Kain Darkwind |

Black Fang wrote:What is the reach for a large whip wielded by a large humanoid shaped creature?5 ft. more

A whip has 15 ft. reach, or triple rather than double.

If you assume a large whip is proportionately larger, it would produce 30 ft. reach. If you look at the rules, a balor is a Large creature wielding a Large whip and has 20 ft. reach with the whip, which is identical to the reach with a Large longspear according to the equipment chapter.

"Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away."

erik542 |

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erik542 wrote:Black Fang wrote:What is the reach for a large whip wielded by a large humanoid shaped creature?5 ft. moreA whip has 15 ft. reach, or triple rather than double.

If you assume a large whip is proportionately larger, it would produce 30 ft. reach. If you look at the rules, a balor is a Large creature wielding a Large whip and has 20 ft. reach with the whip, which is identical to the reach with a Large longspear according to the equipment chapter.

"Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away."

Actually pointing out the Balor example proves my point. The whip itself only grants 10ft. additional reach. Since the Balor is large, it has a natural reach of 10 ft. Adding 10 ft. gives it the indicated 20. Tripling the reach would yield a result of 30 ft.

Kain Darkwind |

That's what I said. I wasn't disagreeing with your answer, merely giving more information.

The equipment rules, as well as common sense, would suggest that if a 5ft. tall person uses a 15ft. whip, a 10ft. tall person would use a 30 ft. long one, since a longspear increases a Large creature's reach to 20 ft., and a whip is longer than that.

However, the monster rules, the only official version of a Large whip in use we have, shows us that it gives +10 ft. reach, over the balor's existing 10 ft. reach. Presumably they would have a longspear give the balor +5 ft. reach, for 15 ft.

Doomed Hero |

That's what I said. I wasn't disagreeing with your answer, merely giving more information.

The equipment rules, as well as common sense, would suggest that if a 5ft. tall person uses a 15ft. whip, a 10ft. tall person would use a 30 ft. long one, since a longspear increases a Large creature's reach to 20 ft., and a whip is longer than that.

However, the monster rules, the only official version of a Large whip in use we have, shows us that it gives +10 ft. reach, over the balor's existing 10 ft. reach. Presumably they would have a longspear give the balor +5 ft. reach, for 15 ft.

I suspect the balor's whip reach is a typo/holdover from the previous edition.

Kain's reasoning is sound. If a normal reach weapon provides double a creatures natural reach, then a whip provides triple.

Doomed Hero |

The problem with ruling reach as "double" or "triple" base is tiny and smaller creatures. A tiny creature with a longspear has base reach 0, and +5feet from the longspear. This gives it a reach of 5feet. If you rule that the longspear only doubles, then its reach is 2x0, or still 0.

True. The entire face/reach system tends to break down at those scales though, not just the reach mechanics.

Galnörag |

Anyone ever get a coherrent answer, or better yet a canon answer in this question?

I figure we have three competing options

1. Reach doubles, so 30 feet

2. the valor stat block, 20 feet

3. The algebraic version, whip doubles natural reach +5, so a medium creature has 2*5+ x = 15 (so x is 5) so a large sized whip would be 10*2+x=25.

Baroh Steelcleave |

The Balor has a +30 to attack with its whip.

If we break this down: he has a STR of 35, which would give it a strength modifier of 12 (35-10=25, 25/2 = 12.5) and a BAB of +20. So, that's +32 total. Factor in two weapon fighting penalties: 32-2=30. Add in the enhancement bonus of the whip: 30+1=31. Add in the size modifier for being large: 31-1=30.

If the weapon was inappropriately sized for him, there'd be a 1 size category difference between him (large) and a whip that grants +10ft of reach (medium). That'd be another -2 penalty for his attack.

The Balor has "Whip Mastery" though, and treats it as a Light Weapon for the purposes of two-weapon fighting. Is this because it's a Medium Whip? I don't know.

Weapon size rules tell us: "In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder"

A whip is normally a one-handed weapon, but the Balor treats it as a light weapon. So, with it being one-handed weapon (-1 size category) and medium (-1 size category) might be why he treats it as a light weapon via "Whip Mastery," but doesn't explain the lack of an additional -2 attack penalty...

....unless I missed a +2 attack bonus somewhere, I think this guy has a typo in either the attack or the reach. His treasure doesn't list his weapons as being large either, so I'm sort of inclined to side with him wielding a medium whip. Or is there no inappropriate size category penalty due to it being considered a light weapon for his creature size?

Horselord |

In older editions, the balor used a scourge instead of a whip. The point being to entangle foes and drag them into its fire aura.

I am under the impression that a whip appropriately sized for a character with improved whip mastery can attack at up to triple his natural reach and threatens out to double his natural reach.

I am unclear as to what the attack range and reach are for, say, a medium character using a large whip in 2 hands, or a huge scorpion whip in 2 hands.

Joex The Pale |

I am unclear as to what the attack range and reach are for, say, a medium character using a large whip in 2 hands, or a huge scorpion whip in 2 hands.

I am very interested in a ruling on this, as I am creating a whip-themed character and wielding a large whip 2-handed opens some interesting options.