Another tieflings as PC race question - skills and proficiencies


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Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Someone hasn't read The Primal Order, I see. :)


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Someone hasn't read The Primal Order, I see. :)

No ): Too busy arguing for things I disagree with. . .


Thanks James!

Wheres the 'Like' button at?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Someone hasn't read The Primal Order, I see. :)

Well considering that it's been out of print for about two decades....

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Matthew Morris wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Creatures with zero Hit Dice... like tieflings... NEVER gain their racial skills or weapon proficiencies. Their class skills and weapon proficiencies are ALWAYS determined by their class unless it specifically says otherwise in their specific racial traits (such as how tengus gain access to all swords). The generic creature type class skills and proficiencies with weapon and armor never apply if the creature has no racial Hit Dice.

Hit Dice has EVERYTHING to do with class skills, in other words.

Humans have d8 Racial Hit Dice, but they don't gain the humanoid skills automatically as class skills. Tieflings thus don't gain the outsider class skills automatically either.

But do they have to eat/breathe/sleep? *ducks*

Seriously, could you revisit the types section in Bestiary three to spell that out better?

Native outsiders do indeed eat, breathe, and sleep.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
meabolex wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Great Answer

Thanks James.

Real quick -- since this answers a semi-related question in another thread:

Since level adjustments are gone from Pathfinder, the book states:

PRD wrote:
There are a number of monsters in this book that do not possess racial Hit Dice. Such creatures are the best options for player characters, but a few of them are so powerful that they count as having 1 class level, even without a racial Hit Die. Such characters should only be allowed in a group that is 2nd-level or higher.
I know the svirfneblin and noble drow jump out as being 1st level in a 2nd level party, but I assume that tieflings, aasimars, hobgoblins, and tengu do not need a level reduction as recommended above? Or is the above PRD quote purposefully ambiguous?

It's purposefully ambiguous. In hopes of empowering GMs to be able to make their own decisions for their own games, without having to fight players who use printed rules as ammo to try to undermine the GM's authority.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Alzrius wrote:

Game, set, and match! James, thanks for ending the ambiguity on this issue; I hope that your answer gets into the FAQ (or perhaps even an errata document) soon.

Just to head things off before someone else asks: does this also apply regarding templates that change a creature's type (and don't grant any natural Hit Dice)? Does the augmented subtype make a difference?

Thanks!

Templates that change creature types carry their own rules (and thus their own complications). Don't try it if you're not willing to work with your GM to work out the invariably strange weirdness that arises from it all.

The "Augmented" subtype, in any case, barely ever means anything more than telling the reader what the augmented creature used to be. It's pretty much just flavor.


meabolex wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:


Are you kidding? I'm one of the 'even the devs can't correct me' posters! :P Like JJ's post above. I know he says it is that way, but I say it is not that way.

<Cast silence on ToZ, no save>

Being a demilich has it privileges. :)

Just cast it on yourself and walk up to TOZ. . . no save either q:

Then I can't hear my own voice, and neither can the rest of the multiverse. That would just be cruel, and I am not that evil. :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

wraithstrike wrote:
meabolex wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:


Are you kidding? I'm one of the 'even the devs can't correct me' posters! :P Like JJ's post above. I know he says it is that way, but I say it is not that way.

<Cast silence on ToZ, no save>

Being a demilich has it privileges. :)

Just cast it on yourself and walk up to TOZ. . . no save either q:
Then I can't hear my own voice, and neither can the rest of the multiverse. That would just be cruel, and I am not that evil. :)

Hmmm ... Wraithstrike's mouth moves, but no sound is coming out ...

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