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The wording in the core rule book says that if you are allowed to act during the surprise round, you may take a standard or a move action (plus free actions).
How do swift actions work? Can you only take one instead of your standard or move action, or in addition to it?
Thanks
The wording in the core rule book says that if you are allowed to act during the surprise round, you may take a standard or a move action (plus free actions).
How do swift actions work? Can you only take one instead of your standard or move action, or in addition to it?
Thanks
I've always played it counting as essentially a full round.
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3.5 did not allow you to trade other actions for swift actions. One swift action a round was the rule.
Hmmm...
So I guess there are potentially two questions:
1. Can you perform a swift action in addition to your standard or move action during a surprise round?
and
2. If you cannot, would you be able to perform a swift action instead of your standard or move action?
Is there any consensus on this issue, or is it just something each group needs to decide for themselves?
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The rules are vague on this. However the only difference between a free action and a swift action is that it consumes more energy so you can only take one, but it consumes the same amount of time.
Swift ActionsA swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
And given that you can take a swift action whenever you can take a free action, I would say yes.
The Surprise Round:If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Shoga, do you have any citations for your statement regarding Free Actions? If we followed your statement then it would mean that an archer cannot fire more than 2 arrows per round. It also means that people with quickdraw would be limited to 2 drawn weapons per round.
Simply put, there is no actual rule limiting the number of free actions. There is a vague statement where the GM should put the brakes on the number of free actions if it gets ridiculous. Specifically, speaking should be limited to a sentence or two as a free action.
- Gauss
My 2 cents:
No!
You get ONE standard action and 1-2 free actions.
This can be 'downgraded' to ONE move, or ONE swift.
Makes for nicer roleplay.
"Look out, he said, while moving out of the way of the boulder."
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Found this little gem, here's a RAW reference that will make things as clear as mud:
Ambush - At 4th level, a bandit becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When she acts in the surprise round, she can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Emphasis mine.
I would call that proof that you can't take a swift during a surprise round, but that's just me.
My personal interpretation is that you can take your standard/move action and a swift action during the round. That's at least how we play it in the two rounds I am in ( with two completely different sets of players, aside from myself ).
The bandit ambush ability allows you to take all three during a single surprise round ("and", not "or").
Any other character has to choose between standard and move, but gets to add a free action (which can be swift, as Knoebel pointed out).
I must admit that until I read Knoebel's post, I was in the "no swift actions" camp.
You do have a point there.. And it would seem odd if a spellcaster could cast both a quickened spell and a regular spell during a surprise round.
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In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round's worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free and swift actions as normal). You can't take a full-round action (though you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action; see below).
To me, the above "restricted activity" section is exactly what a surprise round is, and the bolded section tells me that you should get a swift action on a round that you only get a single standard or move action.
Also, the concept of downgrading anything to a swift action is something that I believe came from 4th edition. I, personally, have been allowing it for my current campaign as I unintentionally house-ruled it for the first half of the game and don't want to change it. It is, however, not the rules as written and I won't allow it in the future.
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Alcomus, the presence of an enabling line should not be taken as proof that you could not do that thing. ESPECIALLY when something else clearly states you can do it. Just look at the Prone Shooter feat sometime. Before they FAQ'd it it granted something that everyone already had.
MechE is correct, you can take a swift action in addition to a standard or a move action during a surprise round.
- Gauss
I love being able to cast a quickened spell and a regular spell in the surprise round. My battle cleric builds are based upon that concept (about level 9: quickened Divine Favor and then cast Righteous Might, start killing next round).
- Gauss
My 2 cents:
No!
You get ONE standard action and 1-2 free actions.
This can be 'downgraded' to ONE move, or ONE swift.
I'm not sure I'd trade a plug nickel for your "2 cents". In other words, it's wrong.
There is no limit of "1-2 free actions". It is suggested that a GM can limit free actions, but that is up to the GM; there is no rule for it.
And while a standard action can be swapped for a move action (but not the other way around), no action can be swapped for a swift action.
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Found this little gem, here's a RAW reference that will make things as clear as mud:
Ambush - At 4th level, a bandit becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When she acts in the surprise round, she can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.Emphasis mine.
I would call that proof that you can't take a swift during a surprise round, but that's just me.
This is an all-too-common error on these forums.
There MUST be a rule somewhere. Game rules are not about reading 20 books and 100 supplements and memorizing every page to find some little call out in some obscure archetype that casually mentions a core mechanic that we're all expected to know and follow.
That's not game design. That isn't even design. Or game.
This "little gem" is an offhand reference that some dev added, more as fluff than anything else. The bolded part clarifies that this flavor of rogue can take a Move AND Standard action in the surprise round. In the first bit it mentions Swift actions, in the second bit it doesn't, but this is more likely just unclear writing than an actual stab at creating a core mechanic for the game.
Why?
Because no sane, intelligent developer would expect that a fluff description of a class ability of a corner-case archetype of one class in an optional source book is the correct place to define core game mechanics.
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Note to DM Blake - the people you're arguing with haven't posted in this thread in two years. I don't disagree with your points, though.
Found this little gem, here's a RAW reference that will make things as clear as mud:
Ambush - At 4th level, a bandit becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When she acts in the surprise round, she can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.Emphasis mine.
I would call that proof that you can't take a swift during a surprise round, but that's just me.
This is an all-too-common error on these forums.
There MUST be a rule somewhere. Game rules are not about reading 20 books and 100 supplements and memorizing every page to find some little call out in some obscure archetype that casually mentions a core mechanic that we're all expected to know and follow.
That's not game design. That isn't even design. Or game.
This "little gem" is an offhand reference that some dev added, more as fluff than anything else. The bolded part clarifies that this flavor of rogue can take a Move AND Standard action in the surprise round. In the first bit it mentions Swift actions, in the second bit it doesn't, but this is more likely just unclear writing than an actual stab at creating a core mechanic for the game.
Why?
Because no sane, intelligent developer would expect that a fluff description of a class ability of a corner-case archetype of one class in an optional source book is the correct place to define core game mechanics.
This doesn't look to me like they're defining it, just restating the rules about a surprise round which state that you can only take a move action or standard action plus free actions:
The Surprise Round:
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Yeah, Knoebel pretty much solved the rules question, so there's nothing more to be done with the thread. Well, beyond stuff like arguing against that one guy who limited things to one free action a round.
Note to DM Blake - the people you're arguing with haven't posted in this thread in two years. I don't disagree with your points, though.
Hah!
I didn't even check the dates; I guess the necromancer raised the zombie and it bit me - soon I'll be a zombie tarrasque...
There is no zombie tarrasque.
I regenerate from the dead, alive and well, no zombification, and therefore cannot become undead. Or if I did, it would be for only a round or two.
I eat core monks as appetizers for the main course. Of course.
This doesn't look to me like they're defining it, just restating the rules about a surprise round which state that you can only take a move action or standard action plus free actions:
Now please find the rule in the CRB where it talks about when you can take swift actions. :) it's in there - then match it up with this - and then you have what the rules actually are about whether you can take a swift during a surprise round or not.