Well there are some optional encounters listed at the end. Also party gets some significant XP for cleansing Harrowstone (1200 or 2400 XP, depending on the level of success).
I had no such trouble, my PCs were I think 100 XP above the 4th lvl by the end of the first chapter.
Where did you get those numbers from? O.o
Using medium progression (the assumed progression of Pathfinder APs) each character has to earn (after splitting every XP gain by 4) 2000 XP for level 2, 5000 XP for level 3 and 9000 XP for level 4.
See for yourself:
Ahh. Never heard of anyone doing that, so you confused me there. Yeah, it should be the same.
This happens often - for research XP, did you give them the XP for the DC they managed to beat, or also added the XP for lower DCs they beat?
Because if you didn't, that might be it, or your math is wrong somewhere. There is enough XP in the AP for them to reach 4th lvl by the end.
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For DMs who've finished this mod, I'm interested in how the battle with the animated scythe went, especially in parties w/o a greatsword-wielding/PA/Str-18 PC.
Hardness 10? Really?
With AC 18 & over 20 h.p., this means it'll take that 18 Str. PC some time as well, time for the scythe to crit...
And if everybody uses one-handed weapons, this could take forever...(Rogue, after scoring solid damage (10) and doing nothing to scythe, to Fighter) "Please tell me you took Power Attack."
"Umm..., I was going to take it next level." (Slinks off)Thanks.
I ruled that channeled positive energy bypassed the hardness on account they weren't disabling the the device so that it wasn't a threat, but were instead severing it's link to the spirit controlling it. I even allowed holy water splashed on it helped severe the link. Stressed the cleric, but didn't make it impossible.
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Added all the experience I could find in the AP and some of the random encounters I brought in and all I got was 43030 XP which brings the PCs to 15030 XP onto lvl 4, or 3757 XP onto lvl 4 if you were splitting them. Anyone else that got some other numbers I would be very happy if you posted em.
I came up with 9668 per person for a 5 man group.
So thats 48340 in total, divided by four its still not enough.I came up with 9668 per person for a 5 man group.
Added all the experience I could find in the AP and some of the random encounters I brought in and all I got was 43030 XP which brings the PCs to 15030 XP onto lvl 4, or 3757 XP onto lvl 4 if you were splitting them. Anyone else that got some other numbers I would be very happy if you posted em.
You should clear the total needed pretty easily if you either (a) increase the strength of some of the encounters (since you have 5) people and/or (b) use the random encounter chart on page 77.
I'm considering rolling for a random encounter whenever there's a scripted encounter - i.e., to see if something comes to investigate. My group will be slow advancement though, I think.
Having trouble getting the experience given in the AP to actually get them to lvl 4 by the end. Anyone else got the same issue?
Yeah, but my party went into the prison and would not leave. They also never got the 25DC knowledge checks. I just played the Splatter Man down, and told them to advance to level 4 once they completed the dungeon.
I ruled that channeled positive energy bypassed the hardness on account they weren't disabling the the device so that it wasn't a threat, but were instead severing it's link to the spirit controlling it. I even allowed holy water splashed on it helped severe the link. Stressed the cleric, but didn't make it impossible.For DMs who've finished this mod, I'm interested in how the battle with the animated scythe went, especially in parties w/o a greatsword-wielding/PA/Str-18 PC.
Hardness 10? Really?
With AC 18 & over 20 h.p., this means it'll take that 18 Str. PC some time as well, time for the scythe to crit...
And if everybody uses one-handed weapons, this could take forever...(Rogue, after scoring solid damage (10) and doing nothing to scythe, to Fighter) "Please tell me you took Power Attack."
"Umm..., I was going to take it next level." (Slinks off)Thanks.
My player (Harrowstone with 2 PCs! It's somehow working...) decided it was a good idea to grapple the scythe. She rolled well enough that I have this Inquisitor holding a haunted scythe around the handle while incorporeal hands are trying to wrestle it away from her.
Since we had no way of damaging it now she bashed it into the stone block over and over for a couple of minutes until it stopped moving.
"Quick, grab it!" has become a somehow valid tactic for dealing with animated objects. It worked on the flying straightjacket.
I seen to be running into problem with my group. Their only divine character is a bard and they have yet to defeat a single haunt "sans Father Charlatan by luck of will saves". And they currently have no magical weapons so they ghosts are nigh impossible. They do have a sorcerer so I foresee him doing all the leg work for those. They've cleared the first floor and most of the second, and I believe they're now deciding how to go downstairs. Does anyone have any advice on how to "help" them?
I seen to be running into problem with my group. Their only divine character is a bard and they have yet to defeat a single haunt "sans Father Charlatan by luck of will saves". And they currently have no magical weapons so they ghosts are nigh impossible. They do have a sorcerer so I foresee him doing all the leg work for those. They've cleared the first floor and most of the second, and I believe they're now deciding how to go downstairs. Does anyone have any advice on how to "help" them?
The crypt the professor broke into has magical arrows. They count as magical weapons, and they can be used as daggers with a -4 penalty to attack rolls.
Good evening. Do you think a Groetus inquisitor in this campaign would be possible given the limited information revolving around this dark god? I made a character in that, but I feel that the Inquisition did not make much sense with this deity with an apparent lack of real dogmas. Do you have any suggestions or advice for me?
I seen to be running into problem with my group. Their only divine character is a bard and they have yet to defeat a single haunt "sans Father Charlatan by luck of will saves". And they currently have no magical weapons so they ghosts are nigh impossible. They do have a sorcerer so I foresee him doing all the leg work for those. They've cleared the first floor and most of the second, and I believe they're now deciding how to go downstairs. Does anyone have any advice on how to "help" them?The crypt the professor broke into has magical arrows. They count as magical weapons, and they can be used as daggers with a -4 penalty to attack rolls.
I forgot about those. Our ranger has them, but I don't believe anyone else has thought to use them as daggers yet. I'll have them make an int check next time.
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I ruled that channeled positive energy bypassed the hardness on account they weren't disabling the the device so that it wasn't a threat, but were instead severing it's link to the spirit controlling it. I even allowed holy water splashed on it helped severe the link. Stressed the cleric, but didn't make it impossible.For DMs who've finished this mod, I'm interested in how the battle with the animated scythe went, especially in parties w/o a greatsword-wielding/PA/Str-18 PC.
Hardness 10? Really?
With AC 18 & over 20 h.p., this means it'll take that 18 Str. PC some time as well, time for the scythe to crit...
And if everybody uses one-handed weapons, this could take forever...(Rogue, after scoring solid damage (10) and doing nothing to scythe, to Fighter) "Please tell me you took Power Attack."
"Umm..., I was going to take it next level." (Slinks off)Thanks.
I did the same since the rule about damaging object and hardness are:
Vulnerability to Certain Attacks
Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.
And
Energy Attacks
Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and may ignore the object's hardness.
Because let's not forget that the Scythe is HAUNTED and is considered as an undead.
But Yes, I do think that this encounter is kind of strange, and in my opinion, a Haunt affecting the Scythe would have been better (and a lot clearer for DMs on how to give your players a chance).
I've read the previously reported incongruences/errors/doubts about Ectoplasmic Creatures, but one thing hasn't been covered.
The template says: "Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Cha. An ectoplasmic creature has no Con or Int score, and its Wis and Cha become 10."
Well, does it mean that ist Cha effectively becomes 12 (then why not write it simply?) or is the "+2 Cha" an error that was meant to be something else (like a +2 Dex)?
Not to mention that while James Jacobs said they've been created to be mindless undead, their descriptive text speaks of them as thinking creatures with a wish to kill and be killed, and even states "While of average intelligence, ectoplasmic beings rarely coordinate complicated actions with their brethren, only strategizing when it benefits them to attack victims stealthily."
They would really need a complete revision.
So my players have started investigating and learned quite a bit about the prison, the Whispering Way and a few of the 5 inmates. However what they're puzzled about is why the professor wasn't more direct in asking them to take up his work, seeming more concerned about his borrowed books and taking care of his daughter (which of course implies saving town when events from the prison unfolds). If he feared the threat to Ravengro would be dire, and he was quite specific in his journal that the WW must not finish, why didn't he let anyone else know?
I'm inclined to make the professor slightly insane, and thus not thinking rationally, but I'm open to other ideas.
Really enjoying this so far! Lots of good roleplaying from my two players. :)
My player bypassed the majority of the mysterious circumstances by storming the castle within the first five days. Because there's only two PCs I started them at level 2 so they wouldn't end up killed by a house cat.
Because I kept rolling '4's the Splatter Man started off slow. He only ever got V and E written.
So I've got three weeks to kill in town before the month is up. There never was a town hall meeting so the town has no reason to reward anyone for anything. I was only able to hit Ravengro with a couple of odd happenings before the end, the town never had any reason to suspect ghosts. They all still suspect those weird PCs.
On the other hand, my player stole the legal papers out of the safe and now holds the deed to Harrowstone. The town council has no idea what to think.
But, yeah, one Inquisitor of Calistra and one Summoner had no trouble with Harrowstone. The cache of things helped.
Let's see how the Trial goes...
I'm inclined to make the professor slightly insane, and thus not thinking rationally, but I'm open to other ideas.
As I see it, no need for odd reasons here. He hadn't that many friends in Ravengro, as can be seen from the very beginning of the adventure. Those suitable for the task of resolving the matter, among his friends, were apparently solely the PCs, which he mentioned in his testament. But, as is written, he hadn't time to update it after he learned of the Whispering Way's doings, as he probably was all caught on researching and investigating in haste. So, he also hadn't time to contact his PC friends (or he just thought that it would take them too long to arrive to be of any help). Thus, in the end, he had no time and in some way to one to tell the tale to. About Kendra, he obviously wouldn't want her worried, or worse, involved.
As I see it, no need for odd reasons here. He hadn't that many friends in Ravengro, as can be seen from the very beginning of the adventure. Those suitable for the task of resolving the matter, among his friends, were apparently solely the PCs, which he mentioned in his testament. But, as is written, he hadn't time to update it after he learned of the Whispering Way's doings, as he probably was all caught on researching and investigating in haste. So, he also hadn't time to contact his PC friends (or he just thought that it would take them too long to arrive to be of any help). Thus, in the end, he had no time and in some way to one to tell the tale to. About Kendra, he obviously wouldn't want her worried, or worse, involved.
I'm inclined to make the professor slightly insane, and thus not thinking rationally, but I'm open to other ideas.
Thanks, this fits more or less with the story. However the professor still managed to write his will (apparently just a few days before he died, but maybe I'm mistaken) without giving clear direction to the PCs aside from "take care of my daughter and deliver these books."
Of course the goal is to have the PCs focus on Harrowstone first, and track down the WW later, but my players and I got the impression that the professor felt the WW must be stopped, but didn't really do anything about it (except investigating by himself and leaving his journal for the PCs).
Thanks, this fits more or less with the story. However the professor still managed to write his will (apparently just a few days before he died, but maybe I'm mistaken) without giving clear direction to the PCs aside from "take care of my daughter and deliver these books."
Of course the goal is to have the PCs focus on Harrowstone first, and track down the WW later, but my players and I got the impression that the professor felt the WW must be stopped, but didn't really do anything about it (except investigating by himself and leaving his journal for the PCs).
My players made the assumption that the professor's primary motive was to protect his daughter. I think that's also probably true. I just made it so that his will was made very recently, a few days before he died. He was concerned he was getting into something over his head but his desire to make sure his daughter is protected (by bringing in some rough-n-ready figures who can protect her in his absence). That's his primary motivation but he also, just before going to try and stop the Way, put the clues in for them - trusting that they would be able to work it out if they tried.
But again: Kendra = Protected was his final motive and consuming desire.
Addendum: My players were really concerned by the idea that the professor was worried enough to ask them to stay with his daughter which they thought (and is) a very unusual request. Given that at the beginning of the adventure they have almost no information beyond a few cryptic clues.
As easy as it is for us to assume that he should have prepared in a more rational manner before going to his death I think that's a mistake. This is a man who was quickly getting in over his head - I imagine in his last days he must have been a bit of an anxious wreck. Especially as he is trying to avoid alarming his daughter and has few friends in town.
(Although I did make Councilwoman Mirta Straelock an ex-girlfriend of his - it didn't work out due to his obsession with his studies. But they were always close afterwards.)
My group went the way of "We must stop the WW!" and went to Harrowstone the second day.
stuffThanks, this fits more or less with the story. However the professor still managed to write his will (apparently just a few days before he died, but maybe I'm mistaken) without giving clear direction to the PCs aside from "take care of my daughter and deliver these books."
Of course the goal is to have the PCs focus on Harrowstone first, and track down the WW later, but my players and I got the impression that the professor felt the WW must be stopped, but didn't really do anything about it (except investigating by himself and leaving his journal for the PCs).
Thanks, both your and AW's posts helped clear the issue.
Now to see how my 2 PC gestalt party will progress further.^^
A doubt fogs my mind.
The Splatter Man's tactics entry states that once consumed all his Magic Missiles he'll take from his pit the weapons he once stole from Warden Hawkran to hurl them at his foes using Hand of the Apprentice.
Troubles are:
1) Hand of the Apprentice allows to throw a weapon the Wizard is already wielding, and the Splatter Man cannot wield any of those weapons. He is a Ghost, and they don't have the Ghost Touch ability.
Said that a GM can, of course, do anything he wishes with the rules, I never like when something breaks the written rules in such ways, so does anyone have ideas on another similar strategy to use by staying in the rules or any other thing that is more legit?
2) Minor issue, the Splatter Man is not proficient with all those weapons, so, from a mere logic view (read: ignoring the game-fact that the PCs could already be in great trouble while fighting him, even without additional difficulties), he would better use the old "hide-in-the-wall and strike with Corrupting Touch" strategy.
1. Are the Haunt Siphons only meant to work during the surprise round a haunt manifests? The wording seems like it could be interpreted like that, but who walks around with one in their hand at all times?
2. Is there no other way to escape from Father Charlatan's haunt other than "winning" the a long series of will saves?
(My group would have TPKed because of it had it not been for a modified Heropoint/Harrow-card system we use).
3. Should the unconscious character in #2 continue to make will saves after his/her hitpoints fall below 0?
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Said stuff
A) I honestly think those comments were put in if your party decides to turtle like mad, because when we ran it, and I thought they took forever, he didn't come close to having to use those tactics.
1) You can wield anything you decide to pick up, so that's not really a rules issue, more of a common sense one when you add in...
2) Being not proficient with those items, his attack roll would not be the greatest. So yes, a corrupting touch would be more prudent, but not the way Splatterman thinks as written, but you're the GM so edit as pleased.
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1) You can wield anything you decide to pick up, so that's not really a rules issue, more of a common sense one when you add in...
But, as said, the Splatter Man is totally unable to pick up those weapons. He can lift and move them with Mage Hand, but that is not wielding. Again, of course a GM can bend any rule to his or her will, but personally I don't like much doing that.
What is the deal with this thread? It's a sticky, so it seems important, but going through it it seems like one threadjack after another - Splatterman tactics, XP accounting, Lorrimors motives....
I mean - a lot of good stuff here, but wouldn't this be more concise and easier to find if there were several threads?
Stuff
For people to ask questions that can be answered by either other DMs/Players or the Devs.
What is the deal with this thread?
The GM Reference threads are great places to look for GMs who want to see where other groups had problems so we can then decide if we are likely to run into the same things and fix them if necessary (others on the thread have often already offered up advice on how to do so).
They are invaluable to me while running APs. I use them a LOT.
Sean Mahoney
Splatterman tactics, XP accounting, Lorrimors motives...
That's what this thread is for. As many good ideas get bandied around in these threads by the threadjacks as you'll find in the written adventures. And it's all in one place so I don't have to comb the archives for thoroughly genius ideas I don't even know about yet.
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Ah - A general repository for GM information. I agree - a lot of useful stuff here, just wondered about the format. I guess I'm just a "one thread per subject" kinda guy! :-)
Carry on --- Just ran my fist HoH session last night, so I'm sure I'll be back!
I ruled that channeled positive energy bypassed the hardness on account they weren't disabling the the device so that it wasn't a threat, but were instead severing it's link to the spirit controlling it. I even allowed holy water splashed on it helped severe the link. Stressed the cleric, but didn't make it impossible.For DMs who've finished this mod, I'm interested in how the battle with the animated scythe went, especially in parties w/o a greatsword-wielding/PA/Str-18 PC.
Hardness 10? Really?
With AC 18 & over 20 h.p., this means it'll take that 18 Str. PC some time as well, time for the scythe to crit...
And if everybody uses one-handed weapons, this could take forever...(Rogue, after scoring solid damage (10) and doing nothing to scythe, to Fighter) "Please tell me you took Power Attack."
"Umm..., I was going to take it next level." (Slinks off)Thanks.
I also ruled that channel energy bypassed hardness. Since hardness is a physical protection, I didn't see why it would help against channel energy and this particular animated object had haunt weaknesses.
Thanks, this fits more or less with the story. However the professor still managed to write his will (apparently just a few days before he died, but maybe I'm mistaken) without giving clear direction to the PCs aside from "take care of my daughter and deliver these books."
In my mind the will was written some time ago. He knew he had these books and whenever he died they would need to be returned. And he knew whenever he died he wanted to make sure his daughter was ok. At the end all he had time for was to write the journal and circle the entries. He didn't think he was going to get killed, or he would have written more explicit notes. In a rush and overconfident. I also played him as quite fast moving in his thinking -- the kind of person who assumes the listener has a lot more knowledge than is the case. All the PCs had prior experiences with the Prof along those lines. They were always struggling to figure out what the heck he was talking about. So, in the Prof's mind, he probably thought he left really clear instructions...
I put this as a separate thread (which I can't figure out how to delete), but I'm realizing the best thing is to post all GM queries for the Harrowstone module here, so I'm restating my question here.
Here's my question: My players may soon be finding the five prisoner's special items and I know the wizard in my party will want to know which are magical and if so, what schools of magic. How have you handled this? It seems like in a sense only the Lopper's axe is magical, but, on the other hand, all the items have magical effects. Would you say that all are magical and if so what school(s) of magic?
Also, it seems like the vault is not hidden behind sufficient stone to block a detect magic spell, so detect magic cast in the supply room would reveal the objects behind the wall, right?
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I put this as a separate thread (which I can't figure out how to delete), but I'm realizing the best thing is to post all GM queries for the Harrowstone module here, so I'm restating my question here.
Here's my question: My players may soon be finding the five prisoner's special items and I know the wizard in my party will want to know which are magical and if so, what schools of magic. How have you handled this? It seems like in a sense only the Lopper's axe is magical, but, on the other hand, all the items have magical effects. Would you say that all are magical and if so what school(s) of magic?
Also, it seems like the vault is not hidden behind sufficient stone to block a detect magic spell, so detect magic cast in the supply room would reveal the objects behind the wall, right?
My initial thought running from memory about the items would be Necromancy, and would make sure to remind the players that necromancy means life magic, positive or negative.
1. Are the Haunt Siphons only meant to work during the surprise round a haunt manifests? The wording seems like it could be interpreted like that, but who walks around with one in their hand at all times?
2. Is there no other way to escape from Father Charlatan's haunt other than "winning" the a long series of will saves?
(My group would have TPKed because of it had it not been for a modified Heropoint/Harrow-card system we use).3. Should the unconscious character in #2 continue to make will saves after his/her hitpoints fall below 0?
1. No. It can be used at any time within a haunt's area of influence, whether the haunt has activated or not.
2. It can be destroyed by positive energy just like any other haunt, and has further vulnerabilities as listed under 'weaknesses' in the description.
3. It continues until the haunt is defeated or the PC dies, as indicated in the description.
Scythe was no problem for my players - the monk was able to "pin" it to the floor, whilst the rest of the party administered the beat down.
Running a large party? I have a group of six, so I decided id do a Diablo esque skeleton re-gen out of the lake on the right of Harrowstone. Had the courtyard gates slam shut and lock too.
Threw about 20 skeles at them in two waves of 10 (who's counting I use story award XP...lol) and then backed off. I think if they are having a too easy time I'll just keep having the lake spawn undead - I figure there had to be at least a hundred prisoners in the collapsed section, so the story rationale is there too.
Also also, did you guys reward the whole party the full listed XP for the knowledge topics or a 1/n split of the XP? Its not clear in the volume, and splitting it may be why my party was still 600xp from level 2 when they arrived at Harrowstone (mind you they didn't to the gibs quest {100xp}, the tomb {50xp}, or the burning town hall {its not day 15 yet}).For story awards, things like knowledge and such, I have been giving that to the entire party as opposed to combat xp.
I'm confused by this exchange. Aren't all experience points earned to be divided among the various party members? That is, if you have four players and defeat a monster worth 400 xp, each player gets 100 xp. Am I missing something? I've been dividing up all the experience and the players are just barely at second level now that they are entering Harrowstone, so it seems right so far.
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My initial thought running from memory about the items would be Necromancy, and would make sure to remind the players that necromancy means life magic, positive or negative.I put this as a separate thread (which I can't figure out how to delete), but I'm realizing the best thing is to post all GM queries for the Harrowstone module here, so I'm restating my question here.
Here's my question: My players may soon be finding the five prisoner's special items and I know the wizard in my party will want to know which are magical and if so, what schools of magic. How have you handled this? It seems like in a sense only the Lopper's axe is magical, but, on the other hand, all the items have magical effects. Would you say that all are magical and if so what school(s) of magic?
Also, it seems like the vault is not hidden behind sufficient stone to block a detect magic spell, so detect magic cast in the supply room would reveal the objects behind the wall, right?
I am going with the following:
For the items that are magical even after the haunt is defeated, then they detect as magic, and if identified have characteristics and properties of the final state of the item. ie you can't tell the loppers axe is effectively ghost touch, as that isn't one of its actual properties.
They all also have a necromantic aura, but they are unable to discern more about it then that. That aura comes from bestow curse, as they are all effectively cursed. All the items are also detectable by detect evil.
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I'm confused by this exchange. Aren't all experience points earned to be divided among the various party members? That is, if you have four players and defeat a monster worth 400 xp, each player gets 100 xp. Am I missing something? I've been dividing up all the experience and the players are just barely at second level now that they are entering Harrowstone, so it seems right so far.
Sounds right to me.
How has the module timeline been working out for people? After 3 days/nights, I ran all the encounters in Ravengro and the players did a most of the research. Presumably they'll take some time with Harrowstone, since the cleric will be burning through her channel energies and will need to rest overnight to recover...
(On that note, have people had parties try to rest overnight in the prison? How have you discouraged that?)
In any event, it does seem likely the party may finish with 2 weeks to spare. The trip to Ravengro is 100 miles. How many days does that take?
Technically Lorrimor wants the party to stay for 30 days, although I suppose Kendra could give the party leave, or she could request to accompany them to Lepidstadt. Has anyone taken that approach?