Vampire, Nosferatu, Vampyr, Ghul...


Homebrew and House Rules

Grand Lodge

So, to make a short story long,...

Not long ago I saw a TV preview for a new show called Being Human on SciFi -- actually it's just a remake of a British show, but still, new to USA. Anyway, though a taste intrigued, I hadn't planned on watching it -- waaay to much work, especially on Mondays (when it airs) -- to get hooked on the latest in vampire soap operas. (God bless Dark Shadows, right).

As it turned out, a few Mondays ago I was waaay caught up with work, miraculously -- and bored -- and it happened that the pilot of Being Human was going to come on.

I watched it.
.
.
.
Now, predictably, I watch every Monday.

And so, our short-story-made-long completed, now I'm rethinking vampires in my D&D.

-------------------------------------------

My "Plea to the Lords of the Boards":

How would you differentiate the original "different" vampire types?

Nosferatu, an uglier, less human-like monster, more primal and preternatural, not at all Romantic -- but where did the first one come from? How come it's different than vampires?

Vampire, the darkly Romantic, beautiful in a feral way, brilliant and passionate -- and where did that first one come from?

Vampyr, and what the heck could this be? I like the idea of adding an "h" to make it "Vhampyr," making it similar to Dhampir (replacing Dhampir, actually), and arguing that it can actually function -- at much reduced power -- during the day. But what could its origin be?

. . . .

Also, I'd like to do the same with Ghoul and Ghul.

How could they be different? Certainly there's a difference between The Skinsaw Man and the nameless ghoul PCs kill.


The original mythological ghul took the form of the people it ate, something I always thought was a nice twist on things.

Grand Lodge

wspatterson wrote:
The original mythological ghul took the form of the people it ate

Yeah, I remember it could also turn into a Hyena. It would be neat to have another undead be able to turn into an animal. I guess the question remains, which type, Ghul or Ghoul, should get to shapechange and why?


W E Ray wrote:


Nosferatu, an uglier, less human-like monster, more primal and preternatural, not at all Romantic -- but where did the first one come from? How come it's different than vampires?

Given the supposed meaning of the name, "not dead" (although that is a matter of conjecture), These could be just a more powerful form of animated undead, perhaps ones animated before their souls could entirely leave, giving them intelligence and will. Or possibly they died of a particular disease before being reanimated with the intention of making them zombies, but the combination of the disease and reanimation created nosferatu.

Quote:
Vampire, the darkly Romantic, beautiful in a feral way, brilliant and passionate -- and where did that first one come from?

I imagine these as living creatures who survived being infected by Nosferatu or other Vampires.

Quote:
Vampyr, and what the heck could this be? I like the idea of adding an "h" to make it "Vhampyr," making it similar to Dhampir (replacing Dhampir, actually), and arguing that it can actually function -- at much reduced power -- during the day. But what could its origin be?

These could be the offspring of an unholy union of a Vampire with a living mate.

Dark Archive

W E Ray wrote:

Nosferatu, an uglier, less human-like monster, more primal and preternatural, not at all Romantic -- but where did the first one come from? How come it's different than vampires?

Vampire, the darkly Romantic, beautiful in a feral way, brilliant and passionate -- and where did that first one come from?

Vampyr, and what the heck could this be? I like the idea of adding an "h" to make it "Vhampyr," making it similar to Dhampir (replacing Dhampir, actually), and arguing that it can actually function -- at much reduced power -- during the day. But what could its origin be?

1) My choice would be to have *most* vampires be the sort of brutish figures one would see in a movie like 30 Days of Night, or getting staked by a blonde cheerleader named Buffy. They would be the result of individuals being bitten by vampires (of any sort) and surviving the bite, to suffer a degenerative condition like Ghoul Fever, and eventually transform.

Depending on the game world, I'd be more inclined to make these sorts of vampires not undead, but infected living beings that become photosensitive (as in light sensitivity, not 'burst into flames in sunlight'). Maybe one in a hundred times, when one of them *does* die, it rises again three nights later as a *real* undead vampire.

Alternately, perhaps all of these 'brute' vampires are also undead. Either works, I just like the idea of clerics wasting channel energy attempts on night-stalking blood-drinking stronger-than-normal 'vampires' who aren't undead, yet. :)

Either way, they'd be stronger (orc strong, at first, not iron golem strong), tougher, faster (easily able to outrun a fleeing human), sensitive to bright lights and sunlight, keen of senses (scent, low-light vision, good hearing), frightened by fire (maybe +50% damage from fire?), and able to hurt people with ragged claw-like nails and pointy teeth, etc. No mind control, no animal control, no shapeshifting (although the changes to nails and teeth would foreshadow that). No coffins or not entering homes uninvited or repelled by holy symbols, either. Garlic might still annoy them, 'cause of the Scent. :)

2) The big gun vampires with supernatural powers, such as controlling animals, influencing the weather, turning into beasts, or mist, dominating the wills of others with their hypnotic eyes, would be a la carte, like ghosts, with some having this power or that, and others focusing in other areas, depending on what the story use of that critter is going to be. Perhaps as they get older, or exposed to powerful necromantic sources of power, or drink the blood of more exotic things (outsiders, dragons, etc.), they gain new abilities from the list of vampire options, until the Epic ones are doing comic-book / movie vampire stuff like moving faster than the eye can see or calling down lightning or shapeshifting into a swarm or just flying around like Sunset Superman (without having to turn into something first).

3) For the dhampir sort of character, I'd be inclined to have them just be people who survived a vampire bite without turning into one of the thuggish 30 Days of Night vampires, or someone who, through some powerful magic was *saved* from this condition (limited wish type magic might be required, although it's possible some very specific healing magic, like a heal spell, might work).

Ideally, for a 'dhampir,' there would be multiple ways that one could be tainted or infected or born with that status, so that one wouldn't be constrained for PC use to have one specific origin (mom was bitten, and I was born before she turned, for instance). Maybe one was inflicted the bite themself, and somehow resisted it. Maybe another turned, was killed, and after being ressurected, retained some vampiric traits, but was no longer a vampire. A third was cursed by an evil priest. A fourth was tricked into drinking the blood of a vampire by a cult of Urgathoa, that had snuck it into the water supply, 'to see what happened.' A fifth grew up in Ustalav, too close to the tower of the Whispering Tyrant, and was tainted by ambient necromantic forces. Etc.


Set wrote:


2) The big gun vampires with supernatural powers, such as controlling animals, influencing the weather, turning into beasts, or mist, dominating the wills of others with their hypnotic eyes, would be a la carte, like ghosts, with some having this power or that, and others focusing in other areas, depending on what the story use of that critter is going to be. Perhaps as they get older, or exposed to powerful necromantic sources of power, or drink the blood of more exotic things (outsiders, dragons, etc.), they gain new abilities from the list of vampire options, until the Epic ones are doing comic-book / movie vampire stuff like moving faster than the eye can see or calling down lightning or shapeshifting into a swarm or just flying around like Sunset Superman (without having to turn into something first).

IIRC, this is almost how vampires work in D20 Modern -- there are different powers, and different weaknesses, and Vampires vary from one to the next in how many of each they have.


Weirdly, I have been busy on a PF-compatible approach to PC Vampires so I've been thinking on this.

The Nosferatu-type is actually the oldest from the folkloric perspective (as well as in Golarion). Most vampire stories from eastern and central Europe describe bloated, gory creatures with an affinity for vermin and things that eat corpses. (Interestingly, (were)wolves (and wild dogs) are both allies and enemies of vampires because hungry wolves would dig up corpses. Thus different peoples either saw them as killing vampires or flesh-eating vampires themselves...).

The alluring vampire probably derives from the lustful night-visitor idea, which got conflated with vampires legends. This sometimes was the explanation for sexual dreams about dead partners (i.e., a dream about a dead husband). The Lilith-night visitor idea got bound up into it, but the blood-drinking aspect of her legend was much less important than her child-stealing and disease bringing aspect. Eventually, through Romantic and Gothic literature, we end up with seductive vampires, which aren't similar to us, but seductiveness is a cover for the erotic element of the older horror tales.

Many Vampires (notably both Ruthven and Dracula himself) were not harmed by sunlight in stories, and there is a consistent alternative storyline where the vampire masquerades as a living person (often a witch) during the day and takes monstrous form by night. This overlaps into Hag legends. My approach would be to substitute other significant weaknesses for Sunlight.


Ah, this used to be my favorite topic several years ago.

Basically, it all starts with a concept of a dead person coming back to life and drinking blood. This notion is literally older than dirt - anthropological studies indicate the idea may have existed in the Stone Age. Then, throughout the ages, many different cultures have had many different takes on the concept, and sorting them out is much more difficult than figuring out the etymology of several words.

What most people think of when they say "vampire" now is a blend of Slavic, Nordic and Greco-Roman takes on this basic idea, implanted in popular culture in the Romantic Era thanks to authors such as Stoker, Polidori and LeFanu, and then existing with little to no changes. "Vampyr" is but one of myriad words for slightly different creatures that contributed to "vampires" as we know them now.

As for Nosferatu, that word is most likely a literary invention of Romantic writers, with little to no proof that it was used historically. The idea that Nosferatu means "(very) ugly vampire" comes straight from the movie "Nosferatu", both original by Murnau and the remake by Herzog. Then White Wolf caught up on it and now we're stuck with ugly Nosferatu, but the concept is completely modern.

"Ghul" is no different than the rest of the lot - an Arabic take on the same basic concept. Same is the Nordic Draugr, and many more.

The whole subject is pretty complex, and many books have been written about it. Whether the creature was physical or ephemeral; whether it drank blood or ate flesh or both; whether it was contracted by biting/drinking blood or was a condition one was born with - answers to those questions vary wildly depending on culture, location and time, often with different versions coexisting simultaneously at the same place, same time. Mapping various influences on the contemporary concept of a vampire is taxing at best and impossible at worst, with sources ranging from mythology and folklore to philosophy and theology.

The bottom line is, go with whatever brand of vampire you think tastes best, or introduce as many of them as you like, whether as subtypes (clans?) or entirely different creatures. Heck, basing on what I know, you're already introducing different takes on vampirism when you put vampires, ghouls, draugrs, wraiths and several other creatures into your game world.

Oh, and by the way, the word "dhampir" is a proper term for a half-vampire, coming from Romanian folklore. Romanians were crazy like that - they even had vampire vegetables!


amorangias said most of what has to be, guess most part of my post isn´t adding that much but well:

ad vampire: AFAIK the name "vampire" comes from a kind of bat... however, it wasn´t used originally for undead monsters, that came later
ad nosferatu: As was already said, means undead. We only use it for Vampires ´cause of the Movie Nosferatu which was basically Dracula but the producers couldn´t get the right on that brand first or something like that
ad vampyr: I call it "being lame". Guess some guys with a small amount of creativity came up with it. However I heard that there is a subculture calling themselves vampyres, they wear clothes like goths but have nothing to do with the punk and loathing that defines the original goth
ad ghoul: There were two mythological ghouls, european corpse eaters and the gûli from islam mythology who were man-eating shapeshifting demons (with the shapeshifting limitation that every form has hooves or backward feets) who have to be killed with a single strike since a second one would revive them

Jeff de luna wrote:


(Interestingly, (were)wolves (and wild dogs) are both allies and enemies of vampires because hungry wolves would dig up corpses. Thus different peoples either saw them as killing vampires or flesh-eating vampires themselves...).

Vampires and Werewolves should be the same mythologically speaking since both have origins in rabbies

Quote:


Many Vampires (notably both Ruthven and Dracula himself) were not harmed by sunlight in stories,

Well, Dracula lost many of his strength during day but yeah, basically correct

amorangias wrote:


As for Nosferatu, that word is most likely a literary invention of Romantic writers, with little to no proof that it was used historically.

I heard about some greek legends about a plague-bringing demon called nosophoros... but I´m not that sure about it

To add something to the vampire origins:
There are many different legends that were woven together for the modern pop culture vampire.
There are the legends that spring from rabbies (fear of light, water and strong odors like the odor of garlic flowers, aggresive behaviour and typical disease for wolves and bats), legends that spring from infections via corpses (the people tought the corpse has an unholy life and draws the energy of the living and if you dig up corpses, it looks like the hair and the nails have grown since the flesh shriveled back), the legend of dark wizards who shapeshift via hides into a creature, wait for a wanderer, sit on his shoulders and draw his life until he breaks down... however, all mythological vampires were peasants or other commoners, the noble vampire comes from literature (like Dracula where the old tales about the voivod vlad "tepesh" (the impaler) of the dragon knight order (dragon/snake in latin: draconis -> dracula) who defended east europe against the turks were woven in)

If you want a nice background for a vampire oriented campaign, why not take some inspiration from Vampire: the Masquerade or Vampire: The Requiem? Got some nice background stuff, it´s funny to trace back some of the Masquerade names (for example: brujah: spanish for witch, lasombra: spanish for shadow)


I'd personally go with a standard undead type, one that is essentially a demon possessed corpse, and one that is essentially a ghost that feeds off of blood. The first two could easily just be the same monster as there are many different takes on whether a vampire was a damned soul or something diabolical. I'd personally go with the pure undead ones being a weaker version and the demonic undead more powerful (and still classified as Undead. The third is a take you don't see very often in games, even though they were a fairly common form of vampire. They are tied to their bodies, can usually come out at night, and often caused nightmares when they feed.

Dhampirs as "half vampires" is actually a rather new concept. A lot of folklore I've seen has Dhampirs being some one who looses a loved one to a vampire and gains resistance to their powers. The 3.5 WotC Book about Undead had a feat you could take that did a pretty good job representing this, IIRC.


W E Ray wrote:

So, to make a short story long,...

Not long ago I saw a TV preview for a new show called Being Human on SciFi -- actually it's just a remake of a British show, but still, new to USA. Anyway, though a taste intrigued, I hadn't planned on watching it -- waaay to much work, especially on Mondays (when it airs) -- to get hooked on the latest in vampire soap operas. (God bless Dark Shadows, right).

As it turned out, a few Mondays ago I was waaay caught up with work, miraculously -- and bored -- and it happened that the pilot of Being Human was going to come on.

I watched it.
.
.
.
Now, predictably, I watch every Monday.

I wouldn't say it's new to the USA. I've been watching the British original for two seasons now on BBC America. The couple of episodes of the SyFy remake I've seen are following the exact same storyline with a few notable changes, mostly bad or unnecessary. The original series is a superior product.

Quote:

And so, our short-story-made-long completed, now I'm rethinking vampires in my D&D.

-------------------------------------------

My "Plea to the Lords of the Boards":

How would you differentiate the original "different" vampire types?

Nosferatu, an uglier, less human-like monster, more primal and preternatural, not at all Romantic -- but where did the first one come from? How come it's different than vampires?

Vampire, the darkly Romantic, beautiful in a feral way, brilliant and passionate -- and where did that first one come from?

Vampyr, and what the heck could this be? I like the idea of adding an "h" to make it "Vhampyr," making it similar to Dhampir (replacing Dhampir, actually), and arguing that it can actually function -- at much reduced power -- during the day. But what could its origin be?

. . . .

Also, I'd like to do the same with Ghoul and Ghul.

How could they be different? Certainly there's a difference between The Skinsaw Man and the nameless ghoul PCs kill.

The nosferatu could be the original "curse." Evil folk doomed to become undead plagues upon mankind upon their deaths.

The romantic, charismatic vampires could be an offshoot. Taking a page from White Wolf's Tremere, perhaps a cabal of evil mages, coveting the power of the nosferatu--and looking for an option to the immortality of lichdom--captured a nosferatu and devised a dark ritual to take its power for themselves.

Other than Blade and Vampire Hunter D, I've never been fond of the whole "daywalker," "half-vampire," genre. If the origin of the vampire is considered a curse, than perhaps rather than the old "my mother was bitten/raped by a vampire" bit, one could perhaps see it as an attempt by the cursed to redeem themselves, having found a way to slowly leech the evil taint from themselves (through good deeds/ritual cleansing/whatever) which leaves them with a portion of their original power, but without many of the weaknesses. Still, the temptation to backslide, not to mention the hunger for blood, is still strong and requires a disciplined mind to resist. (Again harkening back to White Wolf's game and the idea of achieving Golconda.)

Liberty's Edge

The divisions between vampire subspecies that people have come up with remind me of of my old Palladium days! Specifically Nightspawn (later Nightbane). I really liked how they did the "types" of vampires.

First you've got Vampire Intelligences, which are horrible undulating elder god things that live in the cracks between dimensions. Physically, they look like pyramids of flesh, covered in tentacles, teeth, and a dominating single red eye.

Those inhuman creatures send out fragments of their essence to willing hosts, creating a Master Vampire. This is your romantic vampire of myth, the Dracula who makes a dark pact, the haughty evil lord completely devoid of humanity. They have many powers, and most of the classic weaknesses.

When one of the master vampires leaves a victim alive after feeding, it creates a Secondary Vampire. These are your "white wolf" vampires, the kind that have only a handful of powers, but few weaknesses. Most give into their bloodlust and become evil predators of the night, but it's possible for a strong-willed secondary vampire to remain morally good.

Although secondary vampires can create secondary vampires, the more likely outcome is a Wild Vampire, a nosferatu-like creature completely subservient to it's animistic instincts.

Lastly, there's the Wampire, which may be created by master or secondary vampires. They retain a great deal of their humanity, and often turn against their undead progenitors. They're closest to Dhampir's.

I gotta go dig out my Nightspawn books now. Tables upon tables...

Dark Archive

Originally, "vampir" is a creature from Serbian mythology - a warlock who has risen from the dead. The word itself comes from the word "upir", which means "unburned". Ancient Slavs, therefore Serbs as well, burned their dead, so that they would not rise. Interesting thing is that the warlocks in question were werewolves, really. One of the marks of a warlock was his ability to transform into wolf. The word "vampir" came into use in Europe in the 18th century when first reports of vampires from Serbia reached the court in Vienna. Here is the link to the story.


nightflier wrote:
Originally, "vampir" is a creature from Serbian mythology - a warlock who has risen from the dead. The word itself comes from the word "upir", which means "unburned". Ancient Slavs, therefore Serbs as well, burned their dead, so that they would not rise. Interesting thing is that the warlocks in question were werewolves, really. One of the marks of a warlock was his ability to transform into wolf. The word "vampir" came into use in Europe in the 18th century when first reports of vampires from Serbia reached the court in Vienna. Here is the link to the story.

I couldn't verify your etymology, but it is interesting. Certainly improperly (i.e., unburned) Hindus were believed to sometimes become vampire-like beings. Which kind of suggests a really old and widespread notion of the unquiet dead.

Dark Archive

Jeff de luna wrote:
nightflier wrote:
Originally, "vampir" is a creature from Serbian mythology - a warlock who has risen from the dead. The word itself comes from the word "upir", which means "unburned". Ancient Slavs, therefore Serbs as well, burned their dead, so that they would not rise. Interesting thing is that the warlocks in question were werewolves, really. One of the marks of a warlock was his ability to transform into wolf. The word "vampir" came into use in Europe in the 18th century when first reports of vampires from Serbia reached the court in Vienna. Here is the link to the story.
I couldn't verify your etymology, but it is interesting. Certainly improperly (i.e., unburned) Hindus were believed to sometimes become vampire-like beings. Which kind of suggests a really old and widespread notion of the unquiet dead.

I'm half Serb and half Wallachian, so vampires are integral part of the belief system in which I was raised. Later, I studied anthropology and comparative religion, among other things, so I know what I'm talking about. :) This theory of the origin of the word "vampir" was confirmed by Ljubinko Radenković, who is one of the leading demonologists (as person who studies mythological demonic and chtonic creatures, such as Baba Yaga, not person who summons demons) for ancient Slav mythology. I could recommend reading material, but the books I have are all in Serbian or Russian.


nightflier wrote:
Jeff de luna wrote:
nightflier wrote:
Originally, "vampir" is a creature from Serbian mythology - a warlock who has risen from the dead. The word itself comes from the word "upir", which means "unburned". Ancient Slavs, therefore Serbs as well, burned their dead, so that they would not rise. Interesting thing is that the warlocks in question were werewolves, really. One of the marks of a warlock was his ability to transform into wolf. The word "vampir" came into use in Europe in the 18th century when first reports of vampires from Serbia reached the court in Vienna. Here is the link to the story.
I couldn't verify your etymology, but it is interesting. Certainly improperly (i.e., unburned) Hindus were believed to sometimes become vampire-like beings. Which kind of suggests a really old and widespread notion of the unquiet dead.
I'm half Serb and half Wallachian, so vampires are integral part of the belief system in which I was raised. Later, I studied anthropology and comparative religion, among other things, so I know what I'm talking about. :) This theory of the origin of the word "vampir" was confirmed by Ljubinko Radenković, who is one of the leading demonologists (as person who studies mythological demonic and chtonic creatures, such as Baba Yaga, not person who summons demons) for ancient Slav mythology. I could recommend reading material, but the books I have are all in Serbian or Russian.

OK! That explains it. I know a little Russian, but probably not enough. Languages can be a great divider in folklore, myth, and early literature studies -- the latter are separated by language department in American and Western European Universities, at least. Thus we have supposed medieval literature specialists who can only read French and Latin, and Arthurian experts who know only English, French, and German... (sorry, mini-rant) None of my scholarly works on the subject seem to come to any conclusion on the word's origin. It seems that Slavic and Vlach legend researches are difficult to come by, and the American based language specialists are mostly focused on modern literature and politics.

Grand Lodge

This has been a big help, guys, thanks.
.
.
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Lots of folks have posted records of vampire myth here to help me get a handle on my OP, thanks -- though I will add that, probably like pretty much all gamers, I've done tons of research on these myths as well over the years.

I'm really trying to develop a D&D "Ecology of Vampires" kinda thing for my own Homebrew, working out all the different kinds of vampires in-game and especially the Fluff behind them --
where they come from,
why they are here,
how they are different
.

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Skaorn wrote:
I'd personally go with a standard undead type, one that is essentially a demon possessed corpse, and one that is essentially a ghost that feeds off of blood. (my bold

)

I hadn't really thought of putting the Incorporeal Vampire in this discussion but that was my mistake; it needs to be part of it.

I never really thought of any vampire types in my game as being Demon possessed undead but, especially considering many of the mythologies of vampires, it seems apropos.

The D&D incorporeal vampire, starting in 2E, was the Crimson Mist, though it was presented as only 1 possible explanation of the monster -- as it happens, the Crimson Mist as an incorporeal vampire is the one I adopted for my game (just cuz of Jander Sunstar).

In that case, the Crimson Mist was not a demon-ghost vampire but what results when a vampire is burned and the ashes are not spread apart. Thinking of your post, Skaorn, I like the idea of a Demon being able to reanimate those ash remains into a Crimson Mist.

Grand Lodge

Shadowborn,

I think I really the idea of the Nosferatu as being the original -- but I also like that it's more a corruption or disease, maybe even that their bite spreads the disease. I'm gonna have to play with that.

I also, then, like the idea of the Romantic Vampire being a curse -- like you say, maybe as the result of other beings' Arcane (actually Divine) manipulation -- but I think I'll go with a Deity's manipulation rather than some wizards. If Pelor or Lathander or Saranrae Cursed the orignal Vampire -- in the likeness of Nosferatu -- it can explain Vampires' response to Holy Symbols, not being able to enter homes uninvited and other religilous thingys.

Still, parts of it don't fit; I need more work (and suggestions).


I tend to give vampires levels of cleric or sorcerer spellcasting (depending on the flavor I want) rather then the abilities they gain in the standard template. Also, it is good to reflavor the special abilities.

I used a vampire recently who appeared as a very old woman in a wheelchair. She was decrepit because she had very little access to victims and didn't want to attract any vampire hunters. Instead of mist form she turned into rose petals. Her domination didn't feel like force, but created a sort of euphoric feeling surrounded by the smell of roses. She chose to live in a boarded up house with her one servant and a young "niece," never going out in the sun. But that was because she didn't want people to see her looking old, not because she was vulnerable to sunlight.

The party didn't figure out she was a vampire, but thought she was just a crazy serial killer. Only after they killed her and her addled servant wandered, newly undead, into their living room did they figure out what was going on. Of course, by that time, she had been transported to her ancestral home of Carrion Hill to be buried. There she had plenty to eat and was able to recover her younger form. I had her dominate one of her younger relatives who bore a remarkable resemblance to her, and the two shared one identity. So when the party tracks her down and starts looking at this young girl and making knowledge religion checks, they are once again puzzled that she isn't a vampire.


Other good source for RPGable vampires: The Dark Tower V: Wolves of the Calla, also with some kind of vampire spawning hierachy and the ties of vampires to the Taheen and the Crimson King
Also, the bug-like emotion eating demon in the white lands of emphatica from the Dark Tower series is good inspiration.

As for other sources, go through wikipedias lists on demons, for example the aswang fits (a witch who transforms at night into a giant mosquito that consumes life energy by sucking the shadow of someone)

On thing I forgot to mention up above of ghouls: in islam mythology, you can even use the term gûl just for "demon", as literature and movies already adapted: Ras-Al-Gul (head of the demon) from Batman, the Nazgûl of LotR

Shadowborn wrote:
Other than Blade and Vampire Hunter D, I've never been fond of the whole "daywalker," "half-vampire," genre. If the origin of the vampire is considered a curse, than perhaps rather than the old "my mother was bitten/raped by a vampire" bit, one could perhaps see it as an attempt by the cursed to redeem themselves, having found a way to slowly leech the evil taint from themselves (through good deeds/ritual cleansing/whatever) which leaves them with a portion of their original power, but without many of the weaknesses. Still, the temptation to backslide, not to mention the hunger for blood, is still strong and requires a disciplined mind to resist. (Again harkening back to White Wolf's game and the idea of achieving Golconda.)

Yeah, many potential of the idea of vampires isn´t used by all these "well, being a vampire means being superior to humans with some awesome powers and no mommy who tells me when to go to bed"-movies, series and books(my favorite vampire movie is still the remake of Nosferatu, with Kinski as perfect in his role to potray the lonesome, cursed, longing being a vampire should be)... on the other hand, simpleminded action is nice from time to time, explosions and battles and other stuff like in Blade and Underworld, as for kind-of-medieval-world RPGs, there´s not that much space to develop a vampires character

W E Ray wrote:


I hadn't really thought of putting the Incorporeal Vampire in this discussion but that was my mistake; it needs to be part of it.

Think about vampires who can become incorporeal at will - Dracula is able to transform himself to mist, Lucy is able to walk trough a small crack even in "corporeal" form, the vampire girls at Draculas castle only appear as floathing ghostlike beings

W E Ray wrote:
but I think I'll go with a Deity's manipulation rather than some wizards. If Pelor or Lathander or Saranrae Cursed the orignal Vampire -- in the likeness of Nosferatu -- it can explain Vampires' response to Holy Symbols, not being able to enter homes uninvited and other religilous thingys.

I´ve some trouble imagining merciful gods putting eternal damnation on people... think of a curse like a disease (since diseases occured as curses to people who never heard of bacteria or any modern medicine), close to the world of ghosts/demons, the reaction to holy symbols and holy ground springing from the great impurity of the cursed ones (if you are a vampire, you live from stolen life, so purifying you means killing you)


Ksorkrax wrote:
Think about vampires who can become incorporeal at will - Dracula is able to transform himself to mist, Lucy is able to walk trough a small crack even in "corporeal" form, the vampire girls at Draculas castle only appear as floathing ghostlike beings

The sources I'm using for incorporial vampires are more Chinese hungry ghosts, Japanese gaki that fed on blood, and New England vampires. I don't remember the exact date as it's been a while and I don't remember the dates, other then it was before the American Revolution, but there was a vampire epidemic in New England. The epidemic was most likely TB, but the idea that it was spirits rising from the grave and attacking their families while they slept. This caring fo the sick obvously didn't encounter any walking corpses but they did find things like corpses who hadn't decayed and had blood on their lips.

As a side note, I have a friend who has an ancestor who was dug up and placed in a church in the Phillipines because he hadn't decomposed. They did this because they didn't know if he was a Saint or a Vampire.

@W E Ray: If you haven't, watch the original Being Human. I liked it a lot better and I liked things that they seem to ignore in the US version like the fact that they don't show up in mirrors and that they can't drink blood from a blood bank (things I believe they they can do in the US version). Their are several other reasons I like it better but it really doesn't fit here.

If you do use vampires who are not demonically created and ones who are at the same time you could have the non-demonic ones have alignments other then CE as they aren't actually being animated be demons. So you could get the regular undead that have some of their humanity but usually colored by their hunger to be some shade of evil.

I like the idea for the crimson mist. One thing I've thought of throwing into one of my games is a type of Vampire that ranks up with Dracula or Strod to use a DnD source. Essentially they are exceptional humans that made pacts with a Demon or Devil, double crossed the entity, and gained its power rather then loosing their soul.


Skaorn wrote:

(snip)

I like the idea for the crimson mist. One thing I've thought of throwing into one of my games is a type of Vampire that ranks up with Dracula or Strod to use a DnD source. Essentially they are exceptional humans that made pacts with a Demon or Devil, double crossed the entity, and gained its power rather then loosing their soul.

That is what Dracula did in the original Stoker novel-- he made a pact with the devil, possibly through his studies at the "Scholomance"- school of necromancy, or perhaps "Solomanari." A lot of vampires, from our modern viewpoint, seem to be accidents, or unfortunate victims. They just didn't get the proper rites, fell victim to disease, or whatnot. Vampires creating other vampires seems to be pretty rare as a cause. I remember reading (perhaps in Vampires, Burial, and Death by Paul Barber, but I'm not sure), that some types of earth preserve bodies really well. Regions of the Balkans and Greece with these soils tended to have more prevalent vampire legends. Of course, in your game, it could be the cthonic earth itself that is spawning them...

Dark Archive

W E Ray wrote:

I hadn't really thought of putting the Incorporeal Vampire in this discussion but that was my mistake; it needs to be part of it.

I never really thought of any vampire types in my game as being Demon possessed undead but, especially considering many of the mythologies of vampires, it seems apropos.

Having some sort of spectral misty-formed undead (or aberration or outsider) that slithers into a sleeping or unconscious human body and raises it up as sleepwalker, and then oozes forth when it is done using the body to do whatever it needs done, leaving the unconscious human with no knowledge of his 'vampiric' activities, could be neat.

The 'sleepwalker' wakes up with blood on his lips, a razor in his hands and a corpse at his feet. He might even have some residual charge of energy from the leftovers of the feast (some sort of buff effect, or perhaps a rage spell?), while the misty intruder is happily fed and moves on. The next night, it will pick another sleeping clueless victim, possibly in another town entirely, leaving behind a trail of patsies, holding the blade for the murders it has committed to feed.


I think the Liber Vampyr, HERE, has much of what you want.

Grand Lodge

Skaorn wrote:
.... a type of Vampire that ranks up with Dracula or Strod ....

You are officially put on the BlackList for people who are never, ever allowed to talk about vampires in D&D for the heresy you comitted -- misspelling Strahd's name.

Shame on you.

------------------------------------------------

But thanks for the recommendation of watching the original Being Human; when I saw that the new series was a remake I knew I wanted to try to watch the original. I dunno, I guess my personality enjoys British entertainment more than the Hollywood slop America produces -- and I also like the original Dark Shadows more than the late 80s remake which sucked as bad as WotC. But alas, I barely have time to breathe and eat, let alone find some DVDs of the original and watch it.

I will try though.


W E Ray wrote:


You are officially put on the BlackList for people who are never, ever allowed to talk about vampires in D&D for the heresy you comitted -- misspelling Strahd's name.

Shame on you.

Sorry I'm used to spelling "Strahd" as "not-Dracula" ;p. I spell the other Darklords this way:

"not-the Wolfman"
"not-the Monster"
"not-the Mummy"
"not-Mr. Hyde"
and one of my favorites, "not-Darth Vader" :D

Grand Lodge

Nice.


I'm working on a Vampire Unicorn.
Basicly, some jerk kills a unicorn, takes it's horn, and leaves it to rot. The spirit of the unicorn fights it's way back and discovers it's not the same. It drinks blood, grows a new, less pretty, horn, and starts looking for payback. It can turn horses and cows, but not other unicorns.
My point being, the first undead simply tries to fight it's way back to life, and gets what it deserves.


In my Kaidan setting like old Japan, vampires, as in 'blood drinking' undead didn't really exist - though vampires are popular in current Japanese horror. There were lots of ghouls, however, and yurei ghosts that derived some kind of energy from their victims, so similar, but different.

Kaidan has three different types of ghouls, and several yurei life energy drinkers. So I don't plan to include a Japanese vampire, as the concept that most westerners know is not a part of their folklore. Looking at it as demon possessed corpses, is very much like Kaidan undead. It depends on how one looks at the concept of vampire.

Kaidan is more authentic to 19th century and previous legend and folklore, not any modern cimema, nor amime concepts.


W E Ray wrote:

Shadowborn,

I think I really the idea of the Nosferatu as being the original -- but I also like that it's more a corruption or disease, maybe even that their bite spreads the disease. I'm gonna have to play with that.

I also, then, like the idea of the Romantic Vampire being a curse -- like you say, maybe as the result of other beings' Arcane (actually Divine) manipulation -- but I think I'll go with a Deity's manipulation rather than some wizards. If Pelor or Lathander or Saranrae Cursed the orignal Vampire -- in the likeness of Nosferatu -- it can explain Vampires' response to Holy Symbols, not being able to enter homes uninvited and other religilous thingys.

Still, parts of it don't fit; I need more work (and suggestions).

So the Nosferatu would be more akin to a ghoul then, by having just the bite spread the corruption. That's a cool concept. It actually makes the creature more dangerous. Rather than having to kill the victim to make them rise as one of the undead, they merely need to feed on them and let the disease take its course.

For the Romantic Vampire, I wasn't looking at it as a curse so much as opportunistic mages taking what originally started as a divine curse and turning it into a boon. A group of early necromancers may have looked at the Nosferatu and seen its immortality as an alternative to lichdom, taking it for themselves.

Ksorkrax wrote:
Yeah, many potential of the idea of vampires isn´t used by all these "well, being a vampire means being superior to humans with some awesome powers and no mommy who tells me when to go to bed"-movies, series and books(my favorite vampire movie is still the remake of Nosferatu, with Kinski as perfect in his role to potray the lonesome, cursed, longing being a vampire should be)... on the other hand, simpleminded action is nice from time to time, explosions and battles and other stuff like in Blade and Underworld, as for kind-of-medieval-world RPGs, there´s not that much space to develop a vampires character

Which is why I suggested the idea of allowing a person to fight their vampiric nature, allowing for an individual to fight the curse, grasping at the idea of redemption to pull out of the darkness. It might be a hard sell for anyone but a heavy roleplayer, though, because a lot of gamers wouldn't want to lose power for the sake of roleplay.


W E Ray wrote:


My "Plea to the Lords of the Boards":

How would you differentiate the original "different" vampire types?

Nosferatu, an uglier, less human-like monster, more primal and preternatural, not at all Romantic -- but where did the first one come from? How come it's different than vampires?

Vampire, the darkly Romantic, beautiful in a feral way, brilliant and passionate -- and where did that first one come from?

Vampyr, and what the heck could this be? I like the idea of adding an "h" to make it "Vhampyr," making it similar to Dhampir (replacing Dhampir, actually), and arguing that it can actually function -- at much reduced power -- during the day. But what could its origin be?

. . . .

Also, I'd like to do the same with Ghoul and Ghul.

How could they be different? Certainly there's a difference between The Skinsaw Man and the nameless ghoul PCs kill.

I can give a few ideas:

Nosferatu: Plauge is a viscious killer, sweeping through towns and citys leaving thousands of scarred and horrid corpses in its wake. Traditional burials are impossible as cemetatrys become flooded with the dead. Those without money or power to provide for preferencial treatment are destines to have their corpse cast into a coffinless mass grave. But thousands of sick leaves time for only a cursory diagnosis. Some are cast into the grave still feebly clinging to life. As these sesperate souls claw desperately towards the surface, most perish in the choking depths. But for some, the primal struggle to exist is stronger even than death. From their twisted psyches and plague scarred bodies came the Nosferatu.


One legend is the projecting vampire. Basically the soul of the deceased goes out and steals blood to keep their corpse from decaying. It might appear as a crimson mist. It can also appear as it did in life, but translucent. The Supernatural method works for this. Find their bones and burn them.

Grand Lodge

Wow, Goth, I hadn't really put that into my bag of ideas either but I like it. And it does, you're right, have precedence.

So now I've got to take the time to distinguish between vampire types that have been cursed as opposed to ones who carry disease, those who are Romantic vs those who are gross, those who have supernatural abilities, from projection to animal morphing to gaseousness, etc., to those who are vulnerable to Divine barriers such as garlic, mirrors, peoples' homes & wooden stakes and finally, to those who can function, at least a bit, during daylight.

I think this will be a fun project.

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