Keep their ki pool on Charisma. Link their AC bonus to Intelligence. Present the Ninja tricks as new Rogue Talents.
Force of personality is never a detriment. Force of personality is your ability to make someone look where you want them to look, feel what you want them to feel, and do what you want them to do.
For a master of misdirection, an infiltrator, a spy, your ability to sell your persona and convince others you are what you appear to be is worth far more than your ability to understand what you're seeing.
Mystical abilities of Ninja, not Rogue. They have different training mentalities & thematics, so it makes sense for the primary focus ability to be different.
Reading people & noticing something is just as crucial, if not more so, to a spy and that's where the wisdom comes it.
Then again if the ninja class is done right you should have time to take 20 on that perception check. No one should notice you anyway.
However, we're talking mystical powers obtained through disciplined training, though. How does that not scream Int or Wis over Cha?
Psh you can only be born a ninja "training" is just showing off. ;)
Keep their ki pool on Charisma. Link their AC bonus to Intelligence. Present the Ninja tricks as new Rogue Talents.
That would seriously nerf the ninja class as it would make it a MAD class.
Str/dex for attacks, Cha for ki AND Int for AC. As well as the Wis/Con that's always good.The class would have no dump-stat.
(I personally don't like to dump stats, but too many ability dependencies really hurt a class).
Either Wis for Ki and AC (same as monk), or Cha for Ki and AC.
I'm all for a ninja without armor, they should use hit and run tactics, not frontline combat.
But if that's the case, then we need to add a special stat that only Ninja's get called 'Batman', or some derivative of it, which powers all Ninja abilities.
CHA is a special stat, just a bit different then everyone else
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I think there is totally too much 80íes movies and Konami Video Games spirit around here. IF some things wanted here and in other threads are going to happen, then the ninja totally needs a ninja suit along with hood and tabis, not counting as armor but acting so, granting disguise on will as well as superior climb and acrobatics boni while giving AC bonus with max DEX at no AP. Oh and since its black its granting stealth boost as well and from 5th level on the ability to hide in plain sight. And i forgot anyone who wears such armor can one shot kill oponents with shuriken by aiming at their throat or so, maybe on critical hit 15-20 save or die.
And hey, go along by making ninja WIS dependant, it makes so much sense raising Will save while lowering a undercovers, spies, scouts and assasins ability to disguise, bluff and whatever. The AC bonus is fine too, no matter what score. For example my ninja would at level 10 now have +7 AC for free, +DEX, +Deflection and Dodge boni. Instead of needing to get an armor i need to pay for that eventually gives me armor penalty. And i can just get Bracers of Armor, like +5 because i dont want to buy Celestial Armor anymore. I really like that idea!
I think there is totally too much 80íes movies and Konami Video Games spirit around here. IF some things wanted here and in other threads are going to happen, then the ninja totally needs a ninja suit along with hood and tabis, not counting as armor but acting so, granting disguise on will as well as superior climb and acrobatics boni while giving AC bonus with max DEX at no AP. Oh and since its black its granting stealth boost as well and from 5th level on the ability to hide in plain sight. And i forgot anyone who wears such armor can one shot kill oponents with shuriken by aiming at their throat or so, maybe on critical hit 15-20 save or die.
And hey, go along by making ninja WIS dependant, it makes so much sense raising Will save while lowering a undercovers, spies, scouts and assasins ability to disguise, bluff and whatever. The AC bonus is fine too, no matter what score. For example my ninja would at level 10 now have +7 AC for free, +DEX, +Deflection and Dodge boni. Instead of needing to get an armor i need to pay for that eventually gives me armor penalty. And i can just get Bracers of Armor, like +5 because i dont want to buy Celestial Armor anymore. I really like that idea!
That was hard to put together, but uh yeah paizo stated they are going for the 80's movie/konami game ninja, so....
The thing is, if you give the ninja abilties dependant from INT or WIS, you make him just more powerful, raising his skill points or will save. Same with AC like a monk. Seriously the ninja i play would heavily profit from all of that. Higher AC, more skill points and higher will save. Actually i put two points into WIS only for the will save.
I think the CHA score is fine for that and fits very well.
The thing is, if you give the ninja abilties dependant from INT or WIS, you make him just more powerful, raising his skill points or will save. Same with AC like a monk. Seriously the ninja i play would heavily profit from all of that. Higher AC, more skill points and higher will save. Actually i put two points into WIS only for the will save.
I think the CHA score is fine for that and fits very well.
You may want to recheck the thread, I was on your side ;)
In this case my apologies, seems i was in a flurry^^
I have to admitt, the more i think about this change, the more i like it.
Lowering CHA would have me to rethink the character as seductress, fooling her enemies untill its too late, but even only applying the AC dependant on CHA would be soooo nice, saving a lot of cost hehe. Seems i have to talk to my DM about this, only need some other source for the slick and shadow qualities then. Perhaps create a greasy resistant Chameleon Cape....ah munchkinism.
In this case my apologies, seems i was in a flurry^^
I have to admitt, the more i think about this change, the more i like it.
Lowering CHA would have me to rethink the character as seductress, fooling her enemies untill its too late, but even only applying the AC dependant on CHA would be soooo nice, saving a lot of cost hehe. Seems i have to talk to my DM about this, only need some other source for the slick and shadow qualities then. Perhaps create a greasy resistant Chameleon Cape....ah munchkinism.
You don't need AC, like I've always said, armor is just a way of saying you expect to get hit. In the ninja's case AC is saying you expect to ever be seen.
Smoke bombs, invisibility, mirror image, etc. I love the amount of confusion you can throw on the battlefield
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The thing is, if you give the ninja abilties dependant from INT or WIS, you make him just more powerful, raising his skill points or will save. Same with AC like a monk. Seriously the ninja i play would heavily profit from all of that. Higher AC, more skill points and higher will save. Actually i put two points into WIS only for the will save.
I think the CHA score is fine for that and fits very well.
Yeah, a lot of the suggestions here infringe on the mechanics of the monk. Using CHA for Ki and an AC bonus in no armor fits fine. Ninjas are not typically depicted as serene and wise, but rather as forceful and aggressive.