LPJ Design’s Secret Pathfinder Project Announcement coming Friday


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It's not just lame, it's Sofa King lame!


You know what would be an awesome April Fool's surprise? Louis actually putting out a well-edited, decent product!

I know I'd be shocked!

Liberty's Edge Contributor

Matthew Morris wrote:
Who knows what other 'lost projects' are out there?

Spoiler:
Well, for one, there's the entire sourcebook I wrote for the Wamphyri homeworld for the Necroscope product line by WEG. It was a 64-page sourcebook...the first thing I ever wrote for official publication. That was in 1996. WEG did pay me part of what they owed me for the book, but it never saw print. :/

Vic Wertz wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
I'd heard that TSR had a Midnight Sons boxed set lined up when they stopped making the Marvel RPG, and the same thing about West End Games having a Rogue Squadron book when they had their trouble.
A WEG Rogue Squadron book was definitely in the works—Lisa and I ended up buying some of the finished original art that had been commissioned for it.

WEG had some really nice art in their books; I picked up a few back in the day.


I'm not invested in the Razor Coast in any way. Personally, I really thought this was an example of 'Going too far' on April Fool's day. I was sure it was a joke before this post, but I still think this was in extremely poor taste. There are too many people that have serious emotions about this product to be this asinine with their feelings. This joke is NOT aimed at the product. It is aimed at those individuals who gave money up front in good faith. The product was not getting their hopes up. The customers that were hoping to finally see something for their trust are the ones that were targeted. Really LPJ, I can not see how you see it otherwise.


At the end of the day, LPJ decided to use the Logue situation as a marketing stunt. Did it have the desired effect? Only Louis knows for sure. Was it a good idea based on the emotions this issue engenders? Probably not. I'm not sure we need to beat this dead horse for much longer (there's more than enough threads on the Paizo boards dealing with the company formerly known as Sinister, thanks). If you're owed money by someone, then pursue it with all due diligence. And if a PR stunt leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth, then give it all the attention it deserves: none.

My 2 cents.


xorial wrote:
I'm not invested in the Razor Coast in any way. Personally, I really thought this was an example of 'Going too far' on April Fool's day...This joke is NOT aimed at the product. It is aimed at those individuals who gave money up front in good faith. The product was not getting their hopes up. The customers that were hoping to finally see something for their trust are the ones that were targeted.

Yes, this little stunt also came across to me as inappropriate for April Fool's day joke. I suppose in one way it did "work", since it got me to visit the LPJ website. However, since now I've decided I won't be purchasing anything from LPJ, did it really have the desired effect?

Jon Brazer Enterprises

TrickyOwlbear wrote:

At the end of the day, LPJ decided to use the Logue situation as a marketing stunt. Did it have the desired effect? Only Louis knows for sure. Was it a good idea based on the emotions this issue engenders? Probably not. I'm not sure we need to beat this dead horse for much longer (there's more than enough threads on the Paizo boards dealing with the company formerly known as Sinister, thanks). If you're owed money by someone, then pursue it with all due diligence. And if a PR stunt leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth, then give it all the attention it deserves: none.

My 2 cents.

What TOB said.


I have bought a few of Louis' pdfs. And I used to recommend them to my players. But after this stunt, I think I'll be suggestng that they spend their money elsewhere.

A game publisher (or game store owner) who likes to #$%# with the feelings of the gamers is just not worth supporting.


Patrick Curtin wrote:

You know what would be an awesome April Fool's surprise? Louis actually putting out a well-edited, decent product!

I know I'd be shocked!

Glad to know that when me and by buddies come out with our stuff we'll already be ahead of an established 3PP

also, notice how he hasn't come back to this thread to apologize, or anything at all


He did quote someone that supported him in the comments section on his blog though.

*shrug*

Shadow Lodge

Wicht wrote:
Blazej wrote:

When I went to bed yesterday I sort of assumed that LMPjr would have seen the negative reaction and worked more on an apology rather than continue with a joke that few seemed to show any support for.

I guess I thought too highly of him.

What does he need to apologize for? Letting people jump to obviously incorrect conclusions based on nothing more than wishful thinking? He made no false claims, made no derogatory comments, and forced no one to part with any money.

As I said elsewehere, Razor Coast, at this point, is a joke and deserves to be treated as such. That's not a knock on those that have invested in it, because its not their fault. But when things like Razor Coast happen you can either moan about it or laugh about it. Either way, the Razor Coast situation is not Louis' fault and this little joke is nothing to get feathers ruffled over.

Agreed. The biggest bad joke around this situation is that people have somehow convinced themselves that RC is actually going to happen at some point, despite the obvious signs that it will not:

1. The thing has apparently been "finished" for quite a while now. The only thing keeping it from actually being published? A complete lack of interest in ever actually putting it out there.
2. There have been numerous offers by other companies to buy the rights and actually publish the thing. These have been declined or ignored.
3. While some refunds have been issued, from the amount of people saying that they have repeatedly requested refunds with no response, it seems that the request for a refund get little more attention than the actual product does.
4. Check the date of RC's original announcement. If we damn LPJ for a April Fool's joke in somewhat poor taste, then shouldn't we be lynching Mr. Logue? At least LPJ has had the common decency to reveal that his announcement was an April Fool's joke in the same year that he announced it.


I will say again. Whether by intent, or lack of thinking, this joke did NOT target the Razor Coast product. What it did do was target individuals who have been hoping to finally see somebody, who is one of the guys that offered to buy it, get the chance to publish it. That is not a joke that everybody can share in. It is the same as calling somebody a doofus in school just to get everybody else to laugh at them. It is hurtful and misguided. If LPJ cannot see that, then I will NEVER support his company ever again. The conceit that he can't possibly be in the wrong is not one that I will support.


Kthulhu wrote:
2. There have been numerous offers by other companies to buy the rights and actually publish the thing. These have been declined or ignored.

Other than LPJ and Adamant, who? When those two are the only options presented, is it really surprising that they're declined or ignored?

Kthulhu wrote:
At least LPJ has had the common decency to reveal that his announcement was an April Fool's joke in the same year that he announced it.

Yes, LPJ is definitely to be admired for his professionalism and his last-second CYA plagiarized "joke".

Dark Archive

Brian E. Harris wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
2. There have been numerous offers by other companies to buy the rights and actually publish the thing. These have been declined or ignored.

Other than LPJ and Adamant, who? When those two are the only options presented, is it really surprising that they're declined or ignored?

I don't get this opinion.


Hyperion-Sanctum wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:

You know what would be an awesome April Fool's surprise? Louis actually putting out a well-edited, decent product!

I know I'd be shocked!

Glad to know that when me and by buddies come out with our stuff we'll already be ahead of an established 3PP

also, notice how he hasn't come back to this thread to apologize, or anything at all

Hyperion, you could take the used papers out of a bird cage, scan them into a PDF format, and still have a leg up on LPJ. The only thing 'established' about him is he likes to pump out a lot of hastily-done, mechanically-unsound, shabbily-edited dreck for a high price point.

Conversely, when you get your product out, I will be more than happy to take a look. I like to support 3pps that deserve it. You can see here and here that I put my money where my mouth is. And not another cent will go to a certain unfunny loudmouthed prankster who thinks making sport of peoples' misplaced trust in another company is all good fun.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

d20pfsrd.com ALSO likes well-edited content made by persons who believe in and support the OGL.

Anyone who does so gets basically free advertising with us, and at this point I'd say that's a substantial benefit, given our traffic.

Just sayin.

Scarab Sages

xorial wrote:
This joke is NOT aimed at the product. It is aimed at those individuals who gave money up front in good faith.

One last post and then I'm done with this subject :)

There is a bit of poking fun at himself in Louis' joke. Everyone is so quick to assume they are the object of his derision. Has anyone even stopped to think maybe the joke is on Louis: he wanted to put out RC and was not allowed to. The joke is as much about his inability to deliver the product as anything else.

Just something to think about.


Wicht wrote:

...Just something to think about.

Yep, thought about it. Still don't buy it. I think the chances of Louis 'poking fun at himself' considering his overblown ego is slim to none.

Judging from his previous comments and digs at Nick and Sinister over the past years, I think he possibly thought he could make people angrier at RC not coming out and not him. I suggest he work on a new RC- 'Really Contrite'. Though, once again, I doubt his ego will allow him to apologize in any meaningful fashion.


My Apology for my April Fool's Joke


Here's the irony from all of this. LPJ has probably gotten more attention on the back of a product that everyone has been waiting for over the past three years .... than from one of his own products.

Despite all the issues and frustration that folks have with Logue over the status of the Razor Coast product, the majority still have some form of excitement and/or wishful thinking with regard to any of his works surfacing to see the light of day.

If Logue would ever gather the opportunity to find his smile again and stick to what he does best - creating - and let the others handle the financial, production, and editorial side of things, I'm willing to venture that there'd be more folks out there that would give him another chance because they enjoyed with a passion what he had done in the past.

Could the same be said for LPJ?

Sincerity and goodwill goes a long way in this niche market. Especially when a lot of us interact with each other beyond that of a professional level than the 3.x days thanks to social networking.

Just my general observation. I don't have any dogs in this race.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

Urizen wrote:


Could the same be said for LPJ?

Nope. He's done in my book. Bad taste, picking on people who did nothing wrong and then an apology that seems to be a little too forced? Nope. I have other options to spend my money on and he's not one of them.

Seriously. That apology should have been thirty seconds long. It should have read: "I did a really stupid thing that I thought was funny and obviously wasn't. I shouldn't have done it. I displayed poor judgement and I hope you'll find it in your hearts to forgive me. I'm sorry."

End of apology. None of this "Oh we thought it would be funny" and "They tried to warn me but I think I'm terribly clever..." rigamarole. This was a "I'm sorry if I offended anyone..." not a "I'm sorry I was so stupid and offensive" apology.

Edit: I didn't preorder Razor Coast. I like Logue's work for Paizo and think it's good stuff. However, Louis made the cardinal sin in my book of hyping a joke for three days and then NOT MAKING IT FUNNY. Seriously? Roleplaying Cougars? Jeez, that's freakin'...lame. ANy other combination of RC you could have come up with? You could have done a fake product called Ruinous Coats and changed out the cover artwork so Nic Logue's face is in place of the were-shark and that would have been funnier, and a joke on Nic for terrorizing his customers. Roleplaying Cougars? The fact that you thought that passed for humor is why I won't buy your stuff now. Your taste is clearly nowhere near my own.


LMPjr007 wrote:
My Apology for my April Fool's Joke

Well, he did apologize, which is more than I expected. However, as James mentioned above, April Fools jokes are traditionally started on April Fools. Also, the history between Sinister and LPJ should have warned him to steer clear of the subject. Especially when there are a lot of folks out 30-60-90 dollars for preorders that might not reappear.

For my part I will apologize for my aggressive posting tone in these previous posts. That joke really pissed me off to no end. While I overreacted, I will still say the joke was in EXTREMELY poor taste, and has left a bad taste in my mouth. 'Nuff said, I will drop the matter.


Wow,
I don't know why I've been following this thread, it just sort of made me curious I guess. I've never 'sponsored' any 3PP books because I was always afraid it would be some guy taking my money and then vanishing in a puff of smoke. So when I saw this thread, it got me curious.

I just looked, and I don't have a lot of 3PP stuff in my download queue. Mostly Super Genius stuff (a lot of that actually), one Adament paper book (Tome of Secrets, which annoyed me due to how many erratas and typos made it into the first printing, half the classes were unusable sans errata), some Spes Magna (which while I don't have a lot, seems very well done for what I do have), some Rite publishing and a SKR book. Oh, and some Kobold Quarterly's.

I admit I had looked over a couple of Porter's books, but nothing jumped out at me as 'Need for game!'. Not that they looked bad, just not my normal type of supplements.

However, I often judge 3PPs with a grain of salt (Spes Magna and Super Genius got me to spend money on both how they operate as a company, and also by handing out a couple of free samples to convince me of quality). I've been very happy with their work.

I'm very choosy about spending money on 3PPs, having been burned a few too many times in the past by shoddy work. I usually judge the company by how they act. LMPjr was on my list of 'Maybes' until this. While I understand it was supposed to be a joke, it was a joke in very poor taste. Since it's decided me against buying anything in the future, I thought I would post so he has some feedback. In all honesty, a reputation is an easy thing to trash, and a very hard thing to build up. In my experience, making fun of people who feel like they've been cheated is not a good business practice, especially if you are at least peripherally involved with the cheating, as it seems Mr. Porter was (not saying he cheated anyone, just saying people feel cheated, and he was part of the project they are feeling cheated by, at least peripherally, from what I've read in this thread).

Shadow Lodge

mdt wrote:
In my experience, making fun of people who feel like they've been cheated is not a good business practice, especially if you are at least peripherally involved with the cheating, as it seems Mr. Porter was (not saying he cheated anyone, just saying people feel cheated, and he was part of the project they are feeling cheated by, at least peripherally, from what I've read in this thread).

The extent of his involvement was offering to publish the book. He basically offered the opportunity to get the people their pre-orders.

This was a April Fool's Day joke that was in very poor taste, and nobody should buy from those responsible ever again. And by 'this' I mean the announcement of the vaporware product Razor Coast.

The Exchange

LMPjr007 wrote:
My Apology for my April Fool's Joke

too little too late.


Kthulhu wrote:
mdt wrote:
In my experience, making fun of people who feel like they've been cheated is not a good business practice, especially if you are at least peripherally involved with the cheating, as it seems Mr. Porter was (not saying he cheated anyone, just saying people feel cheated, and he was part of the project they are feeling cheated by, at least peripherally, from what I've read in this thread).

The extent of his involvement was offering to publish the book. He basically offered the opportunity to get the people their pre-orders.

This was a April Fool's Day joke that was in very poor taste, and nobody should buy from those responsible ever again. And by 'this' I mean the announcement of the vaporware product Razor Coast.

Sorry, as I said, I was just going by what I read in the thread. I thought I had read he also did some work on it, including contribution or editing. Either way, I still don't think it was something I'd want done to me, nor something I'd approve of in a company I spend money with.

Sovereign Court

mdt wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
mdt wrote:
In my experience, making fun of people who feel like they've been cheated is not a good business practice, especially if you are at least peripherally involved with the cheating, as it seems Mr. Porter was (not saying he cheated anyone, just saying people feel cheated, and he was part of the project they are feeling cheated by, at least peripherally, from what I've read in this thread).

The extent of his involvement was offering to publish the book. He basically offered the opportunity to get the people their pre-orders.

This was a April Fool's Day joke that was in very poor taste, and nobody should buy from those responsible ever again. And by 'this' I mean the announcement of the vaporware product Razor Coast.

Sorry, as I said, I was just going by what I read in the thread. I thought I had read he also did some work on it, including contribution or editing. Either way, I still don't think it was something I'd want done to me, nor something I'd approve of in a company I spend money with.

There was a Lou who helped with the manuscript - Lou Agresta. Which could explain some confusion. But Mr. Agresta doesn't bear any of the blame or responsibility for RC being late.


LMPjr007 wrote:
My Apology for my April Fool's Joke

Thank you for the apology.

I'm still miffed about the whole Cougars themed "joke," as I know at least two female friends in happily committed relationships with their younger significant others, and this "joke" struck a little to close to mockery.

I'm not going to completely write LPjr off, but I will be more apt to carefully parse what he says & blogs in the future.


Robert Hawkshaw wrote:

There was a Lou who helped with the manuscript - Lou Agresta. Which could explain some confusion. But Mr. Agresta doesn't bear any of the blame or responsibility for RC being late.

Ah,

Ok. Just goes to show how easy it is to trash your rep if you're not careful, especially in a community driven type of business.


LMPjr007 wrote:
My Apology for my April Fool's Joke

I have gotten out of this what I said would be enough. It was an apology. I don't think it was forced. To me it was a real apology for something he never thought would blow up in his face. The lesson here, and this is for ANYBODY, is to get feedback on ideas like this. THEN, this is the most important thing, listen to the feedback.

LPJ, you have really apologized, so now I will go back to actually judging your products on their merit. I know others will not, but that is the results you will have to work with. I can forgive, because I had nothing tie up in the Razor Coast. I said before, that I was sure it was a joke, but even I was hoping it was not. The setting always sounded interesting. And I thought that it would upset too many people if it was indeed a joke. So, I hoped you were thinking that too. I understand committing a faux pas. Lord knows I have done many myself. I want everyone here to think about the last time you inserted your own foot in your mouth before you get too lynch party happy.


Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
farewell2kings wrote:

Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Human?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dark_Mistress wrote:
farewell2kings wrote:

Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Human?

Coming from a succubus, that's pretty damn funny. :P


Urizen wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
farewell2kings wrote:

Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Human?
Coming from a succubus, that's pretty damn funny. :P

~LAUGHTER~ Zing!!!

Dark Archive

Zherog wrote:
golem101 wrote:
On the other hand, I really don't think that RC is a joke in itself. Lou agresta, a bunch of proofreaders, the Ling9000 (is that the correct codename?) sweated way too much over it to consider it a joke.

Close enough, if it's not exactly the name Lou used. ;)

-- THE Ling9000

Looking forward (with due zen-like calm) for the pathfinderized version of RC! ;-)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sharoth wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
farewell2kings wrote:

Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Human?
Coming from a succubus, that's pretty damn funny. :P
~LAUGHTER~ Zing!!!

Just wait, I got a gimp box with your guys names on them. Hell I might even make you share one.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
farewell2kings wrote:

Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Human?
Coming from a succubus, that's pretty damn funny. :P
~LAUGHTER~ Zing!!!
Just wait, I got a gimp box with your guys names on them. Hell I might even make you share one.

Why do I suddenly get the mental image of two guys chained to a box and each other with only faux leather straps for clothing (that doesn't cover much) and handcuffs with faux fur trim?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dark Sasha wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
farewell2kings wrote:

Wow. What's the elven word for 'sad, pathetic attention harlot?'

Human?
Coming from a succubus, that's pretty damn funny. :P
~LAUGHTER~ Zing!!!
Just wait, I got a gimp box with your guys names on them. Hell I might even make you share one.
Why do I suddenly get the mental image of two guys chained to a box and each other with only faux leather straps for clothing (that doesn't cover much) and handcuffs with faux fur trim?

You forgot the faux leather hood with a zipper mouth.

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