Pathways Free E-zine: (PoD) Coming March 1st


Product Discussion

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Dark_Mistress wrote:

My review

The mag was good

The smoking hot, funny, super smart, sexy chick you got to do reviews at the end was amazing.

The end.

Some people (not me) might call that a biased review :)

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Yes. Yes she was.


Dark_Mistress wrote:

My review

The mag was good

The smoking hot, funny, super smart, sexy chick you got to do reviews at the end was amazing.

The end.

Agreed. And she had excellent taste for her #1 pick.

Liberty's Edge

Lisa Stevens wrote:

I was surprised there was actually a third party publisher who didnt sell on Paizo.com. That just seems insane to me!

Lisa

Is there a hurdle of some kind that might make a Third Party Publisher not want to (or be able to) sell on Paizo.com, even though they do sell on other PDF sites like DriveThru etc?

Liberty's Edge

Lyingbastard wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:

My review

The mag was good

The smoking hot, funny, super smart, sexy chick you got to do reviews at the end was amazing.

The end.

Agreed. And she had excellent taste for her #1 pick.

Heh ... her #9 pick was pretty spot on as well! :)

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Marc Radle wrote:
Is there a hurdle of some kind that might make a Third Party Publisher not want to (or be able to) sell on Paizo.com, even though they do sell on other PDF sites like DriveThru etc?

Short answers: money and convenience. You get a 5% better rate at DriveThruRPG/RPGNow if you sell your pdfs only through them (and your own website). A publisher has to weigh the question of "Is this other site's sales going to make up for the loss of 5% revenue?" as well as "Will the customer's of site B goto DriveThruRPG/RPGNow and buy my PDF there if it is not available at site B?" Mind you, Paizo pays 10% better than DriveThru if you sell at both. So it would make sense to drive traffic to Paizo than it does to DriveThru, but there are other things to consider as well. If I need money (like for an immediate print run, this happened to me twice last year), I can instantly withdraw it from Drivethru. I can't do that with Paizo. When a month ends, DriveThru pays to paypal instantly. I have to wait about a month for a check from Paizo to come in (requiring a business bank account to deposit it). Each publisher has to decide these for themselves.

Second answer is convenience. Putting up your products takes a little time. Putting it up on two difference sites takes twice as long. Then you have to drive traffic to both sites. And while that is not a real big deal, it is something to consider.

Then there's the Paizo Store Blog. I've noticed that PDFs mentioned on Paizo's store blog do better on Paizo than on DriveThruRPG. Like 2:1 better on Paizo. But if it doesn't get mentioned on Paizo's store blog, it does better on DriveThru. Like between 2:1 and 5:1 better on DriveThru. These are just my numbers, but from a few words here and there from other publishers, I'm guessing they have noticed a similar trend as well.

These are just a few reasons. There are plenty of other reasons and each publisher has to decide for themselves.


Marc Radle wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

I was surprised there was actually a third party publisher who didnt sell on Paizo.com. That just seems insane to me!

Lisa

Is there a hurdle of some kind that might make a Third Party Publisher not want to (or be able to) sell on Paizo.com, even though they do sell on other PDF sites like DriveThru etc?

Its called a DrivethruRpg exclusivity contract.

Paizo Employee CEO

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Short answers: money and convenience. You get a 5% better rate at DriveThruRPG/RPGNow if you sell your pdfs only through them (and your own website). A publisher has to weigh the question of "Is this other site's sales going to make up for the loss of 5% revenue?" as well as "Will the customer's of site B goto DriveThruRPG/RPGNow and buy my PDF there if it is not available at site B?" Mind you, Paizo pays 10% better than DriveThru if you sell at both. So it would make sense to drive traffic to Paizo than it does to DriveThru, but there are other things to consider as well. If I need money (like for an immediate print run, this happened to me twice last year), I can instantly withdraw it from Drivethru. I can't do that with Paizo. When a month ends, DriveThru pays to paypal instantly. I have to wait about a month for a check from Paizo to come in (requiring a business bank account to deposit it). Each publisher has to decide these for themselves.

Btw, we can also make a payment to PayPal. Just ask Chris Self to set this up for you if that is more convenient.

Quote:
Then there's the Paizo Store Blog. I've noticed that PDFs mentioned on Paizo's store blog do better on Paizo than on DriveThruRPG. Like 2:1 better on Paizo. But if it doesn't get mentioned on Paizo's store blog, it does better on DriveThru. Like between 2:1 and 5:1 better on DriveThru. These are just my numbers, but from a few words here and there from other publishers, I'm guessing they have noticed a similar trend as well.

It is hard to find time for all of the blogs. If a new PDF release comes out the same week that we are shipping a bunch of new Paizo products, then it gets lost in the shuffle. However, if it happens on a slow release week when we are just begging for something to blog, then it can be much easier to fit in.

One thing that Jeff has started to do is include the new Pathfinder compatible PDFs in the weekly email list of new products. This is much easier to find the room for, and hopefully that is helping to drive some traffic to the new third party PDFs.

-Lisa


Lisa Stevens wrote:
Btw, we can also make a payment to PayPal. Just ask Chris Self to set this up for you if that is more convenient.

That is news to me. It's not necessarily more convenient for us than a physical check (though it might arrive sooner than a check). What is convenient is the fact that at DriveThruRPG, if I need some cash to pay an artist or for an ad, and I need it right now, I can cash out today - completely, or only the amount I need at the moment.

Lisa Stevens wrote:

It is hard to find time for all of the blogs. If a new PDF release comes out the same week that we are shipping a bunch of new Paizo products, then it gets lost in the shuffle. However, if it happens on a slow release week when we are just begging for something to blog, then it can be much easier to fit in.

One thing that Jeff has started to do is include the new Pathfinder compatible PDFs in the weekly email list of new products. This is much easier to find the room for, and...

That's understandable, and most of us do understand that it is a privilege to have our 3PP stuff pimped by Paizo, it isn't a right. Paizo's job is to sell Paizo's products, after all.

That said, the weekly e-mail mention but no store blog mention doesn't quite balance out. :D I think, though, that if more folks actually browsed the store or the forums even, it would make a difference. Instead, I am left feeling like some folks don't think Paizo sells anything but Paizo produced material.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Then there's the Paizo Store Blog. I've noticed that PDFs mentioned on Paizo's store blog do better on Paizo than on DriveThruRPG. Like 2:1 better on Paizo. But if it doesn't get mentioned on Paizo's store blog, it does better on DriveThru. Like between 2:1 and 5:1 better on DriveThru. These are just my numbers, but from a few words here and there from other publishers, I'm guessing they have noticed a similar trend as well.

We are experiencing this ourselves, right now. Granted, DriveThruRPG was also running their GM's Day Sale - and I didn't set up the sale anywhere else this year - but the Inkantations PDF is selling over 12:1 better at DriveThru than here at Paizo right now.

I feel like part of the problem is potential customers don't dig deep enough into the store sometimes, or don't even look beyond Paizo products. Tomorrow marks the 2nd anniversary of 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming, and I'm still running into people here on the forums that have never heard of us or our products - and that's with all the wonderful pimpage Paizo has done for us in the store blog and such.

Dark Archive

Well I imagine part of it, and maybe a big part is. People come to paizo looking for paizo products. While Drivethru has no products of their own so people that go there are specifically looking for 3pp stuff. While I imagine most of the regulars of Paizo knows it sells a lot of stuff, i wonder how many new people are aware of it.

I mean if you asked a regular person in a game shop if they knew Paizo was a online game store for lots of stuff. I wonder how many would say yes.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Btw, we can also make a payment to PayPal. Just ask Chris Self to set this up for you if that is more convenient.

Really!?! Note to self! I'll do this tonight!

Lisa Stevens wrote:
It is hard to find time for all of the blogs.

I hope you didn't take my words as a complaint. Paizo is wonderful! Like I said in Pathways: you guys do far more than I could have expected and better than any other licenser that I know of.

I was just pointing out the power of your blog. It really makes the difference in whether or not a product sells well in Paizo. Just stating a reality.


Lisa Stevens wrote:

Btw, we can also make a payment to PayPal. Just ask Chris Self to set this up for you if that is more convenient.

Any chance of making Paypal an option for purchases through the online store or subscriptions?

Paizo Employee CEO

Urizen wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

Btw, we can also make a payment to PayPal. Just ask Chris Self to set this up for you if that is more convenient.

Any chance of making Paypal an option for purchases through the online store or subscriptions?

That is a whole other ball of wax that Vic has went on about at length in the past. I don't have a link, but you can probably find it by searching. PayPal's terms of use as a business make it pretty much impossible for us to use them. If they ever change their terms of use, we would definitely consider it since we get this request a lot.

-Lisa


Lisa Stevens wrote:

It is hard to find time for all of the blogs. If a new PDF release comes out the same week that we are shipping a bunch of new Paizo products, then it gets lost in the shuffle. However, if it happens on a slow release week when we are just begging for something to blog, then it can be much easier to fit in.

One thing that Jeff has started to do is include the new Pathfinder compatible PDFs in the weekly email list of new products. This is much easier to find the room for, and...

Since we have you for a second Lisa, do you think Paizo will, sometime in the future, build a more "robust" back end for 3PP selling on the website? That is one of the things that OBS does very well and is very helpful to me. Just wondering?

Paizo Employee CEO

LMPjr007 wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

It is hard to find time for all of the blogs. If a new PDF release comes out the same week that we are shipping a bunch of new Paizo products, then it gets lost in the shuffle. However, if it happens on a slow release week when we are just begging for something to blog, then it can be much easier to fit in.

One thing that Jeff has started to do is include the new Pathfinder compatible PDFs in the weekly email list of new products. This is much easier to find the room for, and...

Since we have you for a second Lisa, do you think Paizo will, sometime in the future, build a more "robust" back end for 3PP selling on the website? That is one of the things that OBS does very well and is very helpful to me. Just wondering?

Hey Louis:

I was just talking about this at work yesterday. :) The big problem is that One Book Shelf does nothing else other than sell PDFs and they are very good at what they do. Paizo, on the other hand, is a publisher as well as a full-service gaming store site. I am not sure we will ever get to the point where we have as many bells and whistles as One Book Shelf mainly because they are very focused and we, by definition, aren't.

Now that said, I think there are things we could do to make things easier. We've talked about them for a while. The problem has been manpower. As you probably know, we have been looking for some specific programmers to hire for quite some time. Once we get them hired, some of the things on the to do list might make it to the top. Until then, I doubt they will ever make it to the top of the list over other projects that are vital to Paizo's future.

-Lisa


hunter1828 wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Then there's the Paizo Store Blog. I've noticed that PDFs mentioned on Paizo's store blog do better on Paizo than on DriveThruRPG. Like 2:1 better on Paizo. But if it doesn't get mentioned on Paizo's store blog, it does better on DriveThru. Like between 2:1 and 5:1 better on DriveThru. These are just my numbers, but from a few words here and there from other publishers, I'm guessing they have noticed a similar trend as well.

We are experiencing this ourselves, right now. Granted, DriveThruRPG was also running their GM's Day Sale - and I didn't set up the sale anywhere else this year - but the Inkantations PDF is selling over 12:1 better at DriveThru than here at Paizo right now.

I feel like part of the problem is potential customers don't dig deep enough into the store sometimes, or don't even look beyond Paizo products. Tomorrow marks the 2nd anniversary of 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming, and I'm still running into people here on the forums that have never heard of us or our products - and that's with all the wonderful pimpage Paizo has done for us in the store blog and such.

Well, there are eight large-font categories for Pathfinder products, and you're not in them. I'm obsessive enough to read all the way to the end, but that's just me. If they simply moved Pathfinder Compatible Products up to a ninth large-font category, it could make a big difference.


Lisa Stevens wrote:

I was surprised there was actually a third party publisher who didnt sell on Paizo.com. That just seems insane to me!

Lisa

We like to think of ourselves as eccentric. The reality is that when I started Purple Duck Games I signed exclusively with Rpgnow. I buy the majority of PDFs from them and it never even jogged in my naive mind that I should get my products on the Paizo store. When my contract comes up for extension or renewal I will need to investigate that option.

In the mean time, we will continue to develop 3pp PFRPG material and make it available at the OBS sites.


I prefer to buy from Paizo. Paizo material and 3pp. I've had issues with RPGNow which, if not serious, were annoying. Secondarily, I like having my downloads available, for the most part, on one site (Paizo). I have followed links from the message boards here to other sites, but unless I absolutely have to have it now (which hasn't happened yet) or it's not going to appear on Paizo (which has) I buy here. If it is going to show on Paizo later then other sites, I wait. Currently I have 18 Paizo downloads (counting the one dl and 1 per chapter dl as one thing) and 35 3pp downloads in "my downloads" at Paizo. I have 4 items from other sites. Paizo seems to be the route to my wallet. I doubt I'm alone in this.

*edit* Ahem, 37 3pp. Sorry, just added...


Reading through the pdf right now and am loving it! Steven, the design is killer! And I think I'm going to check out Tricky Owlbear's [u]Forgotten Foes[/u] - sounds like something I can really use in my game.


hedgeknight wrote:
Reading through the pdf right now and am loving it! Steven, the design is killer! And I think I'm going to check out Tricky Owlbear's [u]Forgotten Foes[/u] - sounds like something I can really use in my game.

I always enjoy reading interviews but being the interviewee made me a bit nervous. Glad someone understood my gibberish! ;) hedgeknight, I don't think you'll be disappointed with Forgotten Foes.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

I liked what Rite did with Pathways so much JBE just signed up for 6 months of advertising. This is an awesome product that we want to support. So yes, did stick my +2 flaming crowbar into the advanced tight wallet and defeated it. But it was Rite Publishing that got some treasure. ;)

@hedgeknight - Forgotten Foes is a good book.


I would like to get a chance to touch base with some of the publishers that I missed, Adamant, alluria, scortched urf, avalon, headless hydra, zombie sky press and a few more. There is alot of gold in them there hills!

For now though I will be doing some interview with Tim Hitchcock in the next issue, with a cover image by Eric Lofgren who is doing a nice dragon for us.

And thanks to all our advertisers.


TrickyOwlbear wrote:
hedgeknight wrote:
Reading through the pdf right now and am loving it! Steven, the design is killer! And I think I'm going to check out Tricky Owlbear's [u]Forgotten Foes[/u] - sounds like something I can really use in my game.
I always enjoy reading interviews but being the interviewee made me a bit nervous. Glad someone understood my gibberish! ;) hedgeknight, I don't think you'll be disappointed with Forgotten Foes.

I think so too - would really like to get the print edition - any idea when we'll see that?


hedgeknight wrote:
TrickyOwlbear wrote:
hedgeknight wrote:
Reading through the pdf right now and am loving it! Steven, the design is killer! And I think I'm going to check out Tricky Owlbear's [u]Forgotten Foes[/u] - sounds like something I can really use in my game.
I always enjoy reading interviews but being the interviewee made me a bit nervous. Glad someone understood my gibberish! ;) hedgeknight, I don't think you'll be disappointed with Forgotten Foes.
I think so too - would really like to get the print edition - any idea when we'll see that?

I really hope it will be soon. Lulu did not do well by us (3 copies and still not correct!) so we're putting our eggs in RPGNow's new service. However, that preview copy did not come back looking so good either. I hope the issues will be resolved shortly.


TrickyOwlbear wrote:
I really hope it will be soon. Lulu did not do well by us (3 copies and still not correct!) so we're putting our eggs in RPGNow's new service. However, that preview copy did not come back looking so good either. I hope the issues will be resolved shortly.

Threadjack: Did you have an issue with the bleed on the RPGNow POD versions?


LMPjr007 wrote:
TrickyOwlbear wrote:
I really hope it will be soon. Lulu did not do well by us (3 copies and still not correct!) so we're putting our eggs in RPGNow's new service. However, that preview copy did not come back looking so good either. I hope the issues will be resolved shortly.
Threadjack: Did you have an issue with the bleed on the RPGNow POD versions?

Yeah, some of the illustrations were just bad. Also, the logo of the book had heavy bleed but it was around the title and not inside it (like filled into the box that you would move the logo around inside with your mouse, if that makes sense). The company logos were the opposite in that you could see the box around them and there was white between the logos and the perimeter of the box. Very strange.


TrickyOwlbear wrote:
Yeah, some of the illustrations were just bad. Also, the logo of the book had heavy bleed but it was around the title and not inside it (like filled into the box that you would move the logo around inside with your mouse, if that makes sense). The company logos were the opposite in that you could see the box around them and there was white between the logos and the perimeter of the box. Very strange.

I had issues in B&W and I am just wondering will those issue be the same in color. I will be testing that out soon.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

Btw, we can also make a payment to PayPal. Just ask Chris Self to set this up for you if that is more convenient.

Any chance of making Paypal an option for purchases through the online store or subscriptions?

That is a whole other ball of wax that Vic has went on about at length in the past. I don't have a link, but you can probably find it by searching. PayPal's terms of use as a business make it pretty much impossible for us to use them. If they ever change their terms of use, we would definitely consider it since we get this request a lot.

-Lisa

I don't suppose there's a way paypal (even at another site) could be used to buy gift certificates for Paizo? I have paypal cash to blow and would rather spend it directly at Paizo than on other sites that sell Paizo products.

Paizo Employee CEO

Purple Duck Games wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

I was surprised there was actually a third party publisher who didnt sell on Paizo.com. That just seems insane to me!

Lisa

We like to think of ourselves as eccentric. The reality is that when I started Purple Duck Games I signed exclusively with Rpgnow. I buy the majority of PDFs from them and it never even jogged in my naive mind that I should get my products on the Paizo store. When my contract comes up for extension or renewal I will need to investigate that option.

In the mean time, we will continue to develop 3pp PFRPG material and make it available at the OBS sites.

Sounds good. When your exclusivity is up, feel free to email Jeff Alvarez to set up an account.

Btw, Steve Wieck over at One Bookshelf has been very gracious in the past and allowed folks out of their exclusivity contract. You could always ask Steve.

-Lisa

Dreamscarred Press

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Purple Duck Games wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

I was surprised there was actually a third party publisher who didnt sell on Paizo.com. That just seems insane to me!

Lisa

We like to think of ourselves as eccentric. The reality is that when I started Purple Duck Games I signed exclusively with Rpgnow. I buy the majority of PDFs from them and it never even jogged in my naive mind that I should get my products on the Paizo store. When my contract comes up for extension or renewal I will need to investigate that option.

In the mean time, we will continue to develop 3pp PFRPG material and make it available at the OBS sites.

Sounds good. When your exclusivity is up, feel free to email Jeff Alvarez to set up an account.

Btw, Steve Wieck over at One Bookshelf has been very gracious in the past and allowed folks out of their exclusivity contract. You could always ask Steve.

-Lisa

I know that one option that was offered a while back was to have two separate agreements - anything already on the OBS sites for the exclusive agreement remained exclusive until that term was up. Anything released after signing a non-exclusive agreement could be posted elsewhere.

I never went exclusive with OBS, but I know they offered that option to quite a few other publishers, so as Lisa suggests, contact the guys at OBS and see.

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