paizo.com Recent Posts in Return to Nihilitypaizo.com Recent Posts in Return to Nihility2011-03-11T15:41:11Z2011-03-11T15:41:11ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityAsk A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#342011-03-23T17:23:43Z2011-03-23T17:23:43Z<p>Dear Mr. Coffelt,
<br />
Congratulations on reaching the top four. I've been looking over your previous presentations in this contest, and I find that you gave us a potential dimensional bomb, the houndmaster, a Highly Acceptable ambitious minor warlord (who Gives Demons Their Due Respect), and an industrial site nonetheless conveniently located for the delivery of groceries. Since the release of the Deacon of Ash presentation, my scribe has come upon a (currently) rare tome which describes these relic-organs you mentioned. I'm not clear that any kind of 'unholy' ritual using one would much discomfort Arazni - perhaps one involving kittens and flower petals and holy water, but it seems an unholy one might just strengthen her. Just to be clear, though, I am <i>not</i> advising anyone to act against the co-ruler of Geb here, or at least not without making some sort of arrangement for the disposal of their soul in the hereafter with a friendly glabrezu broker first. There are several offering Quite Good Deals at present, with Fast Track Promotion from larva status. You might even be allowed to retain a few of your memories such as of the embarrassingly silly thing you did which landed you in such a position in the first place.
<br />
Anyway, you made the it to the top four and the voters have now spoken, and they've decided that they'd rather you write stuff for Pathfinder Society than produce a module based on this proposal. Or something like that. So it's time to pull the dust-covers over Venlor (at least for now) and to try something else. Will the Shory fly again? Only time will tell...
<br />
Hoping that you have found this post and all My others Particularly Helpful... </p>
<p>Yours, </p>
<p>Ask A RPGSupersuccubus.</p>Dear Mr. Coffelt,
Congratulations on reaching the top four. I've been looking over your previous presentations in this contest, and I find that you gave us a potential dimensional bomb, the houndmaster, a Highly Acceptable ambitious minor warlord (who Gives Demons Their Due Respect), and an industrial site nonetheless conveniently located for the delivery of groceries. Since the release of the Deacon of Ash presentation, my scribe has come upon a (currently) rare tome which describes these...Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)2011-03-23T17:23:43ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityErik Randallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#332011-03-22T03:38:28Z2011-03-22T03:38:28Z<p>I definitely want to give a "me too" to Matt's praise on the writing. It grabbed me in the first paragraph.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Cody Coffelt wrote:</div><blockquote>While covered in the old king’s blood he traveled into the dark heart of the city. Deep within the Aeromantic Infandibulum he tore free the staff of rightful rule. He returned with staff in hand, declaring himself king, and beginning a chain of events that would bring two worlds into collision.</blockquote><p>Nice visuals, very active (he didn't just claim the staff, he tore it free) and you ended the paragraph with some tension. I want to find out what the chain of events are when I read that.I definitely want to give a "me too" to Matt's praise on the writing. It grabbed me in the first paragraph.
Cody Coffelt wrote:While covered in the old king’s blood he traveled into the dark heart of the city. Deep within the Aeromantic Infandibulum he tore free the staff of rightful rule. He returned with staff in hand, declaring himself king, and beginning a chain of events that would bring two worlds into collision.
Nice visuals, very active (he didn't just claim the staff, he tore it...Erik Randall2011-03-22T03:38:28ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityMatt Goodallhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#322012-07-18T23:29:55Z2011-03-22T01:29:10Z<p>Hey Cody,</p>
<p>I really love the feel of your adventure the whole H.G. Wells ‘The Time Machine’ beautiful city (and a flying city, which I’m a fan of) with the devolved inhabitants. I have to admit when I read ‘similar to a sentient <i>sphere of annihilation</i>’ it threw me, 4th level PCs can handle this? But everyone has already mentioned this.</p>
<p>The other thing that struck me was that the location was basically the same as Crucible of Chaos. I wouldn’t have minded a Shory city, they are in canon as having flying cites after all. But giving it pretty much the same structure as Crucible of Chaos (staff of rightful rule, Aeromantic Infandibulum, invisible bridges made of force), makes it feel like homage. Golarion is relatively new as a campaign world; I don’t think we really need that yet. There are whole countries that don’t even have a single adventure set in them. </p>
<p>I found your plot was direct, which should keep the PCs on track and I liked the logical sequence of events, especially the interesting side quests the wizard Gek gives them. Your writing still flows well. </p>
<p>Good luck in the voting.</p>Hey Cody,
I really love the feel of your adventure the whole H.G. Wells ‘The Time Machine’ beautiful city (and a flying city, which I’m a fan of) with the devolved inhabitants. I have to admit when I read ‘similar to a sentient sphere of annihilation’ it threw me, 4th level PCs can handle this? But everyone has already mentioned this.
The other thing that struck me was that the location was basically the same as Crucible of Chaos. I wouldn’t have minded a Shory city, they are in canon as...Matt Goodall2011-03-22T01:29:10ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityAsk A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#312011-03-20T23:13:15Z2011-03-20T23:13:15Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>(edited, tweaked a little for formatting and better phrasing)</span>
<br />
<span class=messageboard-ooc>Disclaimer:
<br />
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus provides the much needed viewpoint of a CE aligned (very advanced) succubus. The following review pays assiduous attention to fairness, balance, and logic. That said, these are Abyssal notions of those concepts, wheretofore today ‘fairness’ is an installation commonly employed by someone with an over-the-top posh accent for smelting metals or toasting lightly flammable enemies, ‘balance’ is a small blue furry creature with a penchant for snacking upon ninjas, and logic is a special form of magic which irrefutably proves a succubus is always right. </span> </p>
<p><span class=tiny> For the purpose of reviewing this proposal, I shall consider the quartet of adventurous succubi Anthea, Byrria, Cynthia and Daria to be in the area. Whilst it is at least unwise (if not outright foolish) to take any succubus for granted, I am sufficiently familiar with the four of them to be certain of their likely general reactions to any circumstance detailed here. As a matter of good manners, here are a few details regarding the four:</span>
<br />
<b>Anthea: </b>[Spoiler omitted]
<br />
<b>Byrria: </b>[Spoiler omitted]
<br />
<b>Cynthia: </b>[Spoiler omitted]
<br />
<b>Daria: </b>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p><b>Anthea, Byrria, Cynthia, and Daria are either in or travelling through the area for the purpose of shopping expedition. How likely are the initial events presented to interest them and if not sufficiently enticing what might it take to engage their involvement? </b>
<br />
Fortunately succubi are nothing if not infinitely charming and resourceful (besides being able to read the surface thoughts of a creature and able to communicate telepathically). Weird creatures (of a variety such as the ne'er) dropping out of the sky that are simply inquisitive are no trouble for a succubus to handle, although much less fortunate beings might well be in for a world of misunderstanding and hurt.
<br />
All that said, the couple of ne'er that Anthea, Byrria, Cynthia and Daria question aren't likely to be able to say much of use about the <i>current</i> situation. Whilst doubtless able to describe how members of their race have come into existence in the area around the city for generations, and their conflicts with the people of that city (who are unable to understand them) they aren't likely to have much idea why a rift tore open and the city dropped out of the place where it had been for so long.
<br />
Flying up to investigate the rift, the succubi may be able to conclude that a demiplane exists on the other side, and perhaps to converse with other ne'er, but that's not likely to cast much light on things either, unless there are some powerful ne'er sages around which the presentation hasn't referred to.
<br />
At this point the question is as to what the succubi do next? The description that the ne'er may be able to give of their race's interactions with the inhabitants of the city will make it clear that some sort of military regime could be in charge in Venlor, and the scouting parties of mongrelmen being led by morlocks out into the surrounding countryside will certainly speak of this. Debris from the city and contributions from Byrria and Daria are likely to identify the city as being a relic of Shory. If any mongrelmen or morlocks are taken and questioned, they will know of (and disclose) the arrival of a new king in power.
<br />
The situation has the appearance (to the four succubi) of a violent and deliberate invasion of a part of the material plane by a Shory city under a new and expansionist ruler following a long period of quieter ambitions under other rulers somewhere else. Whilst Anthea is a martial enthusiast, Byrria, Cynthia, and Daria <i>aren't</i> and the notion of trying to virtually single-handed fight a violent militaristic city on a war-footing for any possible reward is unlikely to appeal to the latter three. That's the situation as they'll see it, and they won't be prepared to risk their necks in any kind of personal investigation of Venlor on the off-chance that the situation is any less critical than it seems. At this point if asked by the local authorities (who saw the way they negotiated with the ne'er) for advice, the group consensus is likely to be for the locals to fort up and prepare for a siege, whilst messages are sent to the capital of whatever land they happen to be in (assuming it's not a devil ruled country) appealing for urgent military assistance.
<br />
Although the group consensus will be against directly taking on Venlor, given Anthea's enthusiasm for martial stuff the four will hang around for what does happen next (unless the country is devil-run, in which case they're simply likely to scoot). </p>
<p><b>So just what is likely to happen once four succubi <i>do</i> get involved? </b>
<br />
They're likely very much on the periphery, except in terms of any ongoing negotiations with ne'er, for the majority of the time. Daria will do her best to bolster the spirits and/or morale of the locals whilst they wait for what approximates to a national army to arrive. The four may assist with interrogations of any prisoners, but given that Venlor officers and soldiers are apparently loyalists to the crown any information which emerges about the true state of affairs in the city is likely one-sided and distorted at best.
<br />
Anthea may be able to gain additional support for any military campaign via her connections with the church of Gorum.
<br />
Once the national army (or equivalent) arrives and does its job, the succubi will be happy to pick over the ruins of the city for anything of interest that they're allowed to take for being so helpful. </p>
<p><b>What about the aftermath? </b>
<br />
It's unclear what happens to the planar rift if the city doesn't go back up through it: does it remain, with ne'er becoming a permanent feature in the area, or does it gradually seal itself up? This (plus the swarms of treasure hunters, Pathfinders, and others streaming in to loot the ruins) is going to be the major feature in the aftermath of events. That and a rise in popularity of the church of Gorum (if Anthea used her influence to gain additional support from them to assist the national army). </p>
<p><b>Predicted Extraneous Body Count: </b>
<br />
The slaughter in Venlor of soldiers and citizens is likely to be near total. Given what happened in the case of a planar incursion in Sarkoris, whomever the local ruler is in the nation which Venlor landed in is unlikely to want to risk a bunch of hostile warmongering beings from another plane hanging around. Admittedly the beings invading in Sarkoris were demons, but the invaders in Venlor clearly aren't human, they control what is a flying city, and given that most rulers will be inclined to protect their citizens from the possibility of harm (and/or to seize such an important asset for their own use) they're likely to go for the simplest and safest option of exterminating <i>everyone</i> in Venlor.
<br />
Most wars have casualties on both sides, however, and in the struggle to contain this particular other planar invasion, soldiers and militia defending their homeland against the Venlor incursion are likely to lose their lives in some numbers too.
<br />
The body count is certainly likely to be much, much, higher than the 'lead a mongrelmen revolt' which the presentation posits that adventurous sorts involving themselves will do. </p>
<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Further Disclaimer:
<br />
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (out of deference to Lord Orcus) would like to once again remind voters that she has been providing a (very advanced) succubus’ take on this round’s entries, and that whilst her assessments are (naturally) impeccable, voters might like to consider other opinions and sources, too. </span></p>(edited, tweaked a little for formatting and better phrasing)
Disclaimer:
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus provides the much needed viewpoint of a CE aligned (very advanced) succubus. The following review pays assiduous attention to fairness, balance, and logic. That said, these are Abyssal notions of those concepts, wheretofore today ‘fairness’ is an installation commonly employed by someone with an over-the-top posh accent for smelting metals or toasting lightly flammable enemies, ‘balance’ is a...Ask A RPGSupersuccubus (alias of Charles Evans 25)2011-03-20T23:13:15ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityCody Coffelthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#302011-03-20T20:12:29Z2011-03-20T20:12:29Z<p>Thanks to everyone for their comments and critiques. Don't forget to vote before Monday!</p>Thanks to everyone for their comments and critiques. Don't forget to vote before Monday!Cody Coffelt2011-03-20T20:12:29ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to Nihilityfatouzocathttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#292011-03-19T18:24:20Z2011-03-19T18:24:20Z<p>Hi Cody
<br />
So far I have voted for pretty much all of your entries. At this point sadly I cannot. There were better proposals in this round. I look forward to seeing more of your work and wish you all the best. By the way I thought that The Hound Master was the best piece to come out of this entire superstar year so congrats; It's awesome I really hope to see it become part of the fold because that is a class I could get into playing. I also thought that the chase sequence in the crucible was nice and novel (although easy to avoid). Good luck as you continue on.</p>Hi Cody
So far I have voted for pretty much all of your entries. At this point sadly I cannot. There were better proposals in this round. I look forward to seeing more of your work and wish you all the best. By the way I thought that The Hound Master was the best piece to come out of this entire superstar year so congrats; It's awesome I really hope to see it become part of the fold because that is a class I could get into playing. I also thought that the chase sequence in the crucible was...fatouzocat2011-03-19T18:24:20ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityNick Bolhuishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#282011-03-19T15:06:35Z2011-03-19T15:06:35Z<p>I think your descriptive powers are excellent, you paint a hideous greasy picture. This has a very strong Netheril/City of Shade feel to it from the Forgotten Realms, and it think the y only thing that keeps it from being a clear rip off is that the city is so decrepit and degenerate. The ancient flying cities of Shory are already heavily Netherese so I guess any treatment of them can't help but be compared. I think you did a good job of owning this idea by twisting the elements from what we might expect from a returned high magic society. </p>
<p>I also think you did a fine job of scaling down the threat to a low level adventure, though I can certainly see where this is a stretch. Degenerate or no this does strain my suspension of disbelief quite a bit. I'm not saying that this is inappropriate for this power level, but I am saying that this treatments seems to imply a degree of supplementary explanation that simply won't fit within the module. Regardless of how reduces the inhabitants of this city are, a floating city appearing in the skies is bound to draw all sorts of attention. Where are all the high level wizards teleporting from all corners of the world to investigate? They certainly won't miss a chance like this to explore a Shory city, especially if the most resistance they re going to find is a 6th level barbarian. You've included no mechanic here to keep this high-level NPC's away despite the fact that they are bound to want to investigate. Also, if Paizo prints this, then the return of the city become cannon. This then means that they will be obligated to address all of the issues that you didn't have space for in the module. This event will have happened in the Golarion Political landscape, and will certainly have vast repercussions. </p>
<p>I think this idea works nicely in a vacuum, but in a larger setting which is striving for verisimilitude it opens an exponentially larger can of worms. Shory artifacts are great, they add a sense of mystery and wonder, they pose more questions than they answer. An actual Shory city practically screams that there need to be answers here, "and we're gonna stay until we find 'em". </p>
<p>If the adventure goes off as planned, and the PCs send the city back to its home plane before the higher level wizards can get there to investigate, I think it makes for the start of a great campaign. The PCs will become favoured guests of powerful wizards who want to learn of their adventure. Other less scrupulous wizards will seek them out to pry their secrets from their minds be force. The party will become famous, and infamous and will come to enjoy privilege beyond their rank and status. It would be a really fin game, and I would love to both play and run it, but it's a home campaign. To me it seems far to grand in scope for a published produce, even a higher level one.</p>I think your descriptive powers are excellent, you paint a hideous greasy picture. This has a very strong Netheril/City of Shade feel to it from the Forgotten Realms, and it think the y only thing that keeps it from being a clear rip off is that the city is so decrepit and degenerate. The ancient flying cities of Shory are already heavily Netherese so I guess any treatment of them can't help but be compared. I think you did a good job of owning this idea by twisting the elements from what we...Nick Bolhuis2011-03-19T15:06:35ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityNicolas Quimbyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#272011-03-19T10:42:48Z2011-03-19T10:42:48Z<p>'This could happen in any setting' is basically true of most Golarion adventures. And that's a feature, not a flaw.</p>
<p>Golarion is an excellent generic-fantasy-melting-pot setting, but it IS still a generic-fantasy-melting-pot setting, and the entire point of such settings is that you can throw in whatever high-fantasy shenanigans you want and have them fit. The setting serves the adventures, not the other way around.</p>
<p>I agree with most others' praise and criticism on this one, but I don't think it was a bad idea for him to write this as an "event", not tied to any particular place. I think that makes sense and makes the adventure more usable, especially if you take the space normally allocated to 'fleshing out' the location and instead spend that talking about how you can integrate this into any location.</p>'This could happen in any setting' is basically true of most Golarion adventures. And that's a feature, not a flaw.
Golarion is an excellent generic-fantasy-melting-pot setting, but it IS still a generic-fantasy-melting-pot setting, and the entire point of such settings is that you can throw in whatever high-fantasy shenanigans you want and have them fit. The setting serves the adventures, not the other way around.
I agree with most others' praise and criticism on this one, but I don't...Nicolas Quimby2011-03-19T10:42:48ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilitySwamp Druidhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#262011-03-19T06:50:34Z2011-03-19T06:50:34Z<p>I'm not really a big fan of the adventure title.</p>
<p>Another poster already mentioned that an island 1,000 ft in diameter is way too small for an entire city.</p>
<p>I like the ne'er, but they seem a bit powerful for a 4th level adventure. </p>
<p>It doesn't really seem to have much Golarion flavor to it.</p>
<p>There are some interesting ideas, but it seems as if you wanted your proposal to stand out so much that you went a little overboard on the adventure idea.</p>I'm not really a big fan of the adventure title.
Another poster already mentioned that an island 1,000 ft in diameter is way too small for an entire city.
I like the ne'er, but they seem a bit powerful for a 4th level adventure.
It doesn't really seem to have much Golarion flavor to it.
There are some interesting ideas, but it seems as if you wanted your proposal to stand out so much that you went a little overboard on the adventure idea.Swamp Druid2011-03-19T06:50:34ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityJason Ricehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#252011-03-19T05:07:56Z2011-03-19T05:07:56Z<p>I agree with most of the judges' comments, especially about the ne'er. Every time the party fighter attacks these guys, he may lose his weapon. That's harsh. Unless its my character's shtick to replay a specific scene from "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome", they usually only have 2 or 3 weapons, and usually only 1 "main" weapon.</p>
<p>In addition to the judges' comments, I'd like to add this...</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Cody Coffelt wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
a massive black rift tears the sky and from it emerges the thousand foot wide island of Venlor
<br />
</blockquote><p>A 1000 ft. wide island is <i><span class=tiny>tiny</span></i> for a city. That's an area less than 3 football fields across (counting the endzones). That hardly qualifies for a village. Add to that the fact that the city is supposedly self sustaining, and that means at least part of the land is devoted to agriculture.I agree with most of the judges' comments, especially about the ne'er. Every time the party fighter attacks these guys, he may lose his weapon. That's harsh. Unless its my character's shtick to replay a specific scene from "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome", they usually only have 2 or 3 weapons, and usually only 1 "main" weapon.
In addition to the judges' comments, I'd like to add this...
Cody Coffelt wrote:a massive black rift tears the sky and from it emerges the thousand foot wide island of...Jason Rice2011-03-19T05:07:56ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityDreaming Warforgedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#242011-03-19T01:53:07Z2011-03-19T01:53:07Z<p>I really enjoyed reading this application. It feels very epic and I like that it focusses on a few not too often seen races. As a DM, it allows me to really delve into the particulars of a society and its culture, through repeated contacts where the PCs find more, but little by little.</p>
<p>You've done very impressive work in this tournament.</p>
<p>You got my vote!</p>I really enjoyed reading this application. It feels very epic and I like that it focusses on a few not too often seen races. As a DM, it allows me to really delve into the particulars of a society and its culture, through repeated contacts where the PCs find more, but little by little.
You've done very impressive work in this tournament.
You got my vote!Dreaming Warforged2011-03-19T01:53:07ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to Nihilityjames knowleshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#232011-03-19T01:44:40Z2011-03-19T01:44:40Z<p>The mighty Casey just struck out.
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Cody, as the only finalist i voted for in all four previous rounds i was really jazzed up to see what your proposal would be. After reading it, however, i can't help but feel slightly let down. Good luck, but i can't vote for you this round.</p>The mighty Casey just struck out.
Cody, as the only finalist i voted for in all four previous rounds i was really jazzed up to see what your proposal would be. After reading it, however, i can't help but feel slightly let down. Good luck, but i can't vote for you this round.james knowles2011-03-19T01:44:40ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityJesse Bennerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#222011-03-19T01:39:39Z2011-03-19T01:39:39Z<p>Cody,
<br />
Late congrats on being in the Top 4.
<br />
While I agree with many of the judges and the feedback you've gotten from the community, I also agree with Dean/The Minstrel Wyrm in that you swung for the fences here.
<br />
I think there are some good ideas and that you could harvest them for material that is more level appropriate.
<br />
If you choose to use this in your own campaign/or it gets later publication, you might consider opening the rift to Venlor into the other small town and giving the lower level PCS a chance to explore a pocket of the shadowed city as it bleeds over into Golarion, rather than having the entire city appear. That would allow the ne'er to be the BBEG for 4th level characters and then, perhaps, the PCs could begin tracking these rifts across Golarion, opening up the possibility for more of the cultural interaction and location showcasing that James eluded to in the judges' feedback.
<br />
Regardless of the total outcome of RPG superstar 2011, you're final four and that don't happen by accident.
<br />
Best of luck.
<br />
Qui-gon Jesse</p>Cody,
Late congrats on being in the Top 4.
While I agree with many of the judges and the feedback you've gotten from the community, I also agree with Dean/The Minstrel Wyrm in that you swung for the fences here.
I think there are some good ideas and that you could harvest them for material that is more level appropriate.
If you choose to use this in your own campaign/or it gets later publication, you might consider opening the rift to Venlor into the other small town and giving the lower...Jesse Benner2011-03-19T01:39:39ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityMicManhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#212011-03-18T13:31:17Z2011-03-18T13:31:17Z<p>Um, this is simply NOT a 4th Level Adventure by any means!</p>
<p>While you go to great lengths to justify why a locale that was the pinnacle of power and cool in the old days is now run by CR6-7 guys I simply don't buy this concept.</p>
<p>For me it's way better to take a Level 1 locale and add something awesome to up its CR than to take a CR 15 locale and dumb it down.</p>
<p>The Ne'er are strange and not in a good way. Basically they are able to disintegrate "non-attended" matter. So while being able to disintegrate a castle wall they could not touch the glass that I hold in my hands or the cloth that I am wearing?! I think this is a good example of a CR15 monster/effect that got powered down in a bad way.</p>
<p>Finally this adventure starts off with a no go for me, throwing the PCs into jail to be busted out by a deus ex machina is not something I like to do. And because it is unclear how PCs and Mongrelfolk/Morloks could communicate (none should speak any modern language and the PCs have no Tongues) it seems hard to avoid a fight and dinteract with most of the NPCs in a diplomatic way.</p>Um, this is simply NOT a 4th Level Adventure by any means!
While you go to great lengths to justify why a locale that was the pinnacle of power and cool in the old days is now run by CR6-7 guys I simply don't buy this concept.
For me it's way better to take a Level 1 locale and add something awesome to up its CR than to take a CR 15 locale and dumb it down.
The Ne'er are strange and not in a good way. Basically they are able to disintegrate "non-attended" matter. So while being able to...MicMan2011-03-18T13:31:17ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityRonarsCorruptionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#202011-03-17T13:49:44Z2011-03-17T13:49:44Z<p>Just as a side note on the ne'er, unless the players are only ever going to face one of them at a time, they're going to have to be in the ballpark of CR1 or CR2 creatures. A +20 bonus to break something at CR2 is huge, and players don't get disintegrate until way, way after this level range. If the morlocks can befriend one of these, why can't a PC? At 4th level having a monster that can disintegrate at all, let alone at will and when struck, is a major game breaker.</p>
<p>Awesome monster idea, but like the rest of the adventure it looks like it should be in the mid-teens, not in probably the second adventure the PCs go on.</p>Just as a side note on the ne'er, unless the players are only ever going to face one of them at a time, they're going to have to be in the ballpark of CR1 or CR2 creatures. A +20 bonus to break something at CR2 is huge, and players don't get disintegrate until way, way after this level range. If the morlocks can befriend one of these, why can't a PC? At 4th level having a monster that can disintegrate at all, let alone at will and when struck, is a major game breaker.
Awesome monster idea,...RonarsCorruption2011-03-17T13:49:44ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityEric Baileyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#192011-03-17T13:38:09Z2011-03-17T13:38:09Z<p>Cody, I wanted to say that I think you've got something really fun and creative in the ne'er. I envision them as completely alien, just walking through walls, doors, and any other obstacle in their path (leaving vaguely humanoid holes in everything) as they pursue their inscrutable goals.</p>
<p>What I would like to see more of in this adventure is a sense of urgency. You've got an ancient city plummeting to earth out of a rift in the sky. That's going to be a catastrophic event for both civilizations involved, but the events as written don't seem that devastating. An event like this is going to cause more of a widespread commotion than what you've described.</p>
<p>How the moorlocks and mongrelmen react to being thrust into this new world is fascinating to me. Do they even know that other worlds exist? Or, for that matter, have they ever experienced light or color, dwelling as they do in a realm of utter blackness? </p>
<p>I've really enjoyed your work in this competition. I wish you the best of luck here and in your future projects.</p>Cody, I wanted to say that I think you've got something really fun and creative in the ne'er. I envision them as completely alien, just walking through walls, doors, and any other obstacle in their path (leaving vaguely humanoid holes in everything) as they pursue their inscrutable goals.
What I would like to see more of in this adventure is a sense of urgency. You've got an ancient city plummeting to earth out of a rift in the sky. That's going to be a catastrophic event for both...Eric Bailey2011-03-17T13:38:09ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityJohn Bennetthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#182011-03-17T07:08:33Z2011-03-17T07:08:33Z<p>Anyone else reading this and wanting to play a gunslinging Kurt Russell type of PC? That's kind of the vibe I'm getting from this which makes me like it.</p>Anyone else reading this and wanting to play a gunslinging Kurt Russell type of PC? That's kind of the vibe I'm getting from this which makes me like it.John Bennett2011-03-17T07:08:33ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityThe_Minstrel_Wyrmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#172011-03-17T03:19:30Z2011-03-17T03:19:30Z<p>Cody I'd like to apologize for opening my mouth and not knowing from whence I speak... I hadn't bothered to read the round 5 rules... I figured I basically knew what it was about... and so I had no idea that the judges had constrained you and the others into proposing an adventure suitable for... four 4th level characters.</p>
<p>Still wish you the best of luck in the voting round.</p>
<p>~Dean</p>Cody I'd like to apologize for opening my mouth and not knowing from whence I speak... I hadn't bothered to read the round 5 rules... I figured I basically knew what it was about... and so I had no idea that the judges had constrained you and the others into proposing an adventure suitable for... four 4th level characters.
Still wish you the best of luck in the voting round.
~DeanThe_Minstrel_Wyrm2011-03-17T03:19:30ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityJoel Flankhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#162011-03-17T02:05:01Z2011-03-17T02:05:01Z<p>Cody, I've enjoyed most of your entries so far, but unfortunately, I have the samse kinds of problems with your adventure proposal that the judges and others have. The biggest issue is really that this simply isn't a 4th level adventure. It reads like you took your initial idea which would have been for 10th level or so, and then tried to down scale it to fit the 4th level requirement. Unfortunately, that just doesn't work well. While you can scale down the encounters, you can't really scale down the plot or location, and even some of these scaled down encounters (particularly the ne'er) seem too tough for 4th level PCs.</p>
<p>Another thing that didn't sit well with me was some of the backstory. So the city was flying like most Shory cities, and then one day it's engine just started failing? That's a big anti-climax to a big world mystery of what happened to the flying cities of the Shory? If I were playing in this adventure, that's what I'd want to find out as I explored, but it doesn't seem to be addressed at all. </p>
<p>I also have a bit of a nit pick (I know, I always do). Why would the morlock princesses disguise themselves as beautiful girls? After 50 generations or more, would they even know what a beautiful girl looked like? Would the other morlocks even find that attractive, or just weird?</p>
<p>I think you do have the structure of an adventure down pretty well though, and that should serve you well in your future endeavors. I'm looking forward to seeing you take the feedback from this final round and turn it around to produce a stellar adventure when this is all over. (just don't make such a tough adventure for PFS - I won't like it if my character gets killed by a ne'er!)</p>Cody, I've enjoyed most of your entries so far, but unfortunately, I have the samse kinds of problems with your adventure proposal that the judges and others have. The biggest issue is really that this simply isn't a 4th level adventure. It reads like you took your initial idea which would have been for 10th level or so, and then tried to down scale it to fit the 4th level requirement. Unfortunately, that just doesn't work well. While you can scale down the encounters, you can't really scale...Joel Flank2011-03-17T02:05:01ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityThe_Minstrel_Wyrmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#152011-03-16T23:32:48Z2011-03-16T23:32:48Z<p>Wow Cody... I think you took a BIG swing for the fences, I was really looking forward to your adventure proposal, but sadly after reading over it, I just can't give you my vote.</p>
<p>I've enjoyed everything from you thus far, and while I really liked the IDEA of your adventure, I think the proposed character level is to low for what you are trying to set up. The module (that I'm guessing inspired this, but I could be mistaken) <i>Crucible of Chaos</i> was my favorite of the GameMastery Modules (and still v.3.5) and it was the basis for my long running Monday night game. <i>Crucible of Chaos</i> was for 8th level PCs. I think "Return to Nihility" should have been at least for characters of that level, if not a couple levels higher. (Note: Having Vanlor "return" from the Shadow Plane made me think of Forgotten Realms and the return of the Shade Enclave... but that's a good thing in my mind, that was one of my favorite FR trilogies. So the comparison is meant as a compliment). </p>
<p>But, all the good things that I liked about your story and the memories it conjured, just couldn't get me excited enough to vote for it. The adventure itself seems to try to do too much, or at other points in the proposal I'm not entirely sure what the PCs are supposed to do.</p>
<p>I wish you the best of luck, and look forward to additional material from you in the future, as I'm sure you have some freelance opportunities coming your way soon.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm</p>Wow Cody... I think you took a BIG swing for the fences, I was really looking forward to your adventure proposal, but sadly after reading over it, I just can't give you my vote.
I've enjoyed everything from you thus far, and while I really liked the IDEA of your adventure, I think the proposed character level is to low for what you are trying to set up. The module (that I'm guessing inspired this, but I could be mistaken) Crucible of Chaos was my favorite of the GameMastery Modules (and...The_Minstrel_Wyrm2011-03-16T23:32:48ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityDark Sasha (alias of Dawn R Fischer, Frog God Games)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#142011-07-28T17:48:05Z2011-03-16T18:56:31Z<p>Hey Cody! I love the idea of a vanished Shory city returning to light in the world of Golarion, ready for PC's to explore.</p>
<p>I think however that your adventure concept fits far better as a higher level one, 10+ at the least. Your new monster concept, Ne'er is an excellent one, but again it sounds way too deadly for lower level characters.</p>
<p>Some more work in the adventure introduction is necessary for a DM to run the various factions in this city. I do have a solution for some of the problems others have presented. </p>
<p>The city could already be grounded in some remote location. The Aeromatic Academy burned themselves out trying to create a protective ward around the city which still holes to this day, 5,000 years later. Perhaps this ward is fading and creating the rift through which the Ne'er are coming through both inside and outside the city. The morlocks could indeed be living in caves below the city perhaps because these caves are more protected than the city above. These are just a few ideas I came up with while reading your proposal on how this could be reworked.</p>
<p>However, I am not sure I can vote for your proposal. It is a great idea for an adventure! But it has too many things which need to be reworked, not the least of which is the fact that it is just way too hard to fit this into a good concept for a low level adventure.</p>Hey Cody! I love the idea of a vanished Shory city returning to light in the world of Golarion, ready for PC's to explore.
I think however that your adventure concept fits far better as a higher level one, 10+ at the least. Your new monster concept, Ne'er is an excellent one, but again it sounds way too deadly for lower level characters.
Some more work in the adventure introduction is necessary for a DM to run the various factions in this city. I do have a solution for some of the problems...Dark Sasha (alias of Dawn R Fischer, Frog God Games)2011-03-16T18:56:31ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityRonarsCorruptionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#132011-03-16T16:27:59Z2011-03-16T16:27:59Z<p>I love how this adventure takes a low level party and make them feel epic in what they're doing. I know other people complain a lot about the scope, and that's true - I would have a hell of a time running something this big - but it's still fun.</p>
<p>But it's just a little too samey for me, flavor wise. Lots of similar encounters, a great big city, nothing super-eye catching other than the scope.</p>I love how this adventure takes a low level party and make them feel epic in what they're doing. I know other people complain a lot about the scope, and that's true - I would have a hell of a time running something this big - but it's still fun.
But it's just a little too samey for me, flavor wise. Lots of similar encounters, a great big city, nothing super-eye catching other than the scope.RonarsCorruption2011-03-16T16:27:59ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityMaurice de Marehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#122011-03-16T13:17:04Z2011-03-16T13:17:04Z<p>I hate the names, because they are just Dutch words.</p>
<p>Kracht the powerful prince. Kracht means power.</p>
<p>The mad wizard Gek. Gek means crazy/mad.</p>
<p>Granted, Dutch player would be a minority,but it would ruin the experience for us.</p>I hate the names, because they are just Dutch words.
Kracht the powerful prince. Kracht means power.
The mad wizard Gek. Gek means crazy/mad.
Granted, Dutch player would be a minority,but it would ruin the experience for us.Maurice de Mare2011-03-16T13:17:04ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityLukas Klausnerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#112011-03-16T11:22:14Z2011-03-16T11:22:14Z<p>I'm afraid this proposal doesn't really do it for me; it sounds a bit repetitive (especially the combat encounters), the plot is a bit ... strange (bad-strange, not good-strange), and it seems more suited to levels 7–9 than 4.</p>I'm afraid this proposal doesn't really do it for me; it sounds a bit repetitive (especially the combat encounters), the plot is a bit ... strange (bad-strange, not good-strange), and it seems more suited to levels 7–9 than 4.Lukas Klausner2011-03-16T11:22:14ZRe: Forums: Round 5: Submit an adventure proposal: Return to NihilityCasseyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lziy?Return-to-Nihility#102011-03-16T11:16:48Z2011-03-16T11:16:48Z<p>I like the staff, and the city does sound like it could be fun, but it's clearly too much for level 4's.</p>I like the staff, and the city does sound like it could be fun, but it's clearly too much for level 4's.Cassey2011-03-16T11:16:48Z