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I have a question about running the Vilkacis
I've never run a possesssed NPC before that could affect the PC's. Any suggestions on how to run this encounter?
My though is to make the PC's start rolling Will saves and the worst roll becomes possesssed, gaining the Vilkacis template. That PC then must start attacking anyone around them (with GM direction if they try to not act possessed).
Once the Vilk is removed from a PC, it will try to re-possess another PC in one round. This gives the PC's one round to try to kill the spirit, something they have had practice with in HoH.
Of course this is dangerous ground. However, my group is very mature and has enjoyed the new mechanics in some of the encounters that have been thrown in this AP.
Any further advice would be realy helpful!
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Thanks Cibet-
This encounter is actually at the Stairs. They defeated the Vilk at the Lodge, but its had time to reappear. So the party is getting ready to walk in the temple first thing. I can either have them face it off the bat or ignore the encounter, which seems a shame.
Yeah, the PvP combat worries me some...
On the other hand, I had a tough time keeping the various wolf packs straight. Why, oh why, did they each have to have two names and why did the text have to randomly use either of the two interchangeably?? Agh! If you want to give each pack two names, fine, but at least use one or the other exclusively in the GM text!
Huh, strange. Not only I remember all of their names months after I ran that chapter, my PCs do too. Easy to remember for some of them, too. Fiendish Werewolves who worship Jezelda - Demon Wolves/Jezeldans. Names of Silverhides and Broken Ones is tied to their respective leaders and if you remember their names (and you should, with them being important NPCs/mini-bosses), you know the name of the pack, too! Prince's Wolves have only one name and the only one that doesn't corellate to anything is Vollensag.
So, in the end, you have to remember one uncommon (but cool sounding) name.
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Just a follow up on the Vilkacis. My PC's defeated him in our last session, but it was a nail biter for a few characters. The Vilkacis killed one PC (well the other PC's did!) and infected one who eventually turn werewolf.
And... my gaming group really like it. Once the first PC died, they understood how to defeat the Vilkacis much better and took it out in two rounds after someone finally made a Will save.
It was a great encounter and will probably be one of the ones we remember from the AP for a long time!
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On the other hand, I had a tough time keeping the various wolf packs straight. Why, oh why, did they each have to have two names and why did the text have to randomly use either of the two interchangeably?? Agh! If you want to give each pack two names, fine, but at least use one or the other exclusively in the GM text!
Ughhh! Me too.
What I did was was make an index card for each tribe and listed them by their two names along with any information that the PC's learned from their research (just about everything). After a few encounters, the PC's picked up on the politics of the Woods pretty quick. Though, they just like to kill Werewolves. So while they understand it... they tend to not pay that much attention to it.
Okay, so... Acrietia is a dread wight monk 6, which means she gets three attacks a round if she flurries; which means she can potentially drain three levels from the same target. I am reading this right, correct? Wights don't have that same inhibitor vampires do that keep the vamps from triggering energy drain more than once a round.
She's also located with four wight acolytes.
Grant you, good fortune may also save them, but I feel like this is potentially rather devestating if Acrietia and her band get the drop on a party.
Wights have a total of +4 on attack rolls. By that point, most of PCs should have at least AC 20. If even one of those wights hit anything, I'd say that's a success. Acretia's third attack is on a +5 attack bonus, so I doubt that one will hit anything too.
So, in reality, that combat will last two rounds tops, and if the PCs are unfortunate, they'll end up with three negative levels spread around the whole party.
Question about Event #4:
Is Duristan's local "witch" that looks suspiciously like a prostitute supposed to be Niama, Madam Ivanja's only courtesan?
--Vrocky Horror
Yap thats right.
I don't really think so, that would have been mentioned in the adventure itself. After all, the PC's get the chance to visit both of the ladies.
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And while I think the threat of level drain is of course pretty bad ( especially in the midst of an extended sequence of fights ), the PC's in my party either have ACs of around 25+ or are arcane casters with access to Mirror Image. I don't see that encounter being very challenging.
I don't really think so, that would have been mentioned in the adventure itself. After all, the PC's get the chance to visit both of the ladies.
But It is: Page 24/25
"If the PCs accepted Duristan’s offer to receive scar-wards against lycanthropy, he shows up at their rooms a few hours after they return to the lodge with the “witch,” a pretty young woman who looks suspiciously like a prostitute."And as there is only ONE prostitute here, its Niama. Also if you look at the amount of ppl in the lodge, there is on one else that would fullfill this role.
I don't really think so, that would have been mentioned in the adventure itself. After all, the PC's get the chance to visit both of the ladies.
But It is: Page 24/25
"If the PCs accepted Duristan’s offer to receive scar-wards against lycanthropy, he shows up at their rooms a few hours after they return to the lodge with the “witch,” a pretty young woman who looks suspiciously like a prostitute."And as there is only ONE prostitute here, its Niama. Also if you look at the amount of ppl in the lodge, there is on one else that would fullfill this role.
So, how do you explain the adventure not mentioning that Niama and that local girl are the same person? Not to forget that Niama is explictly called out as being Vudrani, which is very much not a local ethnicity.
Also, the text makes it clear that Madame Ivanja has several other prostitutes.
I don't really think so, that would have been mentioned in the adventure itself. After all, the PC's get the chance to visit both of the ladies.
But It is: Page 24/25
"If the PCs accepted Duristan’s offer to receive scar-wards against lycanthropy, he shows up at their rooms a few hours after they return to the lodge with the “witch,” a pretty young woman who looks suspiciously like a prostitute."And as there is only ONE prostitute here, its Niama. Also if you look at the amount of ppl in the lodge, there is on one else that would fullfill this role.
So, how do you explain the adventure not mentioning that Niama and that local girl are the same person? Not to forget that Niama is explictly called out as being Vudrani, which is very much not a local ethnicity.
Also, the text makes it clear that Madame Ivanja has several other prostitutes.
BM Page 14 "Currently, only one of Madame Ivanja’s courtesans is in residence at the lodge—a Vudrani woman named Niama."
Ah, okay, missed that line. Nonetheless, no direct correlation between the local prostitute girl and Niama is made. The adventure would normally mention of they were the same person.
Ah, okay, missed that line. Nonetheless, no direct correlation between the local prostitute girl and Niama is made. The adventure would normally mention of they were the same person.
Fair enought..however teh adventures arent really consistency check that well I have to say...
On the account of NPC connections between each other, I disagree.
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Honestly I think I'll just say Madame Ivanja has a cadre of simple prostitutes and her select choice of well trained courtesans. The prostitutes are likely utilized by the Lodge staff (especially the guards) and well to do servants of the visiting nobles rather than the nobility itself who prefer the more refined courtesans.
--Oo, Vrocksy Lady
Okay.
My party just fought Acrietia, (whom I called Acrietia of the Withering Palm;) and her wight acolytes... and they pretty much wrecked the paladin. He limped out of that situation with 5 negative levels.
+10/+10/+5/+10 is formidable, especially with flanking.
...That said, I reread the encounter afterwards and I triggered the fight early. The encounter says that the wights hide and let most of the party in before they cut off the exits and attack. That might have made the encounter easier with spreading the wights out.
However, in my defense, the party did send the paladin in ahead while hanging back outside (which I hadn't expected,) instead of moving in as a group.
So... as a GM, I advise to be a touch careful with this encounter. It is possible to mistakenly overdo things.
Yeah, I took a look at the encounter with Acrietia and pulled out the four Wights, put in a Witchfire. Acrietia died in one round from the Gunslinger just blasting her to pieces, the Witchfire wrecked a lot of havoc before going out.
Auren Vrood put up a very decent fight, since the party had to figure out that it would be better to dispel his magical defenses, instead of nibbling away at his Stoneskin-ed self. He was pretty much out of offensive spells anyway after eight rounds, so he did well. Got everybody sweating when he cast Circle of Death. ^^
He did have Protection from Energy ( Fire ) up, since I figured that he got reports back from his minions of the two full spellcasters in my group which love to explode things with Fireball. Made the fight quite harder. Oh, and I gave him Mirror Image on his spells memorized list, since that is in his spellbook, and every Wizard of any worth will have it cast during combat. Although in this case, it didn't help, since the Gunslinger blasted all the images away in one shot with his dragonbreath pistol.
when they spotted him they spellcrafted his effects and used dispel magic on the fly spell in effect
How did they cast Detect Magic on him without him noticing?
How did they specifically dispel Fly? They couldn't target his Fly spell specifically with Dispel Magic, it starts from highest lvl spells in effect (Stoneskin) then proceeds to lower, if that one fails.
And how did Sorcerer cast Maximized Fireballs? They use 6th lvl slots, whereas PCs should be 8th or 9th lvl.
I'd guess a lesser metamagic rod. Which is quite expensive at sixth level, but doable.
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How did they specifically dispel Fly? They couldn't target his Fly spell specifically with Dispel Magic, it starts from highest lvl spells in effect (Stoneskin) then proceeds to lower, if that one fails.
You can use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target. [...] You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.
Woah, nice. Must have skipped over that. But still, my point stands for other stuff.
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After looking at the map and the encounter, It looked pretty disappointing as a "Boss Fight" for the guy who has been causing problems for half the AP. I think I'm going to have to have the battles spill over and into one another somewhat, and try to have them take place in the streets of Feldgrau more as running battles without overwhelming the players.
I'm considering replacing one of his spells with Magic Jar for a final dramatic encounter.
Also going to replace his VIVIsection experiments with something more NECROmantic. They're going to have had their fill of vivisection from the second module, and Vrood is a Necromancer, for crying out loud.
I'm glad this thread exists, because I certainly don't want their first encounter with a powerful wizard to be anything other than terrifying.
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They did not use Detect magic, they used the skill spellcraft.
You can't use Spellcraft like that. To identify a spell as it's being cast you can use Spellcraft, but to identify a spell effect that is already in place you have to use Knowledge (arcana) and you have to be able to see the spell effect. In many cases you'll need detect magic to do that.
--Vrock, Paper Scissors
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I liked the fact that he had spent time dissecting small animals, it showed that he was placed there by some higher authority and that he was actually bored.
Yeah, I do like that element, I'm just kibitzing because as a Necromancer you'd think he'd be playing around with negative energy, rather than keeping things alive as he cuts them open. It also just seemed too repetitive of Grine's workshop, which I'm really going to play up the horror of.
I think this whole Feldgrau conversation just goes to show that everyone is playing a different game of D&D than everyone else. My group managed to fight the Hangman's Tree, then decided to skirt around Feldgrau, bypassing the internal encounters entirely and accidentally homing in on the end bosses (Acrietia and Vrood immediately afterwards,) while at 8th level. The Paladin has 7 negative levels out of a possible 8 after Vrood enervated him.
Also, just before they hit Feldgrau, I'd just barely managed to increase their wealth-by-level up to what 8th level should have, (Desna blessed them with gear and powered up weapons at the Stairs of the Moon,) to make up for the lackluster treasure take inherent in Trial of the Beast and the fact that they ended up missing a bunch of stuff in Harrowstone entirely. So they were lacking the kind of gear and buffs some parties seem to be managing, though their numbers are at last shored up.
So millage may vary, but Acrietia and her gang very nearly killed our paladin, and the fight with Vrood (still in progress,) is causing my players much stress.
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You are right and yes they did use Knowledge(arcana), he was flying in the air so took as the spell effect was easy to spot, then you can of course argue what is a spell effect? The effect of the spell or some kind of actual glow around the person or like a flaming weapon.They did not use Detect magic, they used the skill spellcraft.You can't use Spellcraft like that. To identify a spell as it's being cast you can use Spellcraft, but to identify a spell effect that is already in place you have to use Knowledge (arcana) and you have to be able to see the spell effect. In many cases you'll need detect magic to do that.
--Vrock, Paper Scissors
A lot of skills are free actions or not-an-action, but when assessing a situation you need an action cost, generally at least a move action to use Perception.
If there's anything that I find Players ignore more in Pathfinder it's action cost. They want to do everything AND get their spell or attacks in. If I had a nickel for everytime I had to explain a basic rule about how actions work I'd have dozens of dollars, LOL!
--Vrocking Grasp
No offense to Tim Hitchcock or anyone who worked on the adventure path, but am I the only one here who doesn't like Part Two: Ascanor Lodge? I mean its got great descriptions and an interesting cast, but it feels crammed and the book admits (AP #45, p.20) that this section of events runs on a "railroad".
I'm interested in other GM's own events they decided to add or possibly what alterations they made to make it less "railroady" for their group. Has anyone gone and expanded it out a little? Possibly added Rogief Yharloc (Rule of Fear, p.21) to arrive at the Lodge? Changed any characters out to include their own? Etc?
Many thanks in advance!
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No offense to Tim Hitchcock or anyone who worked on the adventure path, but am I the only one here who doesn't like Part Two: Ascanor Lodge? I mean its got great descriptions and an interesting cast, but it feels crammed and the book admits (AP #45, p.20) that this section of events runs on a "railroad".
I'm interested in other GM's own events they decided to add or possibly what alterations they made to make it less "railroady" for their group. Has anyone gone and expanded it out a little? Possibly added Rogief Yharloc (Rule of Fear, p.21) to arrive at the Lodge? Changed any characters out to include their own? Etc?
Many thanks in advance!
I'm right in that section right now. I'm running the PCs' investigations pretty free-form, allowing them to poke around however they wish. Stuff is going to start happening when it feels appropriate to me.
The key with a railroad-ish adventure section like this is to provide the players with the illusion of freedom, without letting them get off track. It can be a little tricky to pull off, especially with really creative players, but it's do-able without a lot of rewriting or adding stuff.
I do think that part of the adventure is kinda poorly put together in the book. I'm always having to flip back and forth between the NPC descriptions, the event descriptions, and the room descriptions for the Lodge. It's a little aggravating for me as a GM.
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I agree with Trinite, the layout of the chapter was my biggest source of frustration.
My party was off the rails before they even got through the front gates of the Lodge, so it's hard for me to judge its playability as written.
I think it's supposed to feel like a claustrophobic (ie. "crammed") murder mystery, with the twist that the werewolf is really a ghost, and the ghost is being controlled by a wizard (and he would've got away with it too, if it weren't for you nosy kids!). And I think it could succeed if a GM played up the atmosphere (for instance, I set mine during a howling hurricane which, coincidentally, kept the PCs trapped inside the Lodge), and the PCs acknowledged the needs of the genre and accepted a bit less control in the early stages.
But all in all, I'm glad to be past it and on to the werewolf jamboree.
The Lodge went pretty well for my group, though they heavily questioned the spider's lodgings and how it got out during it's attack. Basically just let them go as they wished, keep track of how much Estovion knows about them, and deal with it that way. The key is that you have to give them a reason to *want* to go to the temple--my players pointed out at one point that they knew that was the next stop but had no reason to go there.
Of course, that was before the deaths occurred.
As a somewhat related aside, they took on the Vilkacis in the shrine last night. Afterwards, I noted that it is noted as 9600 XP but CR 7--values that do not match. From the results of the fight (one character should have died, but since it was from the V leaving the body and the rage ending, I handwaved and allowed a stabilization check at -MAX; another in single digits, and a third pretty beat up), I decided to keep the XP and pretend it was a CR10. My guess is that was the intention.
The Lodge went pretty well for my group, though they heavily questioned the spider's lodgings and how it got out during it's attack. Basically just let them go as they wished, keep track of how much Estovion knows about them, and deal with it that way. The key is that you have to give them a reason to *want* to go to the temple--my players pointed out at one point that they knew that was the next stop but had no reason to go there.
Of course, that was before the deaths occurred.
As a somewhat related aside, they took on the Vilkacis in the shrine last night. Afterwards, I noted that it is noted as 9600 XP but CR 7--values that do not match. From the results of the fight (one character should have died, but since it was from the V leaving the body and the rage ending, I handwaved and allowed a stabilization check at -MAX; another in single digits, and a third pretty beat up), I decided to keep the XP and pretend it was a CR10. My guess is that was the intention.
I think the variant CR value/xp is based on if it's poseesing someone or not. Lodge wizard guy's CR combines, I think.
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I do think that part of the adventure is kinda poorly put together in the book. I'm always having to flip back and forth between the NPC descriptions, the event descriptions, and the room descriptions for the Lodge. It's a little aggravating for me as a GM.
While Windspirit has his own guide (and a very helpful one at that), I broke down and organized my own (Here). I will, however, not be using it. I seek to work on an "Ascanor Lodge: Expanded" version for myself. I don't know how well this will work out but I could work around to uploading the Expanded version if anyone is interested.
While Windspirit has his own guide (and a very helpful one at that), I broke down and organized my own (Here). I will, however, not be using it. I seek to work on an "Ascanor Lodge: Expanded" version for myself. I don't know how well this will work out but I could work around to uploading the Expanded version if anyone is interested.
nice like. Good Idea to integrate the starting attidute into the doc.
Am I missing something obvious? Does anybody at the Lodge actually know where the Stairs of the Moon are?
Duristan knows. See my GM Material under the NPC's.
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Am I missing something obvious? Does anybody at the Lodge actually know where the Stairs of the Moon are?Duristan knows. See my GM Material under the NPC's.
Gosh, is he the only one? I finally found where it says he knows. That's pretty obscure. I pretty much wrote him out of the story when the investigation started. He went off on a wolf hunt and never came back.
Ah, well. I just had Madame Ivanja be a Prince's Wolf working undercover. She pointed the PCs to the stairs after they established themselves as enemies of the WW and after they thwarted the vilkacis attack.
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I'd like to point out that my group was instantly wary of Estovian and his halfling porter. When the porter refused to let them in, a paladin in my group caught his evil alignment with detect evil. This put the entire group on high alert as they began their investigation and essentially fast forwarded the Ascanor section. They got back from the hunt with Duristan, met with Estovian, learned that he too was evil, and proceeded to ignore any of the werewolf tribe backstory in their attempts to figure out what evil thing this evil man was inevitably up to. Since he turned out to actually be up to evil things, the whole section felt artificial and forced. I tried to throw them off by having Corvin be evil as well and more disrespectful than usual, but they would not be dissuaded.
The porter shouldn't have detected as evil, since he has less than five Hit Dice.
As to detecting Estovion as evil: I would have gone ahead and had all of the guests detect as evil as well. That might have thrown them off. :) Or just change Estovion's alignment to Neutral. I don't really think you'd have to change his personality any to justify any of it.