Three cheers for the labor movement


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Scarab Sages

Do you like weekends?

Do you like being safe at work?

Do you think an eight hour workday and paid overtime is just?

Do you think child labor is bad?

Then join me in lifting a glass for the US Labor movement. And remember that they're on our side.

Liberty's Edge

I'll drink to them...

The Exchange

They were good at a time, much like armed rebellion, but both are potentially dangerous to our society today

Liberty's Edge

Andrew R wrote:
They were good at a time, much like armed rebellion, but both are potentially dangerous to our society today

Corporate Greed is dangerous to our society.

Unions didn't crash our economy. Unregulated Banksters did.
Unions didn't devastate the Gulf of Mexico. An unregulated corporation in search of a few extra bucks did that.

Strong Unions are a much-needed power check on Corporations, and they prevent a wealthy few from acting like modern-day Robber Barons.

Strong (and enforced) regulation would also be nice, but we don't have that. And we're unlikely to ever get that, since most of our politcians are in the pockets of...Corporations. And now thanks to the Supreme Court, Corporations can freely buy our elections.

But, yeah. It sounds like the real problems of our society stem from overpaid, underworked teachers...


Andrew R wrote:
They were good at a time, much like armed rebellion, but both are potentially dangerous to our society today

What a terribly crafted analogy. In what possible way can you support your offensive, reactionary platitude? I'm honestly intrigued, politics aside.

Zo


Coming from a centre right socialist, unionised, Country that didn't experience the Global Financial Crisis that has one of the strongest and best performing economies in the world... I say yay for the Australian Labor movement.

Regulated banking and the Union movement and a left leaning government didn't bankrupt Australia.


There is a big difference between corporate unions and government unions. I like the first (even though they do have problems) but hate the second. But my opinion might be colored by the area in which I live.

The Exchange

DigMarx wrote:
Andrew R wrote:
They were good at a time, much like armed rebellion, but both are potentially dangerous to our society today

What a terribly crafted analogy. In what possible way can you support your offensive, reactionary platitude? I'm honestly intrigued, politics aside.

Zo

I find it offensive to be forced to pay a protection racket in order to hold a job. I find it offensive that the worst workers i have ever witnessed were protected time after time by union thuggery. I find it offensive that my hard earned dollars are stolen pay check after pay check to fund the democrat party.

Unions ONCE did something good, today they drive up costs and protect the dead weight workers,

The Exchange

Heymitch wrote:
Andrew R wrote:
They were good at a time, much like armed rebellion, but both are potentially dangerous to our society today

Corporate Greed is dangerous to our society.

Unions didn't crash our economy. Unregulated Banksters did.
Unions didn't devastate the Gulf of Mexico. An unregulated corporation in search of a few extra bucks did that.

Strong Unions are a much-needed power check on Corporations, and they prevent a wealthy few from acting like modern-day Robber Barons.

Strong (and enforced) regulation would also be nice, but we don't have that. And we're unlikely to ever get that, since most of our politcians are in the pockets of...Corporations. And now thanks to the Supreme Court, Corporations can freely buy our elections.

But, yeah. It sounds like the real problems of our society stem from overpaid, underworked teachers...

The gulf disaster stems partially from enviromental idiots driving offshore drilling into waters so deep that it is difficult to work on them. Unions have contributed to the woes of the auto industry that required BILLIONS to save from suicide by over compensated workers, including managment of course. Now that they are making a profit, before paying back "loans", they are already talking bonuses!!!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

How many large corporations use unions?
Auto workers, yeah, but Citi-corp, or American Express? Or any other major financial corporation? Or even a large Technology Corp, like Microsoft? Google?
Is there a Accountants Local 301?
Or a HTML Programmers Local 150?

The idea that unions protect against corporate greed is BS.
They are no longer needed or relevant.

The Exchange

Not to mention the big issue right now is public sector unions, not uaw or grociers. They are not fighting "big business" they are fighting US, the tax payers, and our bankrupting state governments......


Kryzbyn wrote:

How many large corporations use unions?

Auto workers, yeah, but Citi-corp, or American Express? Or any other major financial corporation? Or even a large Technology Corp, like Microsoft? Google?
Is there a Accountants Local 301?
Or a HTML Programmers Local 150?

The idea that unions protect against corporate greed is BS.
They are no longer needed or relevant.

With regard to financial institutions, amongst the bunch of documents they have you sign under having read and acknowledge the annual code of conduct updates, any whiff or breath of 'union' in said context will give them grounds to fire you at-will. That's why they're practically non-existent in that sector.


I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.


Heymitch wrote:
I'll drink to them...

No, in this case I won’t join you in drink but count me as a friend.

I like all the things you mention but I strongly disagree that forced union payment keep me from working on Saturday or Sunday if I choose not to do so.

Liberty's Edge

Andrew R wrote:
The gulf disaster stems partially from enviromental idiots driving offshore drilling into waters so deep that it is difficult to work on them.

Yes! Blame the environmentalists for BP's Gulf Oil Disaster! That's classic!

Do you have any CDs of your stand-up routine available for sale? Just wondering.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Heymitch wrote:
Andrew R wrote:
The gulf disaster stems partially from enviromental idiots driving offshore drilling into waters so deep that it is difficult to work on them.

Yes! Blame the environmentalists for BP's Gulf Oil Disaster! That's classic!

Do you have any CDs of your stand-up routine available for sale? Just wondering.

Yeah it wasn't the evironmentalists.

It was the lobbyists on their behalf.


Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.

It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.


Us has the most productive workers in the world.
Real average earnings in the US have fallen since 1970.

Citigroup Said to Use More Stock for Investment Banker Bonuses.

Nuff said.


Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.

Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)


Matthew Trent wrote:

Do you like weekends?

Do you like being safe at work?

Do you think an eight hour workday and paid overtime is just?

Do you think child labor is bad?

Then join me in lifting a glass for the US Labor movement. And remember that they're on our side.

Hip hip hooray!

Hip hip hooray!

Hip hip hooray!

I'll pass on the drink, however, and break out my pipe.


Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)

Slash his bike tires!


Urizen wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)
Slash his bike tires!

Don't worry. I'm on it. I'll also attach a "Whedon rules" sign on his bike afterward.


Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community.

I think the rebuttal to that would be that corporations haven't created those things -- people have.

Garydee wrote:
Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.

Corporations are a legal construct. Sometimes they produce good outcomes. Other times, not so much. But calling people delusional is just plain rude.

P.S. I'm learning (albeit slowly) that if I find myself typing things like "you people," I'd be better served by taking a time out.

The Exchange

Garydee wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)
Slash his bike tires!
Don't worry. I'm on it. I'll also attach a "Whedon rules" sign on his bike afterward.

Did you also remember to plaster it with the "I <3 Alton Brown" stickers?


Crimson Jester wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)
Slash his bike tires!
Don't worry. I'm on it. I'll also attach a "Whedon rules" sign on his bike afterward.
Did you also remember to plaster it with the "I <3 Alton Brown" stickers?

And tag it with spraypaint matching the color of Facebook blue.

The Exchange

Urizen wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)
Slash his bike tires!
Don't worry. I'm on it. I'll also attach a "Whedon rules" sign on his bike afterward.
Did you also remember to plaster it with the "I <3 Alton Brown" stickers?
And tag it with spraypaint matching the color of Facebook blue.

I knew something else needed to be done!


bugleyman wrote:

But calling people delusional is just plain rude.

Edit. Dude, you're not worth my time.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)
Slash his bike tires!
Don't worry. I'm on it. I'll also attach a "Whedon rules" sign on his bike afterward.
Did you also remember to plaster it with the "I <3 Alton Brown" stickers?

Anyone know what color is the opposite of Facebook blue? Just curious.

The Exchange

Freehold DM wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Garydee wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.
It seems that, once again, we are in opposition to each other. It is alright. Just one more thing to argue over as we have our climactic duel on the bridge of the SSD Executor to determine who gets to be Gary.
Don't make me whip out the Joss Whedon lightsabers on you. ;)
Slash his bike tires!
Don't worry. I'm on it. I'll also attach a "Whedon rules" sign on his bike afterward.
Did you also remember to plaster it with the "I <3 Alton Brown" stickers?
Anyone know what color is the opposite of Facebook blue? Just curious.

Cherry red?


Garydee wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

But calling people delusional is just plain rude.

Edit. Dude, you're not worth my time.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I find it a little ironic that you're apparently harboring a grudge because I've in the past done what you just did. In any case, I wasn't fishing for a fight.

The Exchange

Can't we all just get along?

The Exchange

:D

The Exchange

Come on guys hugs all around!??!?


Heymitch wrote:
I'll drink to them...

Hear, hear.


Crimson Jester wrote:
Can't we all just get along?

I had hoped including things like "I'm learning (albeit slowly)" (implying I myself am guilty of doing the same thing, and have been slow to learn from it) would have made for a conciliatory tone.

Sadly, it does not appear so. :/


Concessions? That's anti-prideful. No-one does that! That'd be like minus 326 Internet points! It's right there next to not acknowledging irony. Or milking dead horses for the glue with the grip of an IRS agent.

Unpossible!

I'd go with the emoticon. ;-)


It's like a locked thread, when you're ready to post.

The Exchange

bugleyman wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
Can't we all just get along?

I had hoped including things like "I'm learning (albeit slowly)" (implying I myself am guilty of doing the same thing, and have been slow to learn from it) would have made for a conciliatory tone.

Sadly, it does not appear so. :/

it is the net, we all make mistakes of 'tone.'

The Exchange

Alanis Morrissette wrote:

It's like a locked thread, when you're ready to post.

How Ironic.

The Exchange

Or is that moronic?


I'm tone deaf.

Spoiler:
And I have the hearing aids to prove it.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012

Crimson Jester wrote:
Or is that moronic?

You know what isn't moronic? Pie.


Matthew Trent wrote:
Do you like weekends?

Most countries don't have weekends...though because of Big Unions most companies can't afford to be open on the weekend...sucks for us who actualy like working six days a week...

Matthew Trent wrote:
Do you like being safe at work?

That is now regulated by the goverment...while Unions might have got it mandated...no need for them now really.

Matthew Trent wrote:
Do you think an eight hour workday and paid overtime is just?

Yes...than again because companies get raped by big Unions they don't have the money to pay overtime

Matthew Trent wrote:
Do you think child labor is bad?

That is now regulated by the goverment...while Unions might have got it mandated...no need for them now really.

Matthew Trent wrote:
Then join me in lifting a glass for the US Labor movement. And remember that they're on our side.

I actualy never held a Union job before...and you know I like that choice...but it gets really harder when Unions are taking that choice away from us to get jobs...as they have been allowed by very lient laws to force themselves into the work place.

So yes I'll raise a galss to their past accomplishment...but sorta ask them to simmmer down a bit and stop it with these power grabs...thank you.


John Kretzer wrote:
Matthew Trent wrote:
Do you like weekends?
Most countries don't have weekends...though because of Big Unions most companies can't afford to be open on the weekend...sucks for us who actualy like working six days a week...

You do realize that you are in the EXTREME minority on this angle?

Matthew Trent wrote:
Do you think an eight hour workday and paid overtime is just?
Yes...than again because companies get raped by big Unions they don't have the money to pay overtime

This varies wildly by vocation and organization.


Personally, I'd rather work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. So do I like 8 hour days? Nope.


pres man wrote:
Personally, I'd rather work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. So do I like 8 hour days? Nope.

Again, this can only be pulled off in certain vocations. It wouldn't fly at my job.


Freehold DM wrote:
pres man wrote:
Personally, I'd rather work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. So do I like 8 hour days? Nope.
Again, this can only be pulled off in certain vocations. It wouldn't fly at my job.

When I worked at the airport I got to do 4 10-hour days and it was wicked awesome.

Then management came up with some ridiculous argument that the customer objected to paying 2 hours at overtime rate (even though I wasn't getting paid at overtime rate) and I was forced back to a 5 8-hour day week. THEN, after I'd moved to New Hampshire and was commuting to Boston, I'd show up and find out that I had to stay for 10-hour days whenever they wanted.

That job was one of the main reasons that I started working at UPS and became active in the Teamsters.

Sovereign Court

I worked a summer doing grave yard shift at a non-unionized meatpacking plant back in high school. Sucked so hard I turned around my GPA and went to college. I've been (moderately) pro union since.

I'll raise a glass.


Matthew Trent wrote:

Do you like weekends?

Do you like being safe at work?

Do you think an eight hour workday and paid overtime is just?

Do you think child labor is bad?

Then join me in lifting a glass for the US Labor movement. And remember that they're on our side.

lifts glass

Hear, hear!

(I grew up in a coal-mining community where there were three pictures on the wall in nearly every living room: Jesus, FDR, and John L. Lewis. Without the early unions, my grandfather would have died a lot sooner than he did because of emphysema, so I have personal reasons to be grateful for early union accomplishments. I've since come to have a more nuanced view of current union actions, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their history.)


Garydee wrote:
I would hate to see a world without corporations. Look around and look at the cool gadgets, medicines, and technology that we have because of the "evil corporations". Even Paizo is a corporation and look what they have done for the gaming community. Some of you people really need to grow out of whatever indoctrination that you've been put through and start living in the real world.

"Believe corporations need some amount of regulation" =/= "corporations need to be abolished."

That's what living in the real world has taught me, anyway.

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