Would you buy a printed rules update / errata?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


After some discussions on what the next version of Pathfinder should be, the general consensus seems to be that people don't want a new version any time soon (myself included). I doubt anyone wants a repeat of 3.5, which came out only three years after the release of 3.0, rendering a lot of books obsolete. After all, we chose to Pathfinder out of a lot of alternatives, so there must be something we like. If it ain't broken, don't fix it!

However, there are some debatable qualms people have with the current rules, which are hard to fix with just supplements. These include skills such as craft and stealth which are shoddily implemented (it can take years to craft a single dose of poison), prestige classes such as the pathfinder chronicler and the assassin are lacking in power while classes like the summoner can be very overpowering when played correctly and the fighter's inability to contribute outside of combat. A lot of these problems could be solved with simple tweaking, but the policy so far seems to have been to fix things with supplements (such as the huge power boost the barbarian gained in the Advanced Player's Guide).

Now, instead of just tacking on more and more features to the classes to bring them up to par, and leaving dodgy rules untouched, would you consider buying an update of the rules? This would cover all the books that would be out so far (up to Ultimate Combat, which is the latest release I know of) and give the subjects at hand a rewrite. Having this organized and printed would allow groups to quickly look things up at the game table. And another question, if the Paizo gang read this: would you ever consider releasing something like this?


I bought the Rules Compendiums for both 3.5 and 4.0, and would buy a similar book for PF too.


Overall, the rules are fine. There is nothing that you can put out this will ever satisfy the world as a whole and that is why rule 0 is there. If there are parts of the game you do not like go ahead and house rule it to your liking.

They have put out errata as needed and the game will grow and evolve as new books come back out. I would rather they continue to make new books with new content and not spend time and costs on rewriting what is 99% great stuff.

Just my 2 bits.


If it was released as a pdf in a very simple and concise, printer friendly format I would be willing to spend a couple of dollars on it so that I could put the pages in my core rulebook where the rules are updated.


No, I would not buy an update of the rules, at least not as you describe it. What you're proposing (if I understand you correctly) seems like a half-measure that may create more problems than it solves.

I'd prefer to live with the warts until a new edition is released. However, I do suspect my tolerance for new editions is probably much higher than that of many (most) others.

Sovereign Court

I'm going to say no as well, it'd be a distraction for Paizo and not something I'd spend money on.

Actual errata and clarifications I'm happy to print out and a lot of the issues for one group that seem important (say, the crafting rules) are not at all an issue for other groups. It's all relative to your game and your players.

I dread the idea of a Pathfinder RPG.5.... *shudder-shudder*

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I would not, but it is due to the fact that I will be having Lulu print me a book of the 3.X ruleset containing my own changes. I will truly make the game my own when I do that.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I would not, but it is due to the fact that I will be having Lulu print me a book of the 3.X ruleset containing my own changes. I will truly make the game my own when I do that.

Interesting idea. Just out of curiosity, how much is vanilla 3.5, how much PF and how much houserule (and in what areas)?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Aw geez. I'm going to say 50% houserule, 40% 3.5, and 10% PF. PF rules are mostly base mechanics, 3.5 stuff is base mechanics and spells, houserules are base mechanic tweaks, classes/feats/equipment/spells/races/etc.


Interesting idea TOZ. I would have to say, if Kirth Gersen offered his rules through Lulu or something like that, I'd buy a copy.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Well, the plan is to have Lulu prints made once version 2 has been playtested and proofread to a stable point.


Morgen wrote:

Actual errata and clarifications I'm happy to print out and a lot of the issues for one group that seem important (say, the crafting rules) are not at all an issue for other groups. It's all relative to your game and your players.

I played plenty back in the days of Basic and 1st Ed AD&D and I know what it is like to have to house rule because you sometimes had no idea what the real intent of a vague rule was meant to be. But in this modern day with the internet and pdf updates and such, I do not want to have to do that any longer. It is much easier now to get what the real intent of a rule is and then decide whether you need to house rule it or not. Using the magic item crafting rules as an example, if Paizo were to put out a 20-30 page pdf clarifying, updating and revamping this system and making it available for download for a dollar or two, I would buy it.

As for a Rules Compendium type of book, I would love to see a book that took all the game mechanics from their old 3.5 books that are not ever going to be updated to PRPG and re-issued and have those mechanics updated and released in a single book. After all, the Pathfinder RPG does not have anywhere near the flaws and issues of 3.5 or 4th that would require the type of rules compendium that those systems got.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Aw geez. I'm going to say 50% houserule, 40% 3.5, and 10% PF. PF rules are mostly base mechanics, 3.5 stuff is base mechanics and spells, houserules are base mechanic tweaks, classes/feats/equipment/spells/races/etc.

I'd considered doing a PDF covering houserules for my players. Never really thought of doing it all as a physical book(s). Nice idea. Right now I'm tinkering with variant magic systems for the different spell casting classes. We'll see how that goes...


I'd have to say yes if it was under $10 Printed and like $2 PDF (Which I dislike personally). If it was a total reprint of the Core Rulebook with the changes, most likely not. That's just too steep a price to kick out for me.

Have Fun out there!!

~ W ~


Oh, and what the heck is Lulu? I can have something printed? I am intrigued!

Have Fun out there!!

~ W ~

Shadow Lodge

No. The PDFs are continuously updated and the PDF errata are availible. And really, I haven't seen any errors that are really all that bad. Most of the time I'll just roll with whatever is in what I'm using as a reference at the moment, whether that be my actual physical rulebook, the PDF version of the rulebook, or HeroLab.


Not really. I've bought 3rd printing of the core rules eith quite a few changes incorporated and may consider buying another printing later as long as the changes are incorporated. Having the changes included is really a thousand times better than any amount of compendiums, because that's just another book you need to refer to. I can do that with internet, or play with what I have, but the last thing I want is to carry another book with me. There are better candidates for it's place (APG, Ultimates, Bestiaries and so on). I have PDFs and the PRD to print chapters or rules that I'd need specifically.


Have to agree, no, I would not buy it. Paizo offers free errata downloads, I can't see them following the idiocy of That Which Shall Not Be Named that has caused large chunks of the Fan-Base to walk away.

Now, if there was a really big change for Paizo, I could see a few options opening up.

PDFs. If you have bought the Core Rulebook before, Paizo offers the new version (Pathfinder 2.0? 1.5?) at half cost, as a thank-you for your patronage.

Physical Copies. Cut out the Credits Page of the Manual in Question, not photo-copy, not fax it off, cut the page out to prove that, yes, you DO actually have a physical copy. Paizo will sell you the new version of the manual at half price, but you still have to eat the shipping fees, which seems fair to me.

Paizo pats their fans on the heads, the fans get their new shinies at a very fair* price, and everybody wins.

*Depends entirely upon the market, Paizo's profit margins, the number of sales they think they can make on the new product and whether or not it will still be 3.5 compatible or will need to be severed from that legacy completely to make the whole system 'work'.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I can actually say for certain I wouldn't buy a compendium. I'm not buying the Inner Sea Guide because it's not 100% new material. I might pick up the PDF, since they rock awesome prices for things like that, but I don't need another print copy on my shelf.

Wallsingham wrote:
Oh, and what the heck is Lulu? I can have something printed? I am intrigued!

A print on demand site. Lots of small RPG publishers put their books there so they don't have to invest in print runs that may not sell. You can submit a PDF to them and they will print it for a reasonable price, and you can make it a private thing or have them put it out there for anyone to buy a copy.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:
Physical Copies. Cut out the Credits Page of the Manual in Question, not photo-copy, not fax it off, cut the page out to prove that, yes, you DO actually have a physical copy. Paizo will sell you the new version of the manual at half price, but you still have to eat the shipping fees, which seems fair to me.

Where is this posted at?


Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:
Physical Copies. Cut out the Credits Page of the Manual in Question, not photo-copy, not fax it off, cut the page out to prove that, yes, you DO actually have a physical copy. Paizo will sell you the new version of the manual at half price, but you still have to eat the shipping fees, which seems fair to me.
Where is this posted at?

It's posted nowhere. I offered it up as a suggestion that, if Paizo did indeed come out with a 'pay for the errata' shenanigan (which I assume they won't as it'd be akin to stabbing their fanbase in the neck during the middle of a love-in), that cutting out that page, sending a check or money-order with your postage details enclosed to Paizo so that you can claim your discounted Errata in a physical form could be an option.


Ellington wrote:
A lot of these problems could be solved with simple tweaking, but the policy so far seems to have been to fix things with supplements

I would certainly support such an endeavor.

Pathfinder addressed many issues in 3.5 but not all by far. If they took the step further I would certainly support them in it.

I didn't purchase the WotC 3.5 rules compendium as it was imho drek. Paizo however has a much, much better commitment to quality and if they really focused on doing this then I would value it more highly than any two supplements of 'new' material easily.

The method of balancing/tweaking by extra/new material was WotC's paradigm and Paizo has better acumen and sense than that.

Having sections detailing combat maneuvers, more obscure rules combinations and the like would be useful for both beginner and advanced players.

In essence I think that it would improve the game, which should be everyone's goal here.

-James

Sovereign Court

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
I played plenty back in the days of Basic and 1st Ed AD&D and I know what it is like to have to house rule because you sometimes had no idea what the real intent of a vague rule was meant to be. But in this modern day with the internet and pdf updates and such, I do not want to have to do that any longer. It is much easier now to get what the real intent of a rule is and then decide whether you need to house rule it or not. Using the magic item crafting rules as an example, if Paizo were to put out a 20-30 page pdf clarifying, updating and revamping this system and making it available for download for a dollar or two, I would buy it.

Yeah, but as I said it's different for different groups. We've been playing since the beta release biweekly and haven't house ruled anything. The only slightly ambiguous thing we've had come up was charging with Vital Strike which the GM decided he didn't mind. Not every group sees the same rules as vague or unusual.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
If Paizo were to put out a 20-30 page pdf clarifying, updating and revamping this system and making it available for download for a dollar or two, I would buy it.

Since there seems to be some confusion, this is along the lines of what I had in mind. Not a full-fledged book, but something similar in size to Adventure Paths with rule updates, clarifications and tweaks available at a low price.


TriOmegaZero wrote:

I can actually say for certain I wouldn't buy a compendium. I'm not buying the Inner Sea Guide because it's not 100% new material. I might pick up the PDF, since they rock awesome prices for things like that, but I don't need another print copy on my shelf.

Wallsingham wrote:
Oh, and what the heck is Lulu? I can have something printed? I am intrigued!
A print on demand site. Lots of small RPG publishers put their books there so they don't have to invest in print runs that may not sell. You can submit a PDF to them and they will print it for a reasonable price, and you can make it a private thing or have them put it out there for anyone to buy a copy.

Thanks Tri!!!

Have Fun out there!!

~ W ~

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would think that folks would need to take heed when modifying and re-printing physical copies copyrighted materials. That seems like a fairly slippery slope...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Ah, the beauty of the OGL. :)

Dark Archive

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I would not, but it is due to the fact that I will be having Lulu print me a book of the 3.X ruleset containing my own changes. I will truly make the game my own when I do that.

Pretty much the same.


Ellington wrote:
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
If Paizo were to put out a 20-30 page pdf clarifying, updating and revamping this system and making it available for download for a dollar or two, I would buy it.
Since there seems to be some confusion, this is along the lines of what I had in mind. Not a full-fledged book, but something similar in size to Adventure Paths with rule updates, clarifications and tweaks available at a low price.

I think it would only be worth it if it was specifically designed and marketed as a book of optional/clearer rules for existing mechanics. Encourage GMs to use it instead of the core book, sell it packaged with the core book, and design new material with it in mind (although it should be compatable with both), but don't make breaking changes to the already published material and sell it. Breaking changes are for free errata (like the change to magic weapon enchantment limits being discussed on the rules forum), not for a new publication.

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