Lodge

I too agree with Dragonchess. I was a player in RotRL and have read both Kingmaker and Legacy of Fire on my own time.

Legacy of Fire does have parts where getting that one item is impossible, but it is also chock-full of magical gear, so characters will likely go through a lot of equipment. Powerful magical weapons are available relatively early, so it's easy to just recommend that players not specialize out of gate, but stick with stuff they find on the road. This actually favors fighters, the class that suffers the most from not getting their weapon of choice, since instead of Weapon Focus-Weapon Spec-whatever feat tree, they can and should branch out into protective stuff like Iron Will and Toughness. Naturally, this is only my opinion of things, all subjective.

Kingmaker does have the Trading Post feature and with some groundwork set in, the loot can almost sell itself, not to mention actually hiring people to craft for you - the KING. Royal Magical Armory, you say? Imperial Guild of Runesmiths, what ho?

With Runelords, our party was actually pretty stumped early on. Some of the group had played in Monty Haul campaigns before and, this being their first campaign within Golarion and first time with this new ruleset, were rather annoyed that the market could not really support what they thought was natural progression for arms and equipment. Headbands, better magical armor, etc. Magnimar's limit was 8000 gp, which was enough for my characters needs, but I wasn't going for spell DCs anyhow. I'm not sure whether it was that they were looking for high cost items or that the scenarios just did not offer enough sellable loot to meet people's estimates. We probably missed lots, since for instance, Misgivings had next to nothing to offer. Not that I minded, heh.

Later on, once we hit the road(or river, rather) for Hook Mountain, it immediately became obvious that there would not be magic marts anywhere and the name of the next scenario, FotSG, bespoke of yet another quest into the wilderness. This prompted players to take item crafting feats, which solved their magical wants pretty easily. Unfortunately it also meant we had time skips between scenarios a couple of months long. Whether they caused the enemies to prepare more thoroughly or attack us more fiercely since their plan was closer to fruition, I don't know, but it did make detest the whole "craft your own +6 headbands idea".

Now that we are playing Serpent's Skull and running headlong into the jungle AND those same players are picking up crafting feats again, I'm going to make one thing damn sure: No sitting down to craft for 3 months or even a week. Want to have minor wondrous gear or update your cloaks? Sure, but my character will walk out of the camp when the crafting spree begins, because there's nothing more mood breaking than stalling the story progression because someone wants to sit down and murmur to his headbands.

Not to mention the idea of teleporting back to the city from the ancient mountainside fortress, because "we'll definitely have a few days to shop before the apocalyptic plan comes to fruition. C'mon, we are supposed to have better gear by now.". All. My. Hate.

So yeah, I dig the frontier starting locations and scarce shopping opportunities. They irritate munchkins and give a feeling of scraping by and cherishing the things you do find. However, I still would detest playing a monk in some of the campaigns :P

Liberty's Edge

for wilderness forays a wagon is a great investment. Stick the crafter on the back and he can work while you travel.


Try this to help the PCs out in getting more access to merchants:

New use of Perform.

Works for my group and the performing PCs love it.


Selgard wrote:
The game encourages sword swingers and arrow chuckers to specialize in particular weapons and the lack of ability to actually *get them* is seriously hampering.

This is true, as far as my experience counts.

My solution is to let players swap their feats out with relative ease so they don't feel "locked in" to a certain weapon type. Just being lenient about respecs wasn't enough, I had to make a feat out of it.

Of course, all that does is make it more fun for martials to scrounge, so it doesn't really help the OP's issues.

OP: I suggest letting your GM know that you prefer an urban campaign.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Selgard wrote:
You want full plate? sorry hasn't come up yet. You need a better sword? sorry, no baddies have had it. Want the wizard to make one? sorry don't have time to craft. The game encourages sword swingers and arrow chuckers to specialize in particular weapons and the lack of ability to actually *get them* is seriously hampering. Especially when all the full casters need is that headband of whatever +x to keep right on going. Heck they even get free spells as they level up. Sure, its neat to find that +3 keen Scythe.. except that the fighter has his feats in the Longsword and the ranger is arranged towards archery..

But you overlook the fact that the games often practically broadcast the weapons that will be found over the extent of the adventure. Look at CotCT. GIANT FENCING SCHOOL! So what did I do? Made a Duelist! Never had to buy a new rapier again! Just picked the ones I liked from the loot! If you decide to play a Full Plate fighter in Serpent's Skull, good luck. I haven't played it, so I don't know, but it seems unlikely you'll find a bunch of monkeys in plate... but I could be wrong.

Also, can never go wrong with a longsword... @#$%ing everywhere.


One thing I've always thought would be interesting, but haven't needed to try yet, is to make enchanting a player's item a small side quest. If you have a player who takes an item that's never going to come up in the campaign, give them a way to enchant the item without taking it to a mage to get crafted. Maybe your player uses a heavy flail, for example, and still has a +1 heavy flail at level 7 or 8. The AP calls for the next treasure horde to have a flaming halberd, or something like that, that would be less useful to the player.

Instead, when they find the next bunch of treasure, maybe they find the notes for a ritual that will let them bind the very fires of hell to a weapon if they perform the ritual after slaying a demon, or plunging the weapon into lava, or whatever with the weapon that you want to enchant. The players make a small side trip to find the creature or location needed, perform the ritual, and now their +1 flail is a +1 flaming flail. I've always thought magic items should be more flavorful anyways, and having a PC who owns the flail that laid low a powerful demon, trapping part of its fiery essence inside for all eternity, is more exciting to me than the flaming flail they paid a wizard to make.

Grand Lodge

Selgard wrote:

As a caster I'm not bothered as much by "use what you find" but as a melee or physical ranged character it can be down right maddening.

You want full plate? sorry hasn't come up yet. You need a better sword? sorry, no baddies have had it. Want the wizard to make one? sorry don't have time to craft. The game encourages sword swingers and arrow chuckers to specialize in particular weapons and the lack of ability to actually *get them* is seriously hampering. Especially when all the full casters need is that headband of whatever +x to keep right on going. Heck they even get free spells as they level up. Sure, its neat to find that +3 keen Scythe.. except that the fighter has his feats in the Longsword and the ranger is arranged towards archery..

(not meant to be "casters are better!" just.. casters can more easily deal with "find what you find, you can't buy anything" type issues)

-S

I'm just curious but doesn't your group have a GM?

WHen I run a game I note what items my players use and substitute the appropriate treasure type when it time for an upgrade. Treasure, to me, has always been "generic." There is absolutely no way in the world for any developer to know that your fighter has specialized in only using cold iron kamas, or the rogue only uses copper throwing darts.

That is the GMs job to provide appropriate gear. If the GM is not doing so, then have a talk with him. If the adventure awards a +2 longsword, but the fighter only uses dwarven waraxes, then the treasure should be changed to a +2 dwarven waraxe.

It is absolutely no different at all from the GM adding an extra roleplaying scene, or throwing in an extra monster or whatever.


Some GMs and groups specifically do not like to customize gear to the players because it makes the world more believable to them. It's a different style of play. Not one that is better than another.


Krome wrote:


That is the GMs job to provide appropriate gear. If the GM is not doing so, then have a talk with him. If the adventure awards a +2 longsword, but the fighter only uses dwarven waraxes, then the treasure should be changed to a +2 dwarven waraxe.

It is absolutely no different at all from the GM adding an extra roleplaying scene, or throwing in an extra monster or whatever.

As TerraZephyr said above some GMs and players (like my group!) don't think tailoring treasure to the PCs abilities is realistic. Think about the old Conan novels and how Conan always used whatever sword or weapon was handy often just taking something from the guy he most recently offed. This is the style my group prefers. This way when you do get something more custom it is that much more special. But as TerraZephyr said above, no one way is right or wrong.

Grand Lodge

cibet44 wrote:
Krome wrote:


That is the GMs job to provide appropriate gear. If the GM is not doing so, then have a talk with him. If the adventure awards a +2 longsword, but the fighter only uses dwarven waraxes, then the treasure should be changed to a +2 dwarven waraxe.

It is absolutely no different at all from the GM adding an extra roleplaying scene, or throwing in an extra monster or whatever.

As TerraZephyr said above some GMs and players (like my group!) don't think tailoring treasure to the PCs abilities is realistic. Think about the old Conan novels and how Conan always used whatever sword or weapon was handy often just taking something from the guy he most recently offed. This is the style my group prefers. This way when you do get something more custom it is that much more special. But as TerraZephyr said above, no one way is right or wrong.

well if it works for you then it is the right way for you. :)

Wouldn't work for me though. I just don't find ANY part of the game "realistic." I throw that right out the door at the beginning :)

I can honestly say I never even considered people played that way. But like you said no such thing as a right or wrong way to play (unless you have sparkly vampires in your game- that is just WRONG) :)

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