I'm having a disagreement with my DM about the craft DCs and Caster Level requirements for Wondrous Items. I think I'm on the right, the side of the official FAQ and SKR's comments in a long thread from a little while back.
Where we disagree is that he believes the CL listed in a magic item's description is the hard-line, minimum level you need to be to create this item. I tried to point out where he was mistaken with the above cited sources, and he has come up with the following "compromise": the craft DC is still set by the CL listed at the top of the magic item, but if you don't meet that requirement the craft DC increases by 2 for every level you are short of it. Furthermore if you are more than 2 CLs from that "requirement" it is another +5 to the craft DC, so a 5th level wizard trying to craft a belt of strength +2 would have to roll against DC DC. No problem right? Oh but you can't take 10.
What do you think of these rules, and where might I find hard-fast evidence to the contrary if he won't accept the FAQ or developer's official answer as kosher? Was it ever stated by someone other than SKR in a thread how this is supposed to work?
If your GM isn't going to accept Sean's word (and an official FAQ), then I don't think any of us here will be able to say or point out anything which will convince your GM otherwise.
Perhaps another way to go about this is to ask your DM why he/she does not like the idea of magic item creation. From your description it appears that is the case. I could argue that the CL could be set as a soft requirement and that there is a +5 to the DC for not meeting it... but by adding an additional +2 for every level you fall short on top of that is the DM saying he wants full control on magic items beyond basic stuff that is way below your level.
Using your rule a 3rd level wizard making a 1st level pearl of power would have a DC of 37 and that is just nuts for something that costs 250 GP to make.
Making it harder for a player to make items by raising the DC and not allowing a player to take 10 are fine house rules overall if the group wants to have them. This would fit well in a low magic world for example and make found magic items a little more special.
If the DM really want to control magic item creation to the point described above you are better off not taking the feats and going another route.
I'm having a disagreement with my DM about the craft DCs and Caster Level requirements for Wondrous Items. I think I'm on the right, the side of the official FAQ and SKR's comments in a long thread from a little while back.
Where we disagree is that he believes the CL listed in a magic item's description is the hard-line, minimum level you need to be to create this item. I tried to point out where he was mistaken with the above cited sources, and he has come up with the following "compromise": the craft DC is still set by the CL listed at the top of the magic item, but if you don't meet that requirement the craft DC increases by 2 for every level you are short of it. Furthermore if you are more than 2 CLs from that "requirement" it is another +5 to the craft DC, so a 5th level wizard trying to craft a belt of strength +2 would have to roll against DC DC. No problem right? Oh but you can't take 10.
What do you think of these rules, and where might I find hard-fast evidence to the contrary if he won't accept the FAQ or developer's official answer as kosher? Was it ever stated by someone other than SKR in a thread how this is supposed to work?
ermm... if he won't accept an faq or the developers answer as kosher you're out of luck . The entire reason that the dev had to weigh in (and the answer still needs clarification) is that the magic item creation rules are mubar.
As house rules go its not that bad for the vast majority of most items. If you want to make a pearl of power level 1 though, you may want to convince him that each pearl has its own caster level.
While i agree with a lot of things already stated in the post, the APG does say this under Magic Item descriptions (CL):
"The creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level"
but must doesn't really mean must as we've already established in another post.
IIRC, SKR's comments came before the release of the APG. Always go with the latest and greatest.
While i agree with a lot of things already stated in the post, the APG does say this under Magic Item descriptions (CL):
"The creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level"
but must doesn't really mean must as we've already established in another post.
IIRC, SKR's comments came before the release of the APG. Always go with the latest and greatest.
The APG magic items chapter says (on page 282), "The creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level." This contradicts the Core Rulebook. Which is correct?That line in the APG is an error. An item's caster level is not a prerequisite for item creation unless it is specifically mentioned in an item's Requirements line (for example, an amulet of natural armor).
(SKR 8/30/10)
–Sean K Reynolds (08/31/10)
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there is errata has been written about CL being a requirement
in creating an item.
It is in errata 2.1.
• Page 460—In the Magic Items Description section,
under Caster Level, delete the last sentence of the
second paragraph.
that is the line that mentions CL as a hard requirement in creating items. So CL is not a requirement in creating anymore. Only those things listed in the line @ the end of an items description are required. Generally these are the needed creation feats and spells used.
there is errata has been written about CL being a requirement
in creating an item.
It is in errata 2.1.
• Page 460—In the Magic Items Description section,
under Caster Level, delete the last sentence of the
second paragraph.
that is the line that mentions CL as a hard requirement in creating items. So CL is not a requirement in creating anymore. Only those things listed in the line @ the end of an items description are required. Generally these are the needed creation feats and spells used.
They really should update the PRD.
Silly question - if they're not requirements, what are they?
Silly question - if they're not requirements, what are they?
For most items they are guidelines to tell the GM what an 'average' example of that magic item's caster level is for adjudicating things such as dispel checks against them and such.
Silly question - if they're not requirements, what are they?
Its a requirement. You must have it. Or add 5 to the DC. \
I tried writing up the rules with different words tossed in to avoid confusion. People didn't like having to learn new words.
That is incorrect BNW, caster level is only a requirement if it appears on the Requirements line (such as for bracers of armor) or is otherwise specifically listed as such (such as with minimum caster level by plus for weapons and armor).
refer to the FAQ entry I posted above.
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Sorry Norse. They are not a requirement that needs to be filled.
In the Core Rulebook it used to say that they were a requirement in the beginning of the Magic Item section. Where it explains the basics of the magic item entries.
In the Creation section the same was not the case. Caster Level was not a requirement. Only those things that were specifically written in the "Requirement" line in an items stat block were required.
The errata cleared that up by taking the confusing text out of the earlier part.
CL is not a requirement. it is used only to determine saves and the DC to create it and another thing or two.
You do NOT need to be 8th level to create a headband of Int +2. You do NOT need to be 17th level to create a Pearl of Power level 1.
You DO need the proper Item Creation Feat (always) and the right spells, feats etc (or add +5 for each you do not have).
I was making fun of the poorly written rules. I'll write the jokes better next time.