Hellcat Stealth


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hi!

Do you have to move to use Hellcat Stealth (from Cheliax, Empire of Devils, p. 279 or can you stand right in front of someone an try to be "invisible" with a successful Stealth check opposed by the Perception check of your opponent?

Can you avoid AoOs if you are successful when using Stealth while being observed if you attack and then "withdraw"?

Is Hellcat Stealth like Hide in Plain Sight?

Kind regards


Scharlata wrote:

Hi!

Do you have to move to use Hellcat Stealth (from Cheliax, Empire of Devils, p. 279 or can you stand right in front of someone an try to be "invisible" with a successful Stealth check opposed by the Perception check of your opponent?

Can you avoid AoOs if you are successful when using Stealth while being observed if you attack and then "withdraw"?

Is Hellcat Stealth like Hide in Plain Sight?

Kind regards

Hellcat stealth negates the condition of 'must not be observed' to enter stealth. It does not negate the cover/concealment requirement, so if you are standing right in front of your opponent you can't use it. So no, it's nothing like HiPS, you still have to have something to hide behind/within to use it.

Shadow Lodge

What you can do is cast blur, or have it cast on you. This grants you concealment. Now you can hide in plain sight so long as the light conditions are normal or bright. You still suffer the -10, though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alorha wrote:
... blur, ...

interesting...


Lythe Featherblade wrote:


Hellcat stealth negates the condition of 'must not be observed' to enter stealth. It does not negate the cover/concealment requirement, so if you are standing right in front of your opponent you can't use it. So no, it's nothing like HiPS, you still have to have something to hide behind/within to use it.

I disagree with that... because if you have cover/concealment you can already go into stealth without any aid. That would make Hellcat stealth kind of pointless.

*watches as the stealth rules can of worms is opened*

Edit: I also just checked Hide in Plain sight, which also says "A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed." The only difference between HiPS and Hellcat Stealth is that HiPS requires shadows while Hellcat Stealth requires light.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Matrixryu wrote:
I disagree ...

*hehehe*

I knew it. Isn't there anything official on HiPS or Hellcat Stealth?


Lythe Featherblade wrote:
Hellcat stealth negates the condition of 'must not be observed' to enter stealth. It does not negate the cover/concealment requirement, so if you are standing right in front of your opponent you can't use it. So no, it's nothing like HiPS, you still have to have something to hide behind/within to use it.

I also disagree with the above.

clipping of Stealth from PRD wrote:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.

Concealment or cover is NOT a requirement for using stealth. It is a requirement if you wish to break the "observed" condition. ( He sees me, so I run around a corner offering concealment to hide. )

Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils wrote:

Hellcat Stealth
You are difficult to see in the light.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Stealth), Stealth 6 ranks.
Benefit: You may make Stealth checks in normal or bright light even when observed, but at a -10 penalty.
Normal: You cannot make Stealth checks while observed.

Hellcat Stealth allows one to use stealth in normal or bright light EVEN WHILE BEING OBSERVED. Hence, no need for concealment or cover, because it can be used while being observed. ( He sees me, so I use a trick of the normal lighting condition to hide. O.o What the..?! Thems the breaks for livin'in a fantasy world.)

The freaky thing is, it is of no help to one if you are in dim light or darkness and being observed.

Oh, and sorry for dipping into the stealth/perception/observed wasp nest. I realize that alot of this stuff is unclear and RAW/RAI is left up to DM interpretation. I keep waiting for the addendum on this to clairify things.

Greg

Grand Lodge

My dm has allowed me to use it in shadow and darkness as well. I have such a high stealth skill that usually nothing sees me even with the -10. Its helped make me an efficient part of combat(and I am closer to a skill monkey design) and my most effective battle was in large part due to that feat.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

RAI It seems that Hellcat Stealth is intended to allow one to be able to HIPS in any lighting condition, as Low Light/Darkness conditions allow for stealth checks already since they grant concealment. The only ruling I'd make is that it functions without the -10 penalty in areas of Dim Light or Darkness unless the target has Darkvision, then I'd still apply the -10 penalty as normal.

Similar with HIPS, if the target has Darkvision it doesn't negate their ability to hide in a shadow. Always been a pretty large debate with my old gaming group.


I know I am raising this thread from the dead, but I have some info on this that will help the OP if he is still wondering.

Sean K. Reynolds on Hellcat Stealth.

He is a rules guy for PF and he wrote the feat. In this thread he states his intention was that HCS be a FULL version of HiPS in normal and bright light conditions. So, no cover or concealment is needed to use the feat.

Also, you don't have to MOVE to use Stealth.

Yes, you can avoid AoOs if you are successfully Stealthed out. You have to be visible to trigger an AoO.


Was Sean Reynolds going totally derp when he wrote that with those intentions? Did he fail that hard to see how game breaking that feat is?


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What, some guy can be sneaky?

I mean, whatever. It is way less broken than a lot of other feats


CWheezy wrote:

What, some guy can be sneaky?

I mean, whatever. It is way less broken than a lot of other feats

No, how about seriously? A guy can hide in plain sight in broad daylight with no cover or concealment? That makes no sense at all...if the feat were supernatural ability then it'd make sense.


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Barachiel Shina wrote:
CWheezy wrote:

What, some guy can be sneaky?

I mean, whatever. It is way less broken than a lot of other feats

No, how about seriously? A guy can hide in plain sight in broad daylight with no cover or concealment? That makes no sense at all...if the feat were supernatural ability then it'd make sense.

Fire breathing dragons and elves that can literally stop time with a few words.

But sure, let's draw the line at making a stealth check at a -10 penalty after some really heavy investment.

*shrug*


Well while we're at it, let's have a feat where the level 20 Fighter can cast Wish spells, too. I don't understand the point people are failing to make?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It's like it wasn't at all based on a Supernatural ability from a well known creature from Hell.


This came up, sort of, in the last game session I ran.

So the writers intention is that it works without moving or needing some form of concealment?

Cool. And going into Stealth while being observed doesn't trigger AoO does it?


Natan Linggod 327 wrote:

This came up, sort of, in the last game session I ran.

So the writers intention is that it works without moving or needing some form of concealment?

Cool. And going into Stealth while being observed doesn't trigger AoO does it?

Not if you use a 5 ft step.


Scavion wrote:
It's like it wasn't at all based on a Supernatural ability from a well known creature from Hell.

So does that mean this feat fails to work in an antimagic area? I don't recall the feat saying it's a supernatural ability.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It works in an Antimagic Field.

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