Vampire the Masquerade: 20th anniversary edition


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ProfessorCirno wrote:

Ravnos was ridiculously racist. "All Ravnos are at least partially gypsy, and as we all know, gypsies are criminals and also the devil: Pick a crime, you have to roll to resist every time you don't commit that crime when you could! Also, they don't have permanent havens and squat where they like, pissing off the government just like real gypsies! Oh, and don't forget to lie to everyone and break promises left and right. That's pretty key."

Arabs have a different set of superpowers in basically every oWoD line.

There was also the Giovanni, who had The Italian Mafia Stereotype Handbook

And don't forget the rediculous amounts of Orientalism, where asian people have their own special Yellow Person Hell, special Yellow People Vampires, all of Asia is literally treated as one monolithic cultural identity...just the sheer amount of "No see it's different because Asia" was horrifying.

This rather raises the question how exactly the Ahl-i-Batin, Taftani, and to a lesser extent the Celestial Chorus, Cult of Ecstasy, The Euthanatos had different super powers than any other group of traditions mages.

Given that all of these had fairly major parts who where Muslim or Arabic in origins. For that matter, other than the Assamite, who exactly are these specifically 'arabic' super power wielders, i mean really only the Assimites, Ahl-i-batin and Taftani could be described as specifically Arabic, as opposes to North African, central asian or eastern European.

And a Giovanni could as easily be Cannibal Scottish banker from the Dunsirn family, a british mason from the St John family, a Chinese geomancer from the Li Weng, a kabbalist of the Rothstein family.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Zombieneighbours wrote:

This rather raises the question how exactly the Ahl-i-Batin, Taftani, and to a lesser extent the Celestial Chorus, Cult of Ecstasy, The Euthanatos had different super powers than any other group of traditions mages.

Funny thing about the Celestial Chorus. My pet Peeve was that they went to such lengths to *not* make them a 'JudeoChristian tradition', where the Verbena, and to large extents, Euthanatos, were the 'Wiccan faction' and the 'Hindu faction'.

One of the things I liked about the Templar Craft was that they were unrepentant Christians. Whether Protestant or Catholic Templars, they were Christian.

That's one of the reasons I like the Knights of the Cross in the Dresden Files. They're (primarily) unrepentant Christian w/o being portrated as Richards.

Not to mention, if any game should lend itself to ethnic typing, it would be Mage. You know, the entire 'you make reality by your beliefs' game.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:

This rather raises the question how exactly the Ahl-i-Batin, Taftani, and to a lesser extent the Celestial Chorus, Cult of Ecstasy, The Euthanatos had different super powers than any other group of traditions mages.

Funny thing about the Celestial Chorus. My pet Peeve was that they went to such lengths to *not* make them a 'JudeoChristian tradition', where the Verbena, and to large extents, Euthanatos, were the 'Wiccan faction' and the 'Hindu faction'.

One of the things I liked about the Templar Craft was that they were unrepentant Christians. Whether Protestant or Catholic Templars, they were Christian.

That's one of the reasons I like the Knights of the Cross in the Dresden Files. They're (primarily) unrepentant Christian w/o being portrated as Richards.

Not to mention, if any game should lend itself to ethnic typing, it would be Mage. You know, the entire 'you make reality by your beliefs' game.

Their shtich was monotheism, and that takes in the three Abrahamic faiths at the very least, and arguably hinduism as well.

As far as Euthanatos being Hindu, they have really strong celtic and greek elements too. In a lot of ways, the cult of Ecstasy is more explicitly Indian in origins that the Euthanatos.

And the verbena where rarely understood. They have about as much to do with Wiccan faiths, as such faiths have to do with pagan religions. I think modern pagans would be appauled by the practices of the verbena.

Human and animal sacrifice, blood magic ext all. Not really pleasant flower power stuff.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Uh-oh, here comes the "Werewolf is a game about HUMANS RAPING DOGS" argument. I'm off for the asbestos suit.

Never heard that one. The biggest one I heard was that the Werewolves were furry enviromental terrorists who of course were right, since all the spirits told them so. Even when it was pointed out that the environment has benefitted from scientific advancements, that had to be twisted somewhere in the canon to be the weaver calcifying.

I remember back in the days of the usenets, one of the regulars was actually learned in environmental sciences. Ethan made the mistake of posting a 'feel good environmentalist' rant and she tore him apart. He was writing from a heart, she was writing from various degrees in environmental science and her job (writing air permits for the state).

Finally the argument devolved into Ethan 'screaming' that she didn't care enough and her reply of "No, I do care about the environment. That's why I study and understand it."

I actually got to meet her face to face. One of the better 'internet meetings' I'd had. Lovely woman, haven't heard from her in years.

hmm. Would have loved to be there for that conversation.


Gorbacz wrote:
Uh-oh, here comes the "Werewolf is a game about HUMANS RAPING DOGS" argument. I'm off for the asbestos suit.

Nah, Werewolf is the game modeled after Alien, where you play the Alien, and the rest of the world, excluding Pentex, are the prey.

Regards,
Ruemere


oWerewolf is clearly a Saturday Morning Cartoon simulation.

This is because the Pentax are literally Captain Planet villains.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ProfessorCirno wrote:

oWerewolf is clearly a Saturday Morning Cartoon simulation.

This is because the Pentax are literally Captain Planet villains.

I still have fond memories of werewolf though. Memories of the high-rage leader of our party flipping out and cutting me in almost in half with a silver glaive during a stare-down. We were staring down since his plan was to "go there and kill the bad guys" and I objected that that was more of a goal, not a plan.

That and the final battle of that campaign (after begging the storyteller to let me heal my deflated lung from the previous event) where the BBEG 5th gen vampire triple-botched on a movement check and managed to fall and stake himself on a tree root sticking out of the side of a hill. Good times - I probably wouldn't go back to that, but it was fun at the time.


Zombieneighbours wrote:

The Announcement

Vampire is the definitive game of the 90's, encapsulating the Zeitgeist of the late eighties and mid nineties in a way no other game ever managed.It is also one of the great games of all times. And now, for the first time in close to a decade it will see a new release, in the form of the 20th anniversary edition.

To say I am excited by this prospect is a massive understatement, I hope you'll all join me is a massive cheer of celebration.

That is SO Awesome! Awesome with a capital A!!!

VtM: That were maybe the best times I've had in my 20odd years of gaming.


ProfessorCirno wrote:

oWerewolf is clearly a Saturday Morning Cartoon simulation.

This is because the Pentax are literally Captain Planet villains.

I always thought that was an in joke. Several fomori were just too obviously lifted.


ruemere wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Uh-oh, here comes the "Werewolf is a game about HUMANS RAPING DOGS" argument. I'm off for the asbestos suit.

Nah, Werewolf is the game modeled after Alien, where you play the Alien, and the rest of the world, excluding Pentex, are the prey.

Regards,
Ruemere

Interesting take.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The Information page for the project, says it will be available to all that go to the Grand Masquerade Convention in New Orleans, I hope it is not only for people that go to that Con.

Dark Archive

Dragnmoon wrote:
The Information page for the project, says it will be available to all that go to the Grand Masquerade Convention in New Orleans, I hope it is not only for people that go to that Con.

The POD version is due in Novemeber. if you just want the PDF, it is out now.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I pre Ordered the Non POD version a While back, that is shipping this month. Already have the PDF that came with it


Dragnmoon wrote:
I pre Ordered the Non POD version a While back, that is shipping this month. Already have the PDF that came with it

Thanks for mentioning that. I got the email for the PDF a few weeks ago but at the time it wasn't available for download yet. After seeing your post I just downloaded my PDF and I'm looking through it now.

I'm guessing we won't have shipping updates about when the print version is going out like pre-orders did with the Tome of Horrors. Frog God Games was very good about keeping customers informed about that. I don't know how pre-orders from White Wolf work. When I have a valuable book coming in the mail, I like to know it has shipped.

Now to go find money to pay for my ongoing subscriptions...


I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive.

The store.white-wolf.com has a notice up that they're shipping, but that status for individual shipments isn't necessarily current.


Just a heads-up for other pre-orderers: My copy was delivered yesterday.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Wolf Munroe wrote:
Just a heads-up for other pre-orderers: My copy was delivered yesterday.

Did you recieve it or was it shipped yesterday?

Scarab Sages

My GF just received hers a couple hours ago.


Dragnmoon wrote:
Wolf Munroe wrote:
Just a heads-up for other pre-orderers: My copy was delivered yesterday.
Did you recieve it or was it shipped yesterday?

It was delivered on the 31st. It arrived at my house.

As I said in my previous post, the store.white-wolf.com has a notice up that they're shipping, but the status of individual shipments isn't necessarily current.

So the only real way to know if your individual copy has shipped, until they update their website to indicate they're no longer shipping, is to have it be delivered.

Shadow Lodge

ProfessorCirno wrote:
And don't forget the rediculous amounts of Orientalism, where asian people have their own special Yellow Person Hell, special Yellow People Vampires, all of Asia is literally treated as one monolithic cultural identity...just the sheer amount of "No see it's different because Asia" was horrifying.

I find this comment being on the Paizo boards a bit ironic, since apparently Tian Xia is going to have a completely different planar structure than the Inner Sea Region.

Shadow Lodge

Face_P0lluti0n wrote:
My GF just received hers a couple hours ago.

too easy

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My book came in while away of a Training Trip..

Forgot it was going to be Leather bound.. I can't use that for Gaming!!!


Dragnmoon wrote:

My book came in while away of a Training Trip..

Forgot it was going to be Leather bound.. I can't use that for Gaming!!!

Yeah, mine looks way too nice. I'm hesitant to read in it.

Silver-gilded pages? Embossed faux-leather cover? Full-color internal artwork? Well, OK, I can't really appreciate the full-color artwork if I don't open the book... But it's so nice I don't want to mess it up.

At least there's also the PDF to look at.

I've also been reading a bit in my old Werewolf: The Apocalypse Second Edition book. It was my first RPG book and I didn't really understand how to play it at the time. (I didn't know it didn't have levels and I never could figure out how to get XP to level-up.) I'm reading it as a warm-up to mustering the courage to crack open the Vampire V20 book. (I don't own any old Vampire rulebooks so this is my first Vampire The Masquerade book.)

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Wolf Munroe wrote:
I've also been reading a bit in my old Werewolf: The Apocalypse Second Edition book. It was my first RPG book and I didn't really understand how to play it at the time.

Did you know they are making a Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition as Well?

Also they Just released Dust to Dust for v20
They are working on V20 Companion

and a bunch of other stuff

Here is the link to the Release schedule


Depending on my finances, I may just get the Werewolf one. Not sure, though.

How is the V20 book so far? Anything we don't already know? Who's the artist? Are there PDFs available?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:

Depending on my finances, I may just get the Werewolf one. Not sure, though.

How is the V20 book so far? Anything we don't already know? Who's the artist? Are there PDFs available?

I don't have it yet, but the PDF is available for $30. There will be a POD/PDF bundle in the near future that I am waiting for.


I will consider the Vampire PDF and probably shell out the cash for the Werewolf book. It was "my" first RPG in that it was the first game that I got the book for on my own(thanks Dad!) and just spent an entire summer reading. I well and truly loved it, and it set the stage for so many things in my life, from how I try to be as "neat" a person as possible(hippy dippy recycling wise) and how I met my wife(let her play a Black Fury in my very first game. She had unusually large breasts to the point of suffering a -1 to Dexterity. This is also why I married her).


Freehold DM wrote:
ruemere wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Uh-oh, here comes the "Werewolf is a game about HUMANS RAPING DOGS" argument. I'm off for the asbestos suit.

Nah, Werewolf is the game modeled after Alien, where you play the Alien, and the rest of the world, excluding Pentex, are the prey.

Regards,
Ruemere

Interesting take.

Sorry for belated reply - I've never thought it would give a rise to a comment

Mind you, that was just my interpretation of extreme views presented by tribe stereotypes. I thought something like this at the time of reading the book: if you put yourself in a ghetto of your own making, you become a ghetto person yourself. The predator angle (wolf-based shapeshifting) supported that interpretation (especially, when you had a look at the way werewolves looked at the Kinfolk, you know, blood relatives incapable of shifting).

So, you got to play an Alien. A superior, hostile life-form with a nasty design for your cozy lifestyle.

Hence my preference for Vampires. These guys turned hypocrisy into art (a bad kind of art admittedly), and that made them more endearing to me. The allegedly racist elements of Masquerade setting were all the more fitting -- when one builds a culture around illusion of humanity, human vices become an asset.

Regards,
Ruemere


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
deinol wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

Depending on my finances, I may just get the Werewolf one. Not sure, though.

How is the V20 book so far? Anything we don't already know? Who's the artist? Are there PDFs available?

I don't have it yet, but the PDF is available for $30. There will be a POD/PDF bundle in the near future that I am waiting for.

Can you provide the link the the POD/PDF purchase info, or where the info probably will be?


It is right on Drive-thru RPG's site here and White Wolf has said recently that all their pdfs and PoD will be done through that site and not from them at all.


Dragnmoon wrote:
Wolf Munroe wrote:
I've also been reading a bit in my old Werewolf: The Apocalypse Second Edition book. It was my first RPG book and I didn't really understand how to play it at the time.

Did you know they are making a Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition as Well?

Also they Just released Dust to Dust for v20
They are working on V20 Companion

and a bunch of other stuff

Here is the link to the Release schedule

Yeah, I heard they were making a Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th Anniversary Edition too. I'll probably order it if I have enough money during the pre-order period, mostly just because I'm an obsessive collector.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

can't *bleep*in' wait for Werewolf..my favorite game, except for Mage. Can't wait can't wait can't wait.


Shanwolf wrote:
can't *bleep*in' wait for Werewolf..my favorite game, except for Mage. Can't wait can't wait can't wait.

Always good to meet another fan. There just don't seem to be too many of us.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh, yeah. can't wait for Mage 20th Anniversary.


CunningMongoose wrote:
Oh, yeah. can't wait for Mage 20th Anniversary.

I hope that there is one. They haven't announced it yet, though I like to think that WWP doing the missing Convention books is a good sign.


wonder if they will release a 20th mage, and a 20th wraith...I would buy both in a flash.


Abbasax wrote:
CunningMongoose wrote:
Oh, yeah. can't wait for Mage 20th Anniversary.
I hope that there is one. They haven't announced it yet, though I like to think that WWP doing the missing Convention books is a good sign.

They are doing the missing convention books? Link?


Zombieneighbours wrote:
They are doing the missing convention books? Link?

White Wolf 2011-2012 Release Schedule

NWO and Progenitors are due up next summer, so sadly it's still a ways off.


You can also get more details of their upcoming stuff here: White Wolf GenCon 2011 Promotional Materials

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh, I've just checked the credits page of V20.

I think I saw the name "Lisa Stevens" somewhere before. Vampire, Ars Magica and Pathfinder, great taste for things to work on, Lisa!


It is kind of nice to see that White Wolf seems to be coming back to life.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Anyone heard anything about the POD version of this?


It sounds like it's very close to release- possibly even this month. Though to be honest I suspect that it'll be January (I hope I'm wrong though).


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

To be honest, even January was sooner than I had anticipated. Thanks for the link!


Zombieneighbours wrote:
It is kind of nice to see that White Wolf seems to be coming back to life.

They never really died, they just switched to making the majority of their releases PDF/Print-on-Demand. If I understand it correctly, their plan is to have every single White Wolf product available through Print on Demand. Which makes me happy since there's there's still quite a number of books of theirs I'm missing. Sadly, it'll take a while before they get their catalog done.

Though, they did just suffer some lay off due to some earnings loss from CCP. It's my understanding that a couple of people that worked full time for WWP are now freelancers under contract with them.

Scarab Sages

Abbasax wrote:
CunningMongoose wrote:
Oh, yeah. can't wait for Mage 20th Anniversary.
I hope that there is one. They haven't announced it yet, though I like to think that WWP doing the missing Convention books is a good sign.

It would be the next logical step after a Werewolf 20th Anniversary...and I am so willing to pay whatever they ask for Mage 20th Anniversary.

Looking at the promo materials from DTRPG, it looks like they have a Mage Translation Guide planned too. Page 23 of the presentation pdf. I can't help but think M20 will follow shortly thereafter...


Very true. I'm pretty excited to see that translation guide. I like the setting for Mage: Ascension better the Mage: The Awakening, but I like The Awakening's rules a little bit more then Ascension.

As much as I wish we'd get a Wraith 20 and Changeling 20, I'm betting that we'll only get the big three.

Shadow Lodge

Abbasax wrote:
As much as I wish we'd get a Wraith 20 and Changeling 20, I'm betting that we'll only get the big three.

I think the best the others can hope for is a big book that kinda skims through the basics of the other seven games, and that's probably a remote possibility at best.


Kthulhu wrote:
Abbasax wrote:
As much as I wish we'd get a Wraith 20 and Changeling 20, I'm betting that we'll only get the big three.
I think the best the others can hope for is a big book that kinda skims through the basics of the other seven games, and that's probably a remote possibility at best.

Totally, though I do hold out hope they'll do translation guides for all of the cWoD at some point. The new rules work so much better for cross-over games. Even though I very rarely have the desire to run one, I'd like to have the option without fear of my head exploding.


Abbasax wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
It is kind of nice to see that White Wolf seems to be coming back to life.

They never really died, they just switched to making the majority of their releases PDF/Print-on-Demand. If I understand it correctly, their plan is to have every single White Wolf product available through Print on Demand. Which makes me happy since there's there's still quite a number of books of theirs I'm missing. Sadly, it'll take a while before they get their catalog done.

Though, they did just suffer some lay off due to some earnings loss from CCP. It's my understanding that a couple of people that worked full time for WWP are now freelancers under contract with them.

Their production rate had dropped right off, and quality took a dive after changling: the lost, in my opinion. I've also been missing the old world of darkness more and more in the last two or three years.

As a full blown collector of Mage and Wrait, knowing that I will soon be able to get the books I am missing is very satisfying.

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