Ring of Sustenance and preparing spells once a day.


Rules Questions


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I got into a brief argument last night about preparing spells. A fellow player was pretty sure he had read somewhere that you can only prepare spells once per day, and he thought it specified once every 24 hours. I don't think that is true. I am pretty sure a "day" starts after you take an eight hour rest, and the 24 hour period has nothing to do with it. Now what he could have been thinking of is how clerics prepare spells, which seems to indicate they have time sync it up with the time of day. This was all good and fine until I mentioned the ring of sustenance, which has an odd phrase it.

This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

Now I am not sure how it works. Anyone know the ruling?


qlawdat wrote:
Now I am not sure how it works. Anyone know the ruling?
core pg 78 wrote:
A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day.

I interpret that to be a limit going from 12:00am to 11:59pm. During that timeframe, you cannot cast more than your daily allowed limit. Any time during the next day, you can memorize and cast your spells.

You don't need to wait 24 hours since the last time you memorized your spells.

Don't forget about this limitation:

pg 218 wrote:
Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions: If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit.

With a Ring of Sustenance, you only need to sleep 2 hours, but you still need to count castings within the last 8 hours to determine how many spells you can memorize for the day (although it would be reasonable to house rule that down to 2 hours too).


Spellcasters can do some odd things. :)

A wizard can only cast as many spells per day (24hrs) as the table in the GMG + his int allows.

However, he does *not* have to sit down and memorize them all at once. He can leave a slot (or several slots) free and then at some point sit down and fill in the vacancies.

Quoteth the PRD (from the Magic section)

Spoiler:
Spell Preparation Time: After resting, a wizard must study his spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If he wants to prepare all his spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of his daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.

Spell Selection and Preparation:

Spoiler:
Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.

When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.

You can't get more than a full days of spells out of any 24 hour period but you don't have to sit and memorize them all at once. At least- not for a wizard.

-S


Selgard wrote:
You can't get more than a full days of spells out of any 24 hour period but you don't have to sit and memorize them all at once. At least- not for a wizard.

Actually, I don't see any references to a 24 hour rolling window. It is only described as a "day" (which may or may not mean 24 hours, depending on the celestial details). I believe this is valid:

Day 1: memorize at 6pm
Day 2: memorize at 3am (9 hours later)
Day 3: memorize at 8am (29 hours later)

As long as you don't memorize spells more than once a day (with the exception of open slots), I believe it is fine, IMHO.

If you happen to be in a game set on Pluto, you are still able to memorize spells once during each day (which is 153 hours long, bummer).

Liberty's Edge

qlawdat wrote:

I got into a brief argument last night about preparing spells. A fellow player was pretty sure he had read somewhere that you can only prepare spells once per day, and he thought it specified once every 24 hours. I don't think that is true. I am pretty sure a "day" starts after you take an eight hour rest, and the 24 hour period has nothing to do with it. Now what he could have been thinking of is how clerics prepare spells, which seems to indicate they have time sync it up with the time of day. This was all good and fine until I mentioned the ring of sustenance, which has an odd phrase it.

This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

Now I am not sure how it works. Anyone know the ruling?

Essentially, the clause you've highlighted in your OP says that the ring changes how much rest you need, but doesn't change the fact that daily limits are daily (roughly 24 hrs) rather than rest cycle limits.

The spell preparation spells are a bit loose and they tend to show their warts if you press on them. At the most general terms, spellcasting abilities are defined per day. But, the rest and preparation time is shorter than that, which leads to varied interpretations. As long as you don't try to squeeze extra slots into the day, generally things are fine.

To my thinking, a wizard has daily limits. The rules about rest time describe what to do during that day; they don't define the day's length. How long a day is for a given campaign world can vary, but I think the rules are written around a 24 hour standard. When a day starts/stops is an element of culture. Most of us see this in the modern western world as midnight, but some religious traditions start the day at sundown; it isn't a constant. In game terms, if you don't press on it, it doesn't matter. If you do press on it, it gets wonky.

The specific rules related to rest, how much rest, recent casting and such all refer to that period of the day that is the boundary condition just prior to preparation. But, they don't change the length of the day itself. Those who view this differently, and instead see the rest/prep rules as defining a day will, of course, see this differently.


Howie23 wrote:
good stuff

+1


FarmerBob wrote:
If you happen to be in a game set on Pluto, you are still able to memorize spells once during each day (which is 153 hours long, bummer).

LoL.


I guess I am confused. I have never thought that 'a day' needed to be 24 hours. I always assumed it meant from when you rest until you rest again. If you sleep for 8 hours, prep your spells, go fight in an arena for half an hour, get beat up, burn through most of your spells and scrape out a win. You then get magically healed and rest for 8 more hours in order to get ready a fight that night. You have rested 8 hours and have had another hour to prep your spells again but 24 hours have not passed so you cannot prepare your spells again?


qlawdat wrote:
I guess I am confused. I have never thought that 'a day' needed to be 24 hours. I always assumed it meant from when you rest until you rest again. If you sleep for 8 hours, prep your spells, go fight in an arena for half an hour, get beat up, burn through most of your spells and scrape out a win. You then get magically healed and rest for 8 more hours in order to get ready a fight that night. You have rested 8 hours and have had another hour to prep your spells again but 24 hours have not passed so you cannot prepare your spells again?

By RAW you are correct.

Liberty's Edge

qlawdat wrote:
I guess I am confused. I have never thought that 'a day' needed to be 24 hours. I always assumed it meant from when you rest until you rest again. If you sleep for 8 hours, prep your spells, go fight in an arena for half an hour, get beat up, burn through most of your spells and scrape out a win. You then get magically healed and rest for 8 more hours in order to get ready a fight that night. You have rested 8 hours and have had another hour to prep your spells again but 24 hours have not passed so you cannot prepare your spells again?

I think I've already answered this to the level of precision that I think the rules support. As I've said, pushing on it results in wonkiness; something breaks down and it becomes inconsistent.

Either a day is variable based upon a choice to rest or not. Ultimately, it comes down to a design/interpretation philosophy that looks at whether the game attempts to describe how to do cool stuff in a fantastic world, or whether the game-world is so utterly alien from our own experiences that the rules themselves define the nature of reality to the characters in the game.


Might not help officially, but the fluff in my campaign ties magic to an astrological (and planar) rotation which occurs every 24 hours. Problem solved.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:
Might not help officially, but the fluff in my campaign ties magic to an astrological (and planar) rotation which occurs every 24 hours. Problem solved.

I generally use from sunrise to sunrise. Lots of things are tied to sunrise in my world. One of them is the limit of raise dead. If a character dies in my world, the time limit on the raise dead and reincarnate spells is the next sunrise.


Oh I am all for having the game world having effect like that on magic. I was just wondering what the answer is by RAW.


I beleive that the determining factor for how long a single day is is dependent on your campaign world, most of the campaign worlds, use that same 24 hours per a day as us in the real world.

I know that the Forgotten realm campaign guide from 3.5 says that a single day is 24 hours it goes on to say that a week is 10 days and a month is 30 days.

each campaign world would have its own hour, day, week rules, but the general rules mainly apply that 1 hour equals 60 minutes, 1 minute equals 60 seconds, so based on that if the campaign world says 1 day equals 24 hours you would have to wait 23 hours if you cast all your spells at the begining of that day.

I have never read the galorion campaign guide so i don't know if it defines how many hours are in a day.

now I have noticed that there are some abilities like the barbarian rage that says # per day, but then it goes on to say that they recover all thier uses after 8 hours of sleep.

at that point its purely left up to the DM on wheather or not 8 hours or in the case of the ring of sustance 2 hours of rest is all that is needed.


Whatever you come up with, it should probably be consistent across all things that happen every day (such as healing, checking for affliction effects, etc). If you can relearn all spells after every 8 hour rest, does that also mean you roll to see if a disease gets better or worse then too?


I don't know if this helps but on page 171 of the Pathfinder Core Rule Book, under overland movement. "Overland movement is measured in miles per hour or miles per day. A day is represnts 8 hours of actual travel time. For rowed watercraft, a day represents 10 hours of rowing. For a sailing ship, it represents 24 hours."

I know its alittle off topic, but I have noticed that alot of gamers tend to think a day is from the time your charcter wakes up till he goes to sleep, even if only 1 hour has passed.


ooh but then what happens if the PC is in a world where normal time does not pass, or an outer plane, like the limbo or the astral? how does one keep track of "time" on a plane like the deepest cave in the plane of shadow? what if a PC is knocked unconscious and wakes up not knowing when ...? My guess this is for the GM to adjudicate.

BTW as a trivial note, I am an adamant adherent to the old planescape material and the great wheel cosmology as per Saint Gary Gygax


Hi all, this actually came up in our game last night, and we can to a different set of conclusions (perhaps not RAW, but I'll deal with that in a minute!)...
...clerics and generally divine casters can only commune with their power 1/day (the day here becomes irrelevant as a time period outside of the fact that it states:

(p.40) Clerics pray or meditate for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation...to regain her daily allotment of spells.

Because we are dealing with 2 separate sets of time ("a day" and "a time"), we threw out the thoughts that the day had to be 24 hours or 8 hours; that it was in fact, the TIME OF DAY (or time during the day) that mattered to divine casters.
Arcane casters? now that's where things got trickier. Because there are no set parameters as to the numbers of hours needed for a day (re-read the posts to see the various ideas on 24 vs 8 hour days!), our DM came to the conclusion, that it was the REST that was important:

(p.218) A wizard’s level limits the number of spells he can prepare and cast. His high Intelligence score might allow him to prepare a few extra spells. He can prepare the same spell more than once, but each preparation counts as one spell toward his daily limit. To prepare a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level.
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement,combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in
order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.

So here we can clearly see its the rest that matters. 8 hours. Simple, right? Well essentially. Although we have to be liberal now, in the process by which we measure "a day." We also deemed this applies to most arcane based users as well (Sorcerer chief among them).
So what does this mean for the Ring of Sustenance? Honestly? Not a lot...(the trolls are already typing!), and the reason is CRYSTAL CLEAR:

(p.218) Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions: If a wizard
has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces
his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells
for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last
8 hours count against his daily limit.

So, even using the wonky time system we have in our game, the Ring is hardly broken...ALL THE SPELLS HE HAS CAST WITHIN THE LAST 8 HOURS COUNT AGAINST HIS DAILY LIMIT. Therefore, the Ring in our campaign is a quick way to top up a spell list, but does nothing for "restocking" a depleted spell list which was so "drained" in the last 8 hours.

The ring is awesome; we just didn't get blinded by the debate over what a day was, we already knew what a day was...

...the length of time we had to endure the hardships of killing goblins, drinking ale, and pinching the cheeks of our adoring fans!

Liberty's Edge

Don't try to get around the rules just so you can cast your full complement of spells more often. You get them once every solar day. Anything other than that and things get crazy and stupid.

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