Recently after a rather extensive foray into the horribly unbalanced world of Epic 3.5 that was only kept in check through endless house rules, my group and I stumbled across Pathfinder and instantly fell in love with the system.
A lot of people immediately cringe or are quick to condemn a group that plays an epic campaign, which I can understand to a point if the old rules were used word for word... but we were able to find a balance that kept our game going for a number of years and maintained a high level of interest and enjoyment.
Currently our new group of heroes aren't very high at all, but while browsing through the Advanced Player's Guide I happened to notice what could potentially be a very deadly combination once a player hit around level 32 in the Pathfinder universe.
The combination being a level 20 Mobile Fighter / 12 Monk of the Four Winds would technically allow the character to spend 6 ki and utilize Slow Time and gain 3 standard actions in a round. And then use the Whirlwind Blitz ability of a Mobile Fighter to take three full rounds worth of attacks?
I know that ki is a limited resource, but even then, that is a ridiculous amount of burst to unload on a villain.
I figured that such a build would prove impossible based upon the old rules that (near the beginning of 3.0+ anyways) Monks and Paladins were unable to multi-class, though I might have just overlooked it this time around... I was unable to find the same ruling in Pathfinder.
Did I miss something important here?
Or is the possibility of this whirlwind dervish of time-stands-still brokeness a distinct possibility?
Its level 32. There are technically no rules regulating beyond level 20. But according to what I think. By that level, your character deserves to be broken.
so...you've a level 32 character and are complaining about him doing a ridiculous amount of damage?
Or are you cringing because you're gestalting and finding that class abilities that are normally impossible to synergize have really sick abilities when you break the system to combine them?...
How about something like the Eldritch Theurge, with combining Touch Spells with Eldritch Blast, thus combining reach and damage together? What about if you get a Reserve Feat, Thundering Touch, and use that for your touch spell? You could wind up with an 20d6/rd at will attack, 11d6 eldritch, 9d6 sonic...and then make it an AoE at will.
It's all a little crazy when you start doing stuff like that.
==Aelryinth
Note that the Pathfinder 'Epic rules' basically advise just tacking on levels in other classes, which is how he's framing his question and answer.
Actually, the best reply would be...what special abilities should a CR 32 enemy have to make a combo like this REQUIRED to beat him, and not an Auto-Win?
Think on that. Something like 'characters can only take partial actions' when attacking said creature, or it has an AC or DR so high the only way to do decent dmg is with massive attacks or huge numbers of them...
===Aelryinth
To address the specific question, yes Monks and Paladins can freely multiclass now. So yes, that's a valid combination at 32nd level.
And while it is powerful, a sorcerer 20 / monk 12 could throw three wail of the banshee's for 200 damage to up to 20 targets each in a 40' radius (even without any rules for epic spell slots). Though even a 20th level one could do two of them with a metamagic rod, so I'm not sure it's that much more powerful for those 12 levels. I don't think anyone's going to be surprised at how powerful characters can be at 32nd level, really.
Thanks for the response, Bobson.
I was afraid to post this initially, because every time I've ever mentioned anything epic in a D&D forum it's usually met with criticism or distaste without actually answering the question. ;)
I get it, I know how to twink 3.5 characters, I know that abilities can be used to get results beyond the norm at level 20.
Unfortunately, though, Slow Time cannot be used to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.
It even specifically states that it can't be combined to get extra full round actions, though I figured that since ones full round actions *become* a standard action as a 20th level variant Fighter, that that was why this twink would be allowed.
I was wondering if either I had missed a note saying that a Monk was unable to multiclass, or if perhaps there was something in the wording of the abilities that made me misinterpret.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Thanks for the response, Bobson.
I was afraid to post this initially, because every time I've ever mentioned anything epic in a D&D forum it's usually met with criticism or distaste without actually answering the question. ;)
I get it, I know how to twink 3.5 characters, I know that abilities can be used to get results beyond the norm at level 20.Unfortunately, though, Slow Time cannot be used to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.
It even specifically states that it can't be combined to get extra full round actions, though I figured that since ones full round actions *become* a standard action as a 20th level variant Fighter, that that was why this twink would be allowed.I was wondering if either I had missed a note saying that a Monk was unable to multiclass, or if perhaps there was something in the wording of the abilities that made me misinterpret.
Thanks for the feedback!
Remember, though, that most Monk abilities have pretty strict restrictions on what you can equip, so that may interfere, especially at super high levels.