Confusion on firearms


Gunslinger Discussion: Round 1


I'm been trying to figure something out about firearms I read in a thread. It stated that firearms bypass damage reduction. Is this correct?


Jo Bo wrote:
I'm been trying to figure something out about firearms I read in a thread. It stated that firearms bypass damage reduction. Is this correct?

They were misreading the rules. Ignore that reference.

Liberty's Edge

Specifically, it's one of the various references to "attack rolls with spells" that's been a problem with the Gunslinger.

They can't use Deadly Aim (on the first range increment) because Deadly Aim specifically states that it does not apply to ranged touch attacks. When Deadly Aim was written, all Ranged Touch attacks were considered to come from spells, wands, and spellcasting classes; Guns as Touch Attacks messed that up.

Likewise, there's a passage somewhere in the core book that states touch attacks ignore Damage Reduction; again, this is because, when the rule was written, all touch attacks were assumed to come from spells and magic.

It's honestly not clear how to treat the current version of Guns and the Gunslinger under these rules; an updated playtest is coming "soon".

I suggest shelving whatever idea you've got until then.


At least one dev has stated that firearms bypass DR.


I don't see how a Ranged Touch attack from a firearm would be able to bypass DR. But I could understand the kinetic force of the bullet ignoring DR. I guess I will wait a while to see what the updates to the playtest reveal. Thank you for the information.


Jo Bo wrote:
I don't see how a Ranged Touch attack from a firearm would be able to bypass DR. But I could understand the kinetic force of the bullet ignoring DR. I guess I will wait a while to see what the updates to the playtest reveal. Thank you for the information.

I am still trying figure out how firearms are touch attacks. Ignoring Armor Bonuses, maybe, but Natural Armor Bonuses? That just doesn't make sense. At some point skin is just too thick to notice. Some of these creatures have +20 or more Natural Armor bonus (with no DR).


I don't think I can apologize enough for this confusion. I was one of the first who started perpetrating this misconception. It is wrong, and Stephen (the dev) most likely may a mistake when he said what he did.


Windquake wrote:
Jo Bo wrote:
I don't see how a Ranged Touch attack from a firearm would be able to bypass DR. But I could understand the kinetic force of the bullet ignoring DR. I guess I will wait a while to see what the updates to the playtest reveal. Thank you for the information.
I am still trying figure out how firearms are touch attacks. Ignoring Armor Bonuses, maybe, but Natural Armor Bonuses? That just doesn't make sense. At some point skin is just too thick to notice. Some of these creatures have +20 or more Natural Armor bonus (with no DR).

I think they are saying it's a touch attack mainly because of the force of the projectile. A turtle has great natural armor but shooting the shell at a close range will still penetrate a good bit through it. Even with a blackpowder weapon. I thinks that's where they are going with it.

Liberty's Edge

Again, this is one of the issues with current (alpha) version of guns and the gunslinger. When the core rules were written, it was assumed that all touch attacks and ranged touch attacks would always come from spells.

Everything in every book and supplement that has been published up to this point (2010 and earlier) is going to be based on this now-flawed assumption.

Guns and the Gunslinger, as they stand right now, are not all that playable. They work, technically, and one can sort-of cobble together a decent character in the low and mid levels, but there are numerous problems, rules conflicts, and unexpected flaws caused or revealed by the current (alpha) rules for Guns and the Gunslinger.

Unless you are already playing a gunslinger, I suggest going with a Ranger or Fighter and using a Heavy Crossbow, at least from a mechanics perceptive.

The developers have said there will be a new set of playtest classes within a week or two. The Crossbow Character should hold you mechanically until then.


BobChuck wrote:

Again, this is one of the issues with current (alpha) version of guns and the gunslinger. When the core rules were written, it was assumed that all touch attacks and ranged touch attacks would always come from spells.

Everything in every book and supplement that has been published up to this point (2010 and earlier) is going to be based on this now-flawed assumption.

Guns and the Gunslinger, as they stand right now, are not all that playable. They work, technically, and one can sort-of cobble together a decent character in the low and mid levels, but there are numerous problems, rules conflicts, and unexpected flaws caused or revealed by the current (alpha) rules for Guns and the Gunslinger.

Unless you are already playing a gunslinger, I suggest going with a Ranger or Fighter and using a Heavy Crossbow, at least from a mechanics perceptive.

The developers have said there will be a new set of playtest classes within a week or two. The Crossbow Character should hold you mechanically until then.

I'm actually trying out the Gunslinger in a game already. I'm enjoying it so far and do see some of the limitations and problems with the current design. I do see some interesting potential for the build though.

I don't think the stand and shoot character would work too well with it so far but a mobile attack build could be interesting with it.

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