Soothsayer's Raiment


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Soothsayer's Raiment is a specific armor in the APG. Specifics about it follow.

spoiler:

Pg. 286
This +1 chainmail is attuned to a particular oracular mystery and
contains a revelation associated with that mystery (see the oracle
class description). While wearing the armor, an oracle has access
to that revelation and may use it as if she had it as a normal class
feature. The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the
armor; for example, a soothsayer’s raiment (battlecry) is only usable
by an oracle of battle. If the wearer already has that revelation and
the revelation gives an ability with a limited number of uses per
day, the oracle can use that ability one additional time per day.
This ability has no effect if worn by a non-oracle.
For divination spells with a percentage-based chance of
success (such as augury and divination), the wearer’s chance
increases by +5.

So here's the potential problem I see. Based on the wording, it appears that an oracle can use this armor to get access to revelations that would otherwise be level-restricted, and beyond the oracle's grasp.

The section about revelations under the oracle class guide does have level restricted revelations. The phrasing used to restrict them is as follows:
"You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation."

Since the armor bypasses the selection process, the level limit never comes into play.

Contrast this with the Ring of Revelation on page 293 of the APG.
It has an additional selection of text that is not present in the Soothsayer's Raiment section.
"The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and must
meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself"

I would assume that it was an unintentional error, and needs to be corrected in future printings/releases of the APG.

Before I posted, I performed a rules search and found no results for Sooothsayer's Raiment

Dark Archive

I'd say you would be right. It would have a random mystery that is hardcoded into the armor, and grants it regardless of level. Because of that it is a pecific armor than probably should be hardwired to be unchangeable. Since the ring allows you choose it of course has a level restriction on it. The Chainmail, cannot change what it grants.


The ring doesn't allow you to choose any more than the armor does.

I'd assume the text was erroneously omitted from the armor writeup.

Dark Archive

Are wrote:

The ring doesn't allow you to choose any more than the armor does.

I'd assume the text was erroneously omitted from the armor writeup.

Sorry didn't have my APG next to me at the time, if that is the case, then yeah, level requirement would probably been ommitted by memory lapse. Its possible two different people wrote up the items and one thought that level appropriateness was implied.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

the rings are staggered lesser , greater, and superior.
the armor doesn't have any kind of variance, and just says it grants a revelation.
if its a revelation the character has, they can use it one extra time per day.

it does seem to be able to grant out-of-level revelations, so long as you have the Mystery.
( which also opens it up to Use Magic Devicers who Emulate the Mystery )

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Seraphimpunk wrote:
Use Magic Devicers who Emulate the Mystery

It wouldn't help as UMD doesn't grant class features, just trick the item into thinking you have the class feature. The item doesn't grant the Revelation, but rather allow you to use it as if you had it. If you are not an Oracle you can't use it.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

UMD allows you to emulate the class feature.
the items states that it lets you use the revelation if you have the appropriate Mystery class feature.

ipso facto: use magic device.

Quote:
This +1 chainmail is attuned to a particular oracular mystery and contains a revelation associated with that mystery (see oracle). Its design and coloration are typically suggestive of its related mystery. While wearing the armor, an oracle has access to that revelation and may use it as if she had it as a normal class feature. The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the armor; for example, a soothsayer's raiment (battlecry) is only usable by an oracle of battle. If the wearer already has that revelation and the revelation grants an ability with a limited number of uses per day, the oracle can use that ability one additional time per day. This ability has no effect if the armor is worn by a non-oracle.
emulate a class feature wrote:
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

maybe i'm reading it wrong? i remember the argument being put forward two gen cons ago that a rogue with a ring of revelation could use UMD to activate it. I was of the opinion that it wouldn't work.

but the soothsayer's raiment lets the wearer use the revelation as if she had it as a normal class feature, all it requires is the appropriate Mystery. and you can Emulate the Mystery. which wouldn't normally help, because it doesn't let you use the class feature of the other class. But this armor GIVES you the class feature , as long as you emulate the Mystery.


UMD looks like it works. SeraphimPunk even posted rules specifically pertaining to it. While the UMD check doesn't actually give you the oracle's mystery class feature, the armor itself gives you the revelation. If the armor simply said, "You can use your oracle's mystery class feature as if you had the given revelation", you'd be screwed, as you don't have the class feature to modify.

RAI probably didn't intend this to work, but who can say?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So i wanted to ask about this. I just noticed recently playing through a society scenario the existence of this item. My question is - Can the same effect be used by Shamans. It stats RAW Oracle. But Shamans have the same mysteries as well.

Thanks for the input!

blahpers wrote:

UMD looks like it works. SeraphimPunk even posted rules specifically pertaining to it. While the UMD check doesn't actually give you the oracle's mystery class feature, the armor itself gives you the revelation. If the armor simply said, "You can use your oracle's mystery class feature as if you had the given revelation", you'd be screwed, as you don't have the class feature to modify.

RAI probably didn't intend this to work, but who can say?

Scarab Sages

It states oracle, so no.

Also the item grants a revelation, which oracles get and which shamans do not get - even if the hexes they can choose from their spirit animal can be similar.

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