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So I am looking to make an archer type for either an upcoming game or if my current character dies off.

I am fairly famillier with Pathfinder as well as 3.X

However I normally play full casters, as such my first thought for archer was "Archer? Cleric it is"

However I don't know if that still holds true in PF as it did in 3.5

Added to that is the fact that I am kind of bored with casters anyway.

So in reading throught the main book and the APG it seems that there are several "Archer" types.

1. Ranger with archery style.

2. Fighter with the "Archer" path from the APG

3. Monk (really?) with the Zen Archer" path from the APG

Can anyone give me the nickel tour of these? is one better/worse then the others?

Thanks for the help.
Thefurmonger wrote:
Stuff and other stuff

OK, a build I am playing with for pathfinder is a half elf Inquisitor of Erastil.

Here is the idea, you get ranger esque skills, longbow proficiency, secondary spontaneous cleric spells and teamwork feats. I went with the Feather subdomain of the animal Domain so I get + half my level to perception on top of the +5 my race will give me and the +4 I get at first level and the larger than normal wisdom bonus. So without magic items or additional feats I am starting with a +11 perception at first level and I only get better over time.

This means I can spot my quarry incredibly well, and the fact that stealth is a class skill means I get to hide in the bushes and shoot at my foes when I am comfortable with the task of turning them into pincushions. The class also provides sizable monster lore skills as well as detection abilities so you know what to shoot at your opponent and when.

So spend your feats on shooting your bow better, prioritize things like rapid shot and things that magic items cannot do for you, make sure you can sneak competently in your armor. Bear in mind your bane ability and your judgments work fine on your bow as well as spells like divine favor, so really you need to focus on putting lead out into the air and then go for precision.

At higher levels you get a ranger pet from the animal domain so you may want to tack on mounted combat and mounted archery so you can be a mounted skirmisher when you are not hiding and shooting or shooting from behind the shield wall.

Well it really depends on what you look for in an archer?

If you are solely interested in damage potential from a character using a bow, most classes can be made into archers simply with feat selection.

The Fighter and Monk archetypes aren't really any more powerful than other archer build, each simply employs a collection of tricks in order to be more versatile with their bow attacks.

For instance the fighter archetype allows you to experiment with ranged combat maneuvers. If this idea doesn't interest you too much then there is a good chance you are better off playing a vanilla fighter with a lot of archery feats.

As far as the Archer Cleric goes, I have never been a fan of the build. That said if you are looking for something with a similar feel, I suggest playing an Inquisitor. You get a ton of flexibility and getting Bane arrows will give you a terrifying amount of damage.

If you elaborate more on what aspects you are interested in for your archer I can make a better suggestion.

Race: Half Elf Class: Inquisitor (Erastil)
Str:14 Dex:14 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 16 Cha:10
1) Skill Focus: Perception, Point Blank Shot
2)
3) Rapid Shot, Lookout
4) Int +1, you get a cool animal now.
5) Precise Shot or Mounted Combat, your weapon is now a bane (whatever) bow.
6) Shield Wall
7) Precise Shot or Mounted Combat
8) Dex +1
9) Multi-Shot, Shielded Caster
10)
11) Mounted Archery
12) Some teamwork feat, Dex +1
13) Stuff happens from here on but honestly you are a good ranged support throughout this build with allot of great skills and some spells to toss out to enhance your character. If you don't feel like being a mounted archer you can make sure your pet has the ability to stop your opponents dead so you can continue to lay on the harm even when your enemies. Wolf is nice for this with their auto trip.

Another thing that is more unfair than letting a druid carry a full plate armor bonus into animal form is a gnome rogue with the sniper focus and a pair of Sniper Goggles.

Gnomes have the option of trading out defensive training and hatred for proficiency in any weapon they have personally crafted, so you pop off a masterwork heavy repeating crossbow and you can use it to your heart's content, combine that with Obsessive (Craft: Weaponsmith) and you have a scary combination. The real terror has to do with the sniper goggles, a item so absurd I ban them from play, it would allow you to make ranged sneak attacks from 1200 feet away.

terrifying.

Some notes on the Zen Archer monk:

Flurrying with a bow and using ki points means you can shoot a lot of arrows/round. A LOT. A lot.

The only archer in the group that isn't dex-dependent. You still want some dex, cuz monk, but that's both weird and cool.

Stacking weapon specialization and deadly aim with a decent strength can be pretty obscene. maximize early to-hits by taking heirloom weapon (composite longbow) for a +2.

Also note that a small monk really does well for this build (at the cost of some damage). No other equipment of note to worry about regarding weight, and like the shuriken frenzy monk the (composite) bow simply becomes a damage modifier delivery mechanism.

Theorycrafting it, your small monk with an heirloom bow at level 6 is flurrying (4/4/-1) arrows for:

12/12/7 with an 18 wisdom (4base, +4 wis, +2 weapon, +1 weapon focus, +1 size). With deadly aim that goes to 9/9/4 for weapon damage +6 (weapon spec + deadly aim). You can drop a ki point to make that 9/9/9/4 with the first shot taking the better of two dice (perfect strike). 10/10/10/5 at point blank, and the zen archer does that without provoking AoO

with a +1 weapon and 16 strength through buffs/items/whatever that means your archer is killing an equal CR baddy in about 2 rounds of full attacks within 30 ft. Since you have size/dex/wisdom/etc. boosting his defense and the monk never worries about provoking AoO with his bow, point blank isn't a terrible place to be while archering.

The downside is you're a bit squishier than the fighter/ranger archers, and don't have the spellcasting. But the tricks you get are pretty cool.
Thefurmonger wrote:

So I am looking to make an archer type for either an upcoming game or if my current character dies off.

I am fairly famillier with Pathfinder as well as 3.X

What level(s) would you be playing at? How fast advancement? The rest of the party? Source materials? etc.

I've toyed with the idea of a dwf monk10/rogue2 for PFS (which caps at 12th level) that dips into the rogue levels for dealing with traps. The role is spotter/scout basically.

-James

Well the character will need to work at all levels.

All PAthfinder is Ok as is some (read as not much) 3.X

I am really open as far as build goes and the rest of the party is not that optimised.

our games are about 50/50 rp/combat.

Really the Zen archer looks cool ATM as it can do some other really cool stuff and Flury with a bow seems to remove the main problem with flury (need to be right up next to people)

Thanks for all the advice thus far.

Most archer builds tend to look at how many shots that can do a round to maximize their damage, however ranger/rouge build aka scout build to try and maximize the amount of damage with one shot using sneak attack and vital strike. Worth a look.

I don't know if it's already stated but (as far as i know) only rangers and fighters can take the (wonderful) APG feat called point blank mastery.
leo1925 wrote:
I don't know if it's already stated but (as far as i know) only rangers and fighters can take the (wonderful) APG feat called point blank mastery.

Zen archer gets it at 3rd level. Actually significantly earlier than either the ranger or fighter could.

I think the Zen Archer Monk is my favorite archer, because of the 9th level ability: making Attacks of Opportunity with your bow. Here's my build:

*copypasta again!*

ZAM:
Man I feel dirty even suggesting this... A Zen Archer Monk.

9th level is where the ZAM reaches its full potential. Why? At 9th level, ZAM gains the ability Reflexive Shot: You can make attacks of opportunity with a bow.

You get to Flurry of Blows with a bow. (Can’t be combined with Manyshot and Rapid Shot, but who cares?) This is amazing, because now you no longer have to worry about enemies getting outside of your flurry range!

Combine that with all of the other amazing things the monk is offered, and you can make one amazing archer who is also a melee character. (You have AoO's and Point Blank Master means you don't provoke AoO's.) You also have amazing saves. The stats that matter to the ZAM are Wis, Dex, Str and Con (Further making your saves awesome.)

Spending Money:

If you have about 23k to spend you should have everything you need. Perhaps something like 4k for Headband of Wis, 4k for a Belt of Dex , ~8k on a weapon and 1k on a Cloak of Resistance and whatever else. (If you can get someone to craft stuff for you, you’ll have some more cash to spend. If that’s the case, I suggest getting a Headband of Wis +4. Wisdom gets you +AC, +Ki Points, +Atk rolls, +Will Saves, +CMD, +Perception… and other things. Other good things include getting a better cloak, and belt. Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor are nice too. ) Skip Bracers of Armor. Do him a huge favor and cast Mage Armor on him at the start of the day.

Stats for your Monk:

First of all, be a Dwarf. I guess you could be a Human, but really. Be a dwarf. You get bonuses to where it counts and penalties where you could care less. The 20 movement speed turns into 50 because you’re a Monk, and you also get other goodies for being a dwarf. (Darkvision, Hardy, etc.)

If you have a 20 point buy, for example:

Str 15
Dex 15
Con 11
Int 7
Wis 17
Cha 7

Apply middle-aged...

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 8
Wis 18
Cha 8

Apply racial bonuses and penalties and ability score bonuses...

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 22
Cha 6

Apply enhancement bonuses…

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 24
Cha 6

Feat Selection:

The feats the ZAM gives you straight out:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Weapon Focus(Longbow) – rather, you should be picking longbow?
Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
Point Blank Master
Perfect Strike

3 Monk Feats and 5 feats from leveling up. (Could they cram any more in?) I suggest:
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot (Level 6 Monk feat)
Deadly Aim
Point Blank Shot (You’re a melee character now! You love this feat!)
Toughness (If your Monk has more Con than my build, perhaps something else. Improved Initiative, a Save boosting feat… Whatever)

Optional feat strategy:
Dodge
Mobility
Combat Reflexes
Combat Patrol
(Benefit: As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.)

The strategy: The key to this is casting Enlarge Person on the monk. Combine your AoO archery with being large and having natural reach and with the additional reach from Combat Patrol… This can get a little silly. So long as they provoke the AoO, you can attack them (they still have to be within your threatened area when you attack) The feat says nothing about having to be adjacent to the enemy when you attack, so you can attack, run to a more favorable position, and wait for more enemies to provoke attacks. Rinse, and repeat. Have fun with this one.

The monk should be Lawful Neutral. This will be necessary for the following:

Traits:
Resilient: Shore up your Fort Save, since you have a lower Con.
Wisdom in the Flesh (Acrobatics) - Your Acrobatics checks are based off of your Wisdom modifier. Not entirely necessary, but being awesome at acrobatics is pretty sweet.

An initiative boosting trait is also pretty nice to have.

So what does this all add up to? Awesome.:

Given these things: You have a Belt of Dex +2, Headband of Wis +2, +1 Frost Longbow (or whatever works better; extra damage with archery is amazing), Cloak of Resistance +1, Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, and Mage Armor cast on him.

…and given you have these stats and you are at 9th level and you’ve followed my advice thus far…

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 24
Cha 6

You should have:

Special Abilities:
Flurry of Blows( +7/+7/+7 (with ki)/+2/+2)
Perfect Strike (9/day)
Zen Archery (To Hit based upon wisdom)
Ki Pool (11 Ki)
Various Ki Abilities
AC/CMD Bonus (+2 +7 = +9)
Fast Movement (+30, for +50 speed total)
Slowfall 40ft
High Jump

You will have:
+3 Initiative
~68 hp (Given you rolled an average of 4.5 on the hit die)
27 skill points to spend
AC - 29
Touch AC - 24
Flat-footed AC – 25
Fort Save – 9
Reflex Save – 10
Will Save – 14
BAB +6/+1
CMB – 8
CMD – 30

Dealing Damage:
To hit - +15
Flurry to hit - +16/+16/(+16)/+11/+11
Damage per arrow – d8+5+1d6 (frost or whatever)

Abilities to mess with to hit/damage:
Perfect Strike (Roll twice)
Deadly Aim (-2 Atk, +4 Dmg)
Point Blank Shot (+1 Atk, +1 Dmg)

I hope that was helpful and that you would strongly consider using the Zen Archer Monk.
Thefurmonger wrote:


1. Ranger with archery style.

2. Fighter with the "Archer" path from the APG

3. Monk (really?) with the Zen Archer" path from the APG

It's also worth looking into the rogue archetypes. The sniper and scout specifically.

Personally I really dislike the Archer archetype for Fighter. It's a dex-focused fighter build that gives up armour training. That said, a regular fighter (no archetype) could make a perfectly viable archer.

Generally speaking if you strip out all the classes and are jsut left with raw capability you get the fllowing kinds of archers.

The Dedicated Archer: This guy is all about shooting things. When he gets into melee he walks away and is constantly striving to put distance between himself and his opponent because that's where is strength lies. He puts out full attacks and deals impressive damage from afar with few things capable of stopping his attacks short of total cover. Which he can even defeat given enough feats.

The Support Archer: A spellcaster who is a support character first and an archer second. Essentially a cleric, bard, or summoner who focuses on bringing their abilities to bear in the first two rounds and then taking advantage of the buffs they throw out by popping arrows into people. In the end they do comparable damage to the dedicated archer while being a benefit to the group as a whole.

The Switch Hitter: Because irregardless of whether you're an archer or a melee fighter you'll rely on strength for damage. The switch hitter is often a class that gets free feats enough split themselves up a bit and prove effective at any range. They don't waste turns moving in on the enemy to close or gain distance. When the enemy is too far, they shoot them. When they get close, they go to town with the two hander of their choice. It's a good if purely because of the versatility.

Don't forget the new point blank mastery feat. Very useful in avoiding AoO's that archers normally have to worry about.
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