I've grown tired of my current character, so, for plot reasons, in a couple months I'm going to swap him out. The GM says the expected level I'll be bringing in the new guy will be 13. We have a 25 point buy, no traits, Core Rules + APG only.
One build I'm thinking of is a Half-Elf Bard (Arcane Duelist) 8/Arcane Archer 5 focused on buffing, full attacks, and sometimes imbuing arrows:
Str 14
Dex 23 (16 base, +2 racial, +3 levels, +2 enhancement)
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 16
Skills: Max out Perception, Use Magic Device, Acrobatics, and Spellcraft. 2 ranks of Linguistics (to speak Celestial and Abyssal). Use the rest for 1 point bumps of other class skills.
Feats: Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Improved Precise Shot
Gear: +4 composite bow (Bonded Object, +2 Str), Masterwork Cold Iron Spiked Gauntlet, Celestial Armor (increased to +5 enhancement), +5 Buckler, Ring of Protection +2, Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2, Handy Haversack, Efficient Quiver, Winged Boots, Cloak of resistance +3, Lesser Bracers of Archery, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Ioun Torch, miscellaneous mundane gear.
Spell List
0-Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigtation, Read Magic
1-Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Saving Finale, Solid Note, Summon Monster I, Vanish
2-Blur, Gallant Inspiration, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Silence
3-Fear, Good Hope, Haste, Tiny Hut
4-Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Zone of Silence
Alternate racial trait - either Ancestral Arms (longbow) or Dual Minded. I'm not sure which is better.
Favored class bonus: +1 hp every Bard level
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The rest of the party includes: Healbot Gnome Cleric, Rogue 2/Sorcerer X blaster (no intention of going Arcane Trickster as far as I can tell), Bard Skill monkey.
The last guy needs a paragraph by himself. Due to story reasons, he's a Dwarf Fighter that, under certain stimuli, switches personalities (and all stats/abilites) to one of 3 of his former traveling companions, and then turns back into the fighter after a few minutes. Around loot, he becomes a klepto Halfling Rogue. If an Arcane spell is cast where he can see, he becomes an Elven Sorceress (yes, sorceress). I know he also has the potential to become some sort of divine caster, but I don't what class or the stimulus.
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Yes, I have read Treantmonk's guide to bards, I was looking at it the whole time.
This is my first time desiging a caster, so I don't have much knowledge on how to play them.
Not that it would make a big difference but why do you want a Masterwork Cold Iron Spiked Gauntlet?
Not that it would make a big difference but why do you want a Masterwork Cold Iron Spiked Gauntlet?
Getting grappled, disarmed, Step-Up, all kinds of "just in case I can't shoot an arrow." This is my first time playing a caster.
Not that it would make a big difference but why do you want a Masterwork Cold Iron Spiked Gauntlet?Getting grappled, disarmed, Step-Up, all kinds of "just in case I can't shoot an arrow." This is my first time playing a caster.
Ok nice thinking.
Keep in mind this rule "You can cast aspell with somatic components using your shield arm, but
you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn. You
can’t make a shield bash with a buckler."
I brought it up because i saw that you spent a good deal of money in this buckler.
I'm pretty sure I'll be fine if the buckler and gauntlet are on my primary hand and I hold the bow in my off hand. I'm right-handed and when I did archery at summer camp all those year ago they had me hold the bow in my left. I can't find anything about something bad happening if you use your off hand for somatic components. J Jacobs has quoted around here somewhere that while the shield bash is described as off-hand, there is nothing preventing you from having a shield in your primary hand (or on your primary arm as it were).
I only grabbed Fear for a debuff because my save DCs suck, it at least is Will partial. I'm going high Dex because I am easing into casters, having only played melee bruisers before.
I don't have the understanding of how making the area around an enemy a smoke cloud is a good thing just yet.
Also, I just can't roleplay a Paladin yet. I don't have (or know how to fake) that kind of lawful bent.
I don't know if you want to make your bow your bonded object. Won't your caster level be stuck when you leave wizard , preventing you from enchanting it with bonuses appropriate for your level?
The only limit on Caster levels with enhancing the bonded item, as far as I can see, is that I need at least the CL of the appropraite item creation feat to do it at all. Since Arcane Duelists get the ability at Lv 5 (the CL requirement for Craft Magic Arms and Armor), I should be fine.
This build is CL 11. Arcane Archer improves spellcasting at all levels except 1, 5, and 9.
I'm pretty sure I'll be fine if the buckler and gauntlet are on my primary hand and I hold the bow in my off hand. I'm right-handed and when I did archery at summer camp all those year ago they had me hold the bow in my left. I can't find anything about something bad happening if you use your off hand for somatic components. J Jacobs has quoted around here somewhere that while the shield bash is described as off-hand, there is nothing preventing you from having a shield in your primary hand (or on your primary arm as it were).
No that's not what i meant, i meant that you might have put too much money on the shield and you will not be getting the worth of that money each round you cast a spell.
I know it's not the route you're going, but I'm just throwing it out there for consideration:
Fighter 1/Transmuter 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 3/Eldritch Knight +7/Arcane Archer +1
There are a lot of things you can do with the above build to put your archer into overdrive (+1 holy acid bow with Greater Magic Weapon and the Arcane Archer level 3 ability to make it a +3 holy corrosive shock bow).
Also, Heroism is a ridiculously good spell for Arcane Archers.
Anyhow, I like your build and where you're headed. Just thought I would toss out an alternative. It may be about equal in power at 13th, but after that it quickly starts to swing towards the above build.
@leo- I can maintain the shield bonus all day long. Off hand holds bow and can still be used for somatic components (Arcane Duelist variation of arcane bond), main hand has buckler.
@Sylvanite- 1) I don't doubt that that build is more powerful, but I'm just trying to keep it simple for my first caster. 2)I've basically got mass heroism with good hope. 3) holy acid sounds kinda trippy man. 4) Glad you like it, is there anything you'd change while keeping this class combination? 5) Would you reccomend I go with the Ancestral Arms ability and wield a longbow, or Dual Minded and wield a shortbow?
Ancestral Arms because Bards aren't competent with Composite Shortbow (just Shortbow). Arcane Trsining alternative also, since Multitalented is useless to you ( Arcane Training boosts for example Wand of Cure Light Wounds ).
How do you keep buckler AC while shooting the bow? +5 Seems to me also quite much for the buckler... I usually prefer Cloak of Resistance. I assume the high AC (high for a support/archer) is due your party having no tank/defender. If I read right your party is now two bards, sorcerer, basically sorceress (since there is 3 other arcane casters and the dwarf switches to Sorceress ASAP he sees arcane spell to be cast) and a gnome healbot.
@Sylvanite- 1) I don't doubt that that build is more powerful, but I'm just trying to keep it simple for my first caster. 2)I've basically got mass heroism with good hope. 3) holy acid sounds kinda trippy man. 4) Glad you like it, is there anything you'd change while keeping this class combination? 5) Would you reccomend I go with the Ancestral Arms ability and wield a longbow, or Dual Minded and wield a shortbow?
1 - totally understandable...just wanted to make sure you had the option.
2 - Good hope is an awesome buff...heroism lasts 10x longer. It's an interesting trade either way.
3 - Holy acid is amazing : ) Leave the tripping to melee fighters tho!
4 - I would never take Arcane Archer past level 3 (4 if you really need one more level of full BAB and casting). I would honestly rather end up Arcane Duelist 16/Arcane Archer 4. I love playing magic archers...but the reality of the situation is that Arcane Archer is not a very good class, especially beyond Imbue Arrow.
5 - I'm not really familiar with those traits. I tend to take Magical Knack to make up for some CLs that I lose, along with some Initiative booster trait.
@leo- I can maintain the shield bonus all day long. Off hand holds bow and can still be used for somatic components (Arcane Duelist variation of arcane bond), main hand has buckler.
I don't think that you can use the hand you are holding a weapon for somatic components.
@ leo - PRD section on Bard Archetypes, scroll down to the Arcane Bond part and read the 2nd to last sentence.
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@ Riku - 1) Composite bows count as their non-composite equivalents for things like proficiency, Weapon Focus, etc. so it's a choice between (1d8+X per shot) or (1d6+X per shot and +2 will).
2) Arcane Training doesn't actually help with wands, but it does help with scrolls. Now that I think about it, it works with staves too. So yeah I'll add that. Thanks.
3) Ac total is coming from the Frontliner mindset, yeah. I thought you kept your buckler AC when firing a bow? 2nd sentence in the buckler's description goes: "You can use a bow or crosbow without penaly while carrying it." Did I miss something? I know it also mentions losing the AC bonus when using 2 handed weapons, but I thought that meant melee weapons only because of the sentence I quoted.
@ Sylvanite - I think my wording might've confused you. Let's try this: Ancestral Arms and Dual Minded are alternate racial abilities that both want to replace the free Skill Focus, so I can get one or the other. Ancestral Arms gives me proficiency with one weapon from the start, and would allow me to use a Longbow. Dual Minded gives me a +2 to will saves. So it's a choice between (1d8+X per shot) or (1d6+X per shot and +2 will).
@ leo - PRD section on Bard Archetypes, scroll down to the Arcane Bond part and read the 2nd to last sentence.
Oh sorry i didn't know that arcane duelist's arcane bond is an exception.
3) Ac total is coming from the Frontliner mindset, yeah. I thought you kept your buckler AC when firing a bow? 2nd sentence in the buckler's description goes: "You can use a bow or crosbow without penaly while carrying it." Did I miss something? I know it also mentions losing the AC bonus when using 2 handed weapons, but I thought that meant melee weapons only because of the sentence I quoted.
I also think that this anly means melee weapons.
@ Sylvanite - I think my wording might've confused you. Let's try this: Ancestral Arms and Dual Minded are alternate racial abilities that both want to replace the free Skill Focus, so I can get one or the other. Ancestral Arms gives me proficiency with one weapon from the start, and would allow me to use a Longbow. Dual Minded gives me a +2 to will saves. So it's a choice between (1d8+X per shot) or (1d6+X per shot and +2 will).
Ahhhh. Hahaha. Try and guess how often I play half-elves....
+2 to will saves is awesome. It may end up more useful than an extra 1 point of damage.
Ok, I'm convinced. I'm taking Dual Minded.
Does anyone have a comment on the spell list? After re-reading TreantMonk's guides to Bards and Wizards, I think I might drop Vanish for Minor Image to "cast" "Wall of Stone."
Ok, I'm convinced. I'm taking Dual Minded.
Does anyone have a comment on the spell list? After re-reading TreantMonk's guides to Bards and Wizards, I think I might drop Vanish for Minor Image to "cast" "Wall of Stone."
Why not drop summon monster 1? At level 13+ how usefull can summon monster 1 will be?
Can't see how I've been so blind I've never noticed the Shortbow / Longbow proficiency thing... thanks for that. Checked that its been there in 3.5 also... so many years.
What comes to Arcane Training it says "They can use spell trigger and spell completion items for their Favored Class as if 1 level higher ", so I still think it applies to wands... from Wands description "Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method". Also applies to Scrolls & Staffs since the spell completion part.
What comes to Arcane Training it says "They can use spell trigger and spell completion items for their Favored Class as if 1 level higher ", so I still think it applies to wands... from Wands description "Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method". Also applies to Scrolls & Staffs since the spell completion part.
How would an increased caster level (or caster level in general) helps when using wands?
How would an increased caster level (or caster level in general) helps when using wands?
What comes to Arcane Training it says "They can use spell trigger and spell completion items for their Favored Class as if 1 level higher ", so I still think it applies to wands... from Wands description "Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method". Also applies to Scrolls & Staffs since the spell completion part.
Oh right.. it doesn't (unless its first level of course).
Oh right.. it doesn't (unless its first level of course).How would an increased caster level (or caster level in general) helps when using wands?
What comes to Arcane Training it says "They can use spell trigger and spell completion items for their Favored Class as if 1 level higher ", so I still think it applies to wands... from Wands description "Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method". Also applies to Scrolls & Staffs since the spell completion part.
And you select the favored class to be a class that you don't have levels in yes it allows you to use wands that class can use(i don't like giving up my favored class options but someone might want to).
A wand of mage armor would only last 1 hour. A wand of mage armor cast by a half elf with that trait would last 2 hours.
A wand of mage armor would only last 1 hour. A wand of mage armor cast by a half elf with that trait would last 2 hours.
WHY?
Why do you think that?
Summon Monster I is used for wierd situations you need to send a body somewhere.
My favorite being:
*Summon Fiendish Pony and send it down the corridor*
*Triggers many traps*
"OK, I hope everyone was watching where those all came from."
There's also the trick from the Pokemon anime:
*Summon Celestial Eagle*
"Please fly up and tell me what you see."
*flies up, looks around and comes back down*
"OK, what did you see?"
@Nigrescence- Nice to see someone who knows M:tG around here.
The first thing can be done just as good with an unseen servant(a very nice nice wand if you can't pick the spell).
Unseen sevant can only exert 20lb of force and isn't nearly as funny.
Unseen sevant can only exert 20lb of force and isn't nearly as funny.
It can drag a lot more though.
Ok this isn't as funny as the fiendish pony.
It can drag up to 100lbs. I don't know about you, by my characters don't usually have 100lbs of random junk lying around.
It can drag up to 100lbs. I don't know about you, by my characters don't usually have 100lbs of random junk lying around.
No i didn't meant to have it drag THAT much but to show you that it can drag let's say a half-plate (50 lbs.) which should be enough for nearly every pressure plate trap.